Oversizing Oil Filter - any adverse effect?
06-15-06 | 11:08 AM
#1
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From: Kzoo, MI
Oversizing Oil Filter - any adverse effect?
been reading a lot at www.bobistheoilguy.com, how these chevy, toyota dudes are using huge filter and thereby increasing their sump capacity by 1 to 1.5 quarts.
any adverse effect of oversizing the oil filter in a S4 or S5?
what are the oversized filter options for s5?
any adverse effect of oversizing the oil filter in a S4 or S5?
what are the oversized filter options for s5?
06-15-06 | 11:30 AM
#2
The only disadvantage I can think of would be that you no longer utilize the OEM filter. There has been in depth discussion about the supriority of the Mazda filter over most aftermarkets.
Now, this may not be the case with the oversized filter being that most are produced for race applcations and thereby SHOULD have better filtering capability then a run-of-the-mill knock off filter - but this remains to be seen.
Try it and see how it works out.
One question though - a 1.5 quart addition is pretty large for just a filter, that thing must be massive. Where do you plan on relocating it in order to fit that monster in there?
Now, this may not be the case with the oversized filter being that most are produced for race applcations and thereby SHOULD have better filtering capability then a run-of-the-mill knock off filter - but this remains to be seen.
Try it and see how it works out.
One question though - a 1.5 quart addition is pretty large for just a filter, that thing must be massive. Where do you plan on relocating it in order to fit that monster in there?
06-15-06 | 01:15 PM
#4
Originally Posted by Trav
I'm curious what the real advantage would be?
Put them both on the stove at equal temperature and see which one takes longer to boil.
Its a simple principle. The more oil you have, the more time it has to heat up and the more time it can spend between the cooler and engine to shed heat.
06-15-06 | 02:09 PM
#5
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From: Kzoo, MI
more oil is better, right?
my interest is in pouring the entire 5 quarts and not have to sit on these bottles of leftover oils, fyi: I do not drive the sevens that much between winter here in MI and summer I end up sitting on 10w30 and 20w50 left overs.
no thing that big, I have purlators in my stock for accord, 14459s, but I also have 24458s which basically bigger version of the one I use, it fits fine in the OEM space,
yes, no arguing Mazda OEM filter is the best, but I am not using them.
classic, won't the rate of heat tfr from the cooler be dependent on the rate of flow of the oil, regardless of the sump quantity, once it has heat up?
my interest is in pouring the entire 5 quarts and not have to sit on these bottles of leftover oils, fyi: I do not drive the sevens that much between winter here in MI and summer I end up sitting on 10w30 and 20w50 left overs.
no thing that big, I have purlators in my stock for accord, 14459s, but I also have 24458s which basically bigger version of the one I use, it fits fine in the OEM space,
yes, no arguing Mazda OEM filter is the best, but I am not using them.
classic, won't the rate of heat tfr from the cooler be dependent on the rate of flow of the oil, regardless of the sump quantity, once it has heat up?
06-15-06 | 02:12 PM
#6
I'll argue against the superiority of Mazda filters anyday. That's a blanket statement. They are better than some and worse than others. I use only Wix filters. The Mazda filter definitely isn't superior to it. Whatever you do, don't use Fram!
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06-15-06 | 02:26 PM
#8
Grand Poobah of Torque
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From: Clermont, Florida
Diesel filters are usually 1-1.5 quarts large, PITA to change too. It has its advantages but I think the Mazda filter does the job quite well. If you are looking for a weak link in your oil system, look at the OE cooler -- there are several, much more capable choices if you are doing some serious track duty that will cool much better.
What proof do you have to support the WIX as being better than Mazda OE? I know Wix makes some good filters but I've never seen anyone compare them against the Mazda filter.
Originally Posted by rotarygod
I'll argue against the superiority of Mazda filters anyday. That's a blanket statement. They are better than some and worse than others. I use only Wix filters. The Mazda filter definitely isn't superior to it. Whatever you do, don't use Fram!
06-15-06 | 02:28 PM
#9
Originally Posted by stockrex
classic, won't the rate of heat tfr from the cooler be dependent on the rate of flow of the oil, regardless of the sump quantity, once it has heat up?
But in reality a 1.5 quart increase isn't going to dramtically change anything - it would be a good idea to help out wih the oil cooling, but its not going to suddenly slash 50 degrees off the temp.
I think in rotaries its a really good idea given the issues surrounding cooling we all face. I would like to use the Pineapple Racing oil pan - but my pocket change can't afford it right now.
06-15-06 | 02:32 PM
#11
Originally Posted by dopefishlives
...If you are looking for a weak link in your oil system, look at the OE cooler...
06-15-06 | 02:38 PM
#12
More oil is a good idea. The factory race oil pan for our cars (when still running wet-sump) has extra 2 quart capacity!
The 1st gen filters are taller than our filters if you want to stay factory.
If you want to see what filters are best cut open your used filters.
Fram does seem to use inferior materials- though I haven't any found defects.
Napa Gold looked great, Bosch looked great, haven't bought a Wix.
The 1st gen filters are taller than our filters if you want to stay factory.
If you want to see what filters are best cut open your used filters.
Fram does seem to use inferior materials- though I haven't any found defects.
Napa Gold looked great, Bosch looked great, haven't bought a Wix.
06-15-06 | 03:11 PM
#13
Originally Posted by dopefishlives
What proof do you have to support the WIX as being better than Mazda OE? I know Wix makes some good filters but I've never seen anyone compare them against the Mazda filter.
06-15-06 | 03:26 PM
#14
Originally Posted by rotarygod
Over at bob is the oil guy, there is an oil filter anaylsis. You can tell who makes the Mazda filter by reading the article. I forget now but it isn't made by Mazda.
Could you point me to this article?
06-15-06 | 03:33 PM
#15
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From: Kzoo, MI
let's not get into my filter is bigger/better than yours argument again for love of my torn MCL (gotta luv codeine),
yes, there are a whole spectrum of filters out there, fram has quite a questionable reputation, but at the same time you will find owners who have gotten 300k miles with fram and the cheapest oil on sale.
from a sheer technical point of view, oversizing the oil filter, will be it have a negative effect?
like lowering the oil pressure? overworking the oil pump? cause the amazonian boa constrictors not to mate? skew the CG of the car by shifting weight to the front?
yes, there are a whole spectrum of filters out there, fram has quite a questionable reputation, but at the same time you will find owners who have gotten 300k miles with fram and the cheapest oil on sale.
from a sheer technical point of view, oversizing the oil filter, will be it have a negative effect?
like lowering the oil pressure? overworking the oil pump? cause the amazonian boa constrictors not to mate? skew the CG of the car by shifting weight to the front?
06-15-06 | 06:18 PM
#17
Originally Posted by classicauto
ummmm, where are you finding this "oil filter analysis" on bobistheoilguy? I only see "oil analysis" but it says nothing about filters or filter manufacturers.
Could you point me to this article?
Could you point me to this article?
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters.html
06-15-06 | 07:48 PM
#18
Rotary $ > AMG $
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From: And the horse he rode in on...
Originally Posted by stockrex
any adverse effect of oversizing the oil filter in a S4 or S5?
Laymens terms, If you double the filter surface area, the speed of the oil will be half the speed of original filter area. And if you halve the speed, you increase the filter efficiency. That means filter will filter a higher percentage of particles out in each pass and will also filter smaller particles at the lower speed than it will at the higher speed.
That is why Bobtheoilguy filter tests give a filter area, so you can choose the filter that will have the lowest velocity across the filter media.
06-15-06 | 08:44 PM
#20
Haven't we ALL heard this
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From: Indiana
I do not see how this would work.
Saying you somehow keep the stock location you put this big ol filter there. Unless it has some super anti flow back valve....where is that extra oil going to go when you have the engine off? Back into the pan.
The only way I could see this working is mounting this monster filter so that it is threads up. So it can actually hold the extra capaticty of the oil.
James
Saying you somehow keep the stock location you put this big ol filter there. Unless it has some super anti flow back valve....where is that extra oil going to go when you have the engine off? Back into the pan.
The only way I could see this working is mounting this monster filter so that it is threads up. So it can actually hold the extra capaticty of the oil.
James
06-16-06 | 02:32 AM
#21
Saying you somehow keep the stock location you put this big ol filter there. Unless it has some super anti flow back valve....where is that extra oil going to go when you have the engine off?
You can pysically fit an extra quart or two in, it would just slosh up the oil fill tube and into the crankcase vent if driven while at this level.
Once you start the engine it would be in the filter and slosh would not be a problem.
Though, you would have to remember to check the oil level with engine HOT so a minimal amont has drained back.
You can pysically fit an extra quart or two in, it would just slosh up the oil fill tube and into the crankcase vent if driven while at this level.
Once you start the engine it would be in the filter and slosh would not be a problem.
Though, you would have to remember to check the oil level with engine HOT so a minimal amont has drained back.
06-16-06 | 03:14 AM
#22
catchafox
Joined: May 2006
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From: Akl New Zealand
dont forget its not just filtration of the oil but also flow, and oil filters restrict the flow when it passes through its filter. My local mazda mechanic (who worked at mazda japan through out the 80's) said stick with the mazda oe filters because the dont cause a pressure drop like some aftermarket ones can.And I dont think a larger filter will help in any large way.
06-16-06 | 10:51 AM
#23
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
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From: Rohnert Park CA
Originally Posted by darksider
YEAH! and what wrong with farm, i use them all the time.
And two times the area of the WIX/NAPA GOLD/Dana.
Frams also have been reported to fail on the end seams as the element is simply glued onto card board. When that card board lets go (often caused by minor amounts of moisture in the oil from condensation) it will go into the motor.
Mazda OEM filters are most commonly made by Denso, or Tennex (the same companies that build the Toyota OEM filters for North America- often considered the best filters for any amount of money).
More on the (shudder) Fram:
This filter cartridge has a small outside diameter with a rather low filter element surface area (193 sqin), and features cardboard end caps that are glued in place. The rubber anti-drainback valve seals the rough metal backplate to the cardboard end cap and easily leaks, causing dirty oil to drain back into the pan. If you have a noisy valve train at startup, this filter is likely the cause. The bypass valves are plastic and are sometimes not molded correctly, which allows them to leak. The backplate has smaller and fewer oil inlet holes, which may restrict flow.
The telltale signs for a Fram Extra Guard are: It has 8 small holes for the oil inlet and a thin, cheap looking backplate, and is currently stamped with a "2Y". There are 5 very small crimps holding the gasket in place. If you look into the center hole all the way to the top of the filter, you will see a kind of "button" in the end cap of the cartridge (which looks like it's made of metal from there). This is the plastic bypass valve.
The telltale signs for a Fram Extra Guard are: It has 8 small holes for the oil inlet and a thin, cheap looking backplate, and is currently stamped with a "2Y". There are 5 very small crimps holding the gasket in place. If you look into the center hole all the way to the top of the filter, you will see a kind of "button" in the end cap of the cartridge (which looks like it's made of metal from there). This is the plastic bypass valve.
Last edited by Icemark; 06-16-06 at 11:00 AM.
06-16-06 | 11:51 AM
#24
Rotary Freak
Joined: Jun 2004
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From: Ames, IA
Originally Posted by darksider
YEAH! and what wrong with farm, i use them all the time.
FRAM is the *only* filter I've heard of coming apart & filling the bottom half of an engine with paper.
I've heard about multiple instances of this happening.
They are cheap filters. Not inexpensive, not thrifty, not any other word that would imply inexpensive but still good, they're just cheap.
-=Russ=-
