once u go black u cant go back
09-13-08, 08:35 PM
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once u go black u cant go back
so im running synthetic and its working pretty good.. but when i redline it after i let off the gass a lot of smoke comes out.. im pretty sure its because of the synthetic oil.
is there anyway to go back to conventional oil without ******* up the seals
.. if its not the synthetic that making the smoke then nvm ill stick with it
and btw the only reason im redlining it is because sometimes ppl want to see it shoot flames and thats the only way i can get it to cuz i have stock y pipe and stock mufflers.. 2.5inch straight pipe before that, no cats.
is there anyway to go back to conventional oil without ******* up the seals
.. if its not the synthetic that making the smoke then nvm ill stick with it
and btw the only reason im redlining it is because sometimes ppl want to see it shoot flames and thats the only way i can get it to cuz i have stock y pipe and stock mufflers.. 2.5inch straight pipe before that, no cats.
09-13-08, 09:10 PM
#5
What I have heard is that the synthetics have a stronger detergent package added to them so they can be used longer between oil changes to help offset the added costs
Well, the stronger detergent cleans off some of the carbon deposits that build up on the oil seal scrapper o-rings and now they start to leak oil past them.
This is further exacerbated when rotary owners do try to offset some of the added costs of the synthetics by going longer between oil changes because rotaries foul the oil with gasoline as the side of the rotor is sprayed with gas as it passes the intake port.
This further thins the thin synthetic and oil gets past the cleaner leaking oil seals.
I have a friend that switched to Royal Purple last season and his oil seals are now quickly going out and smoke on deceleration.
Coincidence? Maybe, though they specifically state on their website that Royal Purple will clean out old contaminants from the oil system...
Well, the stronger detergent cleans off some of the carbon deposits that build up on the oil seal scrapper o-rings and now they start to leak oil past them.
This is further exacerbated when rotary owners do try to offset some of the added costs of the synthetics by going longer between oil changes because rotaries foul the oil with gasoline as the side of the rotor is sprayed with gas as it passes the intake port.
This further thins the thin synthetic and oil gets past the cleaner leaking oil seals.
I have a friend that switched to Royal Purple last season and his oil seals are now quickly going out and smoke on deceleration.
Coincidence? Maybe, though they specifically state on their website that Royal Purple will clean out old contaminants from the oil system...
09-13-08, 09:15 PM
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i was gunna use royal purple but we didnt have any left at my work at the time.. so im running amsoil which is pretty much just as good i think.
im just wonder if theres a way i can go back to conventional.. and i wasnt using synthetic to have a longer period inbetween changes.. im changing the oil every 3k anyway..
im just wonder if theres a way i can go back to conventional.. and i wasnt using synthetic to have a longer period inbetween changes.. im changing the oil every 3k anyway..
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10-27-08, 03:44 PM
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rotories + synthetic = no good..synthetics vicosity with the rotories heat really thins it out causing no enough protection against friction..search the forum to back up my statment.. your better off using a standard major oil company(castrol etc..)
10-28-08, 06:37 AM
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Ok just so everyone doesn't go off crazy and ill informed. Running synthetic oil in ANY high mileage engine is a bad idea. The seals in ANY high mileage engine are worn and are mostly held in place by the build up around them. When you put synthetic oil in the engine it cleans all that build up out and the seals can move just a bit. Well that just a bit is what the smoke is. My suggestion. Switch back quick before you do any real damage. If you want to run synthetic. Then rebuild your motor, remove your omp, and run a good premix oil. Other wise. Don't run synthetic in a high mileage engine.
10-28-08, 10:36 AM
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Correct^^^
Running synthetic on a high milage engine is no good, be it rotary or piston. Now running synthetic from day one in any engine IS a good idea (well some people disagree over the break-in but that is another discussion).
Personally my engine was rebuilt ~10,000 miles ago so i put synthetic in it as the seals are still pretty much new. it has been working great for me. But if it had not just been rebuilt i would not have done it.
Running synthetic on a high milage engine is no good, be it rotary or piston. Now running synthetic from day one in any engine IS a good idea (well some people disagree over the break-in but that is another discussion).
Personally my engine was rebuilt ~10,000 miles ago so i put synthetic in it as the seals are still pretty much new. it has been working great for me. But if it had not just been rebuilt i would not have done it.
10-28-08, 05:54 PM
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but when i redline it after i let off the gass a lot of smoke comes out..
...the only reason im redlining it is because sometimes ppl want to see it shoot flames and thats the only way i can get it to cuz i have stock y pipe and stock mufflers.. 2.5inch straight pipe before that, no cats.
...the only reason im redlining it is because sometimes ppl want to see it shoot flames and thats the only way i can get it to cuz i have stock y pipe and stock mufflers.. 2.5inch straight pipe before that, no cats.
And what's with the reactionary attitude towards Sythetic? The "high mileage" thing is definitely YYMV, but not using a sythetic in a rotary? Where the hell have you people been? I guess someone should go tell SpeedSource to get that synthetic out of their 20b!!
10-28-08, 06:13 PM
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^^^That would be a race car my friend....not a full blown race car but a car they can have occasional fun in. also they REBUILT that engine. please read before you post. it has already been stated my friend that you CAN use it in a freshly broken in rebuilt engine WITH THE OMP REMOVED....other than that, no. i use cheap *** supertech from wal mart because i change my oil once every month and a half so my oil never breaks down
10-28-08, 10:52 PM
#17
That's just plain wrong.
Ok just so everyone doesn't go off crazy and ill informed. Running synthetic oil in ANY high mileage engine is a bad idea. The seals in ANY high mileage engine are worn and are mostly held in place by the build up around them. When you put synthetic oil in the engine it cleans all that build up out and the seals can move just a bit. Well that just a bit is what the smoke is. My suggestion. Switch back quick before you do any real damage. If you want to run synthetic. Then rebuild your motor, remove your omp, and run a good premix oil. Other wise. Don't run synthetic in a high mileage engine.
Correct^^^
Running synthetic on a high milage engine is no good, be it rotary or piston. Now running synthetic from day one in any engine IS a good idea (well some people disagree over the break-in but that is another discussion).
Personally my engine was rebuilt ~10,000 miles ago so i put synthetic in it as the seals are still pretty much new. it has been working great for me. But if it had not just been rebuilt i would not have done it.
Running synthetic on a high milage engine is no good, be it rotary or piston. Now running synthetic from day one in any engine IS a good idea (well some people disagree over the break-in but that is another discussion).
Personally my engine was rebuilt ~10,000 miles ago so i put synthetic in it as the seals are still pretty much new. it has been working great for me. But if it had not just been rebuilt i would not have done it.
It's an old myth. There are plenty of detergents in standard oils nowadays and if such a thing were the case, all oil would do what you describe.
10-29-08, 11:33 AM
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Guys, just... no. Carbon build up can not hold hard seals in place. The compressive and shear strength of carbon build up would easily be overwhelmed by the forces put on it if that were taking up apex to rotor clearance or whatever you're describing. Even on the nastiest motor if you inspect high wear areas there will be obvious bare metal.
It's an old myth. There are plenty of detergents in standard oils nowadays and if such a thing were the case, all oil would do what you describe.
It's an old myth. There are plenty of detergents in standard oils nowadays and if such a thing were the case, all oil would do what you describe.
On mine, the car didn't use harly any oil. I switched to mobile 1 (which is known to have TONS of additives in it) ad within 1000 miles it was eating oil. By 3000 it was eating it bad.
Didn't use harly any oil the prior 140k miles, so i am pretty darn sure that the mobile 1 is what cleaned out some of the "clogs" that were keeping it from using oil.
As i said, with a new engine use synthetic for sure, but on an old one, be careful.
I just pulled the valve cover on my 4runnners engine the other day, and i have to say it is DARN clean after running synthetic in it compared tot he replacment valve cover i got from the junk yard.
10-29-08, 05:05 PM
#21
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Okay, before I close this thread (because the subject has been covered countless times before and is covered in the FAQ for FC as well as at least a dozen threads in the archive, lets clear up the complete mis-conceptions in this thread.
First:
You can switch between a synthetic and a conventional at any point. All synthetics are compatible with conventional oils and in some cases are simply conventional oils that have been modified so much that they really can no longer be considered conventional.
#2
Synthetics will not clean out your engine any more than a good quality conventional oil. They do not contain anything to reduce ash or carbon deposits.
#3 There is no reason that you can not use good quality synthetics in a rotary engine. See the FAQ for FC for a list of good quality synthetics.
#4 Modern synthetics will not cause damage or increase leakage from seals. This old wives take is left over from old synthetics that back in the 70's used to swell rubber seals. The additives used back then that caused this have not been used in synthetic oils in the last 30 years.
and because there were so many mis-conceptions in this thread a few more:
#5 most synthetics leave less ash and deposits than conventional oils when used in rotary engines. This is because most of them burn cleaner then many conventional oils. On this same vein, there is not a synthetic made that does not burn at or under 500F... considerably less than the combustion temperature of the rotary engine.
#6 you can mix synthetics with conventional oils at any point.
#7 the only reason not to use most synthetics in a rotary engine is cost.
#8 The oil still needs to be changed every 3000-5000 miles regardless of what type of oil and/or filter is used.
#9 Synthetics have been recommended for use in rotary motors by Mazdaspeed and Mazda Competition for over 20 years.
#10 Amsoil has used their synthetic in rotary engines for 30 years with no oil related issues.
First:
You can switch between a synthetic and a conventional at any point. All synthetics are compatible with conventional oils and in some cases are simply conventional oils that have been modified so much that they really can no longer be considered conventional.
#2
Synthetics will not clean out your engine any more than a good quality conventional oil. They do not contain anything to reduce ash or carbon deposits.
#3 There is no reason that you can not use good quality synthetics in a rotary engine. See the FAQ for FC for a list of good quality synthetics.
#4 Modern synthetics will not cause damage or increase leakage from seals. This old wives take is left over from old synthetics that back in the 70's used to swell rubber seals. The additives used back then that caused this have not been used in synthetic oils in the last 30 years.
and because there were so many mis-conceptions in this thread a few more:
#5 most synthetics leave less ash and deposits than conventional oils when used in rotary engines. This is because most of them burn cleaner then many conventional oils. On this same vein, there is not a synthetic made that does not burn at or under 500F... considerably less than the combustion temperature of the rotary engine.
#6 you can mix synthetics with conventional oils at any point.
#7 the only reason not to use most synthetics in a rotary engine is cost.
#8 The oil still needs to be changed every 3000-5000 miles regardless of what type of oil and/or filter is used.
#9 Synthetics have been recommended for use in rotary motors by Mazdaspeed and Mazda Competition for over 20 years.
#10 Amsoil has used their synthetic in rotary engines for 30 years with no oil related issues.