DerangedHermit

First off, let me say that I don't have the car here to directly diagnose the problem. It's about an hour away and I'm going to be working on it this weekend and would like some ideas of what to look for (daily driver that I NEED to get running).

I took out my alternator last weekend to put a double alternator pulley on (yay) and was a ******* genius and forgot to disconnect my battery . The top wire on the alternator sparked when it made random contact (the plug on the back was disconnected at the time). When I had everything back together, my car had 0 power to anything. There's no beeping with my key in, I can't raise my headlights, nothing...

I replaced the main fuse in the engine bay and that did nothing (if it was fried my headlights would still work anyways?).

There's 2 things I can think of:
1- Screwed my battery over
2- Fried some wiring

Anybody able to shed some light on this or have other ideas so I can get it fixed?

Thanks

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

main fuse?

DerangedHermit

Are you referring to the one that I replaced that resulted in no change...?

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

sorry missed that part...have you checked the wiring around it? (i've seen them pop before but also melt a bit of insulation under the fuse box)

was the main fuse even popped when you replaced it?

DerangedHermit

I don't think it was bad when I replaced it, but for $3, I might as well.

So check the insulation around the fuse box, gotcha. I guess that might fall under "fried some wiring", but maybe not. Would the melted insulation cause it to not flow any power?

So now I have:
1- Screwed my battery over
2- Fried some wiring
3- Look for melted insulation

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

well first off:

verify that the battery at least has juice (whether it'll crank the car over or not is another story) by testing with a multimeter right at the terminals.

that will scratch one off the list.

NExt I would check the wiring around the fuse panel - if a dead short across the alt. did not fry the fuse - replacing it is a good idea since it probably should have tripped.

No melted inslu. obviously won't cause power not to flow, but it may have heated up solder at a joint to the fuse panel and be causing a poor or non existent connection which is why you should look for it - it might point to the problem.

DerangedHermit

Even with very little charge, would it still not at least beep when I put the key in? I've run it down before (left my lights on... I need to stop being forgetful) and even then I got a very faint beep.

Regardless, I was going to check the battery/use a different one and see if it had any effect.

I replaced the Main Fuse, but would any others have this large of an effect or of fried also?

Alright, that's something I'll look for. Thanks.

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

I don't believe there are any other fuses with that many functions tied to them

DerangedHermit

Didn't think so.

DerangedHermit

Any last thoughts before I go home this weekend and work on this screw up?

Miss... my... baby... !!!

DerangedHermit

Is it possible that I fried my ignition switch?

(I'm trying to figure out these damn wiring schematics. It's something I've never understood so give me a break )

Edit: That wouldn't explain why I can't even turn on my headlights would it? ... God I hate electrical stuff.

DerangedHermit

Ok, I'm a retard. Due to it being late and having little light/brain activity, when I put in my new 80A fuse I left one of the connectors off..

But, that only kind of fixed my problem. I now have power... kind of. The battery is reading over 12V so it's charged (at least I think so).

Symptoms: According to key position

Observed symptoms:
ACC/lock position: Normal beeping, lights, etc.
On: The beeping gets faint, lights go up slowly/are dim... basically it's acting like my battery has a crap charge.
Start: Absolutely nothing.

I tested the voltage of the black wire coming from my ignition switch:
ACC/lock: Around 12v
On: Around 4v
Start: I think around 1v. It looked like it could of been at 0, but when I unground the tester the needle did drop a tiny bit.

There was only one time where I put the key to the On position and it didn't sound faint. When I went to Start the previous symptoms reappeared. After that, the On position went back to its crappy reduced voltage self.

When I tried jumping it, the On position changed a bit. My tach went up to 3k and... um... **** I forgot. Anyways, when I went to Start, it made a clicking (louder than the starter not working click) and the same thing from the tach. I didn't try that again because that sounds like a disaster waiting to happen...

I've searched and read threads concerning the ignition switch. I couldn't find one that said anything about reduced power when in the On position. There were alot that said no power... but not reduced power. (Such as, the X-23 connector isn't connected, which would cause no power, not reduced)

I'm not around my car so I can't continue testing, but I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas why it would be reduced power as opposed to none. Or just anyone able to check light on the situation in general (hopefully Hailer's isn't on vacation).

On a side note, I opened up my old main fuse and looked at it. The fuse wire was broken apart and there was about a 1cm gap between the sides. Considering it's a blown fuse, is that a large gap?

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

hmm....

Id maybe check grounds and such....I know it sounds stupid but how are the battery terminals?

Maybe pull the wires off the starter and verify the amount of voltage its getting...


Thats a very strage problem

DerangedHermit

Grounds might be a problem. I figure if they were though I wouldn't be getting any power. Not sure.

The battery terminals look fine. I cleaned them with a wire brush and the battery wire connectors are basically brand new. I'm getting good voltage from the battery... at times...

I could check the starter. About a month ago I had the clicking problem but after trying to start it about 8 times it finally worked. Haven't had any problems since then. Once again, I'm not sure how that would affect my voltage in the ACC position.

All things I should check anyways though.

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

Not necessairly, Ive seen grounds make for spotty voltage in a numerous vehicles...but that might not be your problem

*if* you want to verify the ignition - you could simply grab another wiring setup and try it in.....the whole unit that actually contains the contacts for the ignition can be unplugged without pulling anythign apart - you just need a column with a known good ignition to use. -sidenote- I found this out when mucking around with a parts car trying to psuedo-steal it from myself....but the car can be started VERY easily....pull the column covers off - then one phillips head screw in the ignition unit, cut one zip tie, pull it off and turn it with a screw driver.....but anyways - thats the little unit you'd need to swap to test it.....

good luck with this Hermit!

HAILERS

Grounds my ***.

A common problem with a car that has headlights, but no action out of the key, such as the idiot lights not working and starter not working, is that the single wire feed to the Ignition switch is either pulled apart or it has fried at some part and is not functional.

This wire is BLACK. It has a single connector located about a half foot below the engine fuse box. It's run is from that area to the two wire connector at the ignition switch.

This two wire connector at the ignition switch has one black/white wire and one BLACK wire. That BLACK wire is the one from below the engine fuse box.

You can prove this easily with a meter. PUll the two wire conenctor apart and put a meter on the pure black wire. It should have battery voltage 24 hrs a day. The key does not have to be ON to check this.

AS you figured out, not all things are fed from the ignition key.

IF memory serves, there are about four plugs for the ignition switch. All located about a foot below and fwd of the ignition switch itself.

Personally I'd start in the engine bay fuse box area. The single.......BLACK wire....single connector about a foot below the engine fuse box. Located b/t the a/c compressore and fender.

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for the soft let down.....sorry for suggestions

DerangedHermit

If it was pulled apart (which it's not) or fried, why would there be reduced voltage in the On position (it has 12v's in the ACC and lock positions)?

I don't doubt that my ignition system is screwed in some way, I'm just curious as to the voltage drop because I haven't seen that symptom in any other threads.

HAILERS

My bad. You said the headlights DO NOT work, so it's not the power wire to the ignition switch at all.

Something has to be screwed at the engine fuse box itself or the battery cables/terminations.

Or a burnt up ground (author goes to eat his previous words now)

DerangedHermit

Mmmmmmk.

So, check for a bad ground, screwy fuse box, and bad battery terminals/cables. Gotcha.

Wish I knew more about how wiring/electricity/etc. worked...

Thanks Hailers/Classic

bradenscreed

bad grounds have caused weird problems for me, but it does sound like a burnt wire, i did the same thing u did when putting in my pulley, but ALWAYS disconnect the battery, sorry for your troubles, but id check for a bad wire.

DerangedHermit

Yeah, I've never done it before and hope I'm smart enough to never do it again.

Did you burn a wire when you did it? If so, where did you find it?

HAILERS

EDITED: Just below the two bolts that hold the main fuse, there are two other bolts with wires.

One of these wires comes from the battery positive termainal and the other feeds the busses of the fuse boxes.

Maybe somehow you left one or the other wires off when you reinstalled the main fuse. Question: did you indeed replace the main fuse? You'd have to remove the two bolts that hold it in the fuse box to do so. Just asking.

IF all that is right, I think what I'd do, if I had no meter, is to put the headlights to the UP position. Now you say they don't work. So go to the battery and the fuse box and do a wiggle test. Wiggle the battery posts and the wires. IF there is a intermittent, then the light should pop up or make a sound when you touch the right wire/connection.

Also make sure you did not accidentaly pull one or more of the wire off the bottom of the engine fuse box. The ones that just pull straight off.

If you had a meter it'd be simple. Just check at each side of the main fuse to see if there is batt voltage. I mean each of the bolts that hold the fuse in the box should have batt voltage.

IF you have voltage there, then look down from the engine bay fuse box and look for a single black wire and single wire connector . Pull it apart and see if there is batt voltage on the fuse box side. Actually this almost can't be you problem because that wire ONLY feeds the ignition switch and also splits off and goes to the alternators output wire.

I've blown one Main Fuse in my life and that was by using a long screwdriver to adjust the tps on the engine. Just barely touched the alt output terminal. The only thing that blew was that fuse in an instant, so it's hard to believe anything else got burnt up when you blew your main fuse. It's odd.

HAILERS

I need to apologize a little. The MAIN FUSE is not as important as I previously thought. I looked at the FSM diagram and couldn't believe the car was wired like the picture in the book. So I went to my car and sure enough, the MAIN FUSE has squat to do with whether or not the headlights come up or not. There is a jpg attached where you can see the 80amp Main Fuse has no influence on the headlights etc. Only the feed line that goes to the alternator and the ignition switch.

So it's virtually impossible for the blowing of the Main fuse to cause the headlights/retractors to not work. Therefore it has to be another thing.

Now the fuse box gets fed from the positve terminal of the battery. That small black wire goes from the positve terminal to the fwd side of the engine fuse box and is held with a small bolt. This bolt is just below the one that holds the main fuse in the box. It's almost impossible for this size wire to burn intwo by just touching the alt post to ground. Ain't no way. So make sure the battery is fully charged and the two terminals are on good as a beginning thing to do.

See the attached jpg and the main fuse and you should be able to see what I'm talking about. And by the way, I removed my Main Fuse just to prove the headlights are not effected by it's removal. They went up and lit up. The only thing effected by the Main Fuse missing seems to be the lack of power to the ignition switch and a lack of feed from the alternator if it were putting out.

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

good info hailers!