newbie questions for 2nd gen RX7
11-08-01 | 02:08 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: San Jose,CA
newbie questions for 2nd gen RX7
I have decided to retire my current daily driver and I am looking at the 2nd gen. RX7 to take up the slack. So here goes the questions.
1)Is there a site where I can find FAQs on the 2nd gen?
2)Which one is the 2+2, GTU or GXL?
3)Any mechanical probs. with the 2nd gen., one with the manual tranny in particular?
4)What should I be looking/listening for when test driving the car?
I will have it inspected by a dealer/shop along with a compression test, prior to purchase.
TIA
1)Is there a site where I can find FAQs on the 2nd gen?
2)Which one is the 2+2, GTU or GXL?
3)Any mechanical probs. with the 2nd gen., one with the manual tranny in particular?
4)What should I be looking/listening for when test driving the car?
I will have it inspected by a dealer/shop along with a compression test, prior to purchase.
TIA
11-08-01 | 02:33 PM
#2
knowledge junkie
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 5,595
Likes: 6
From: Atlanta, GA
booster,
There are several sites that have FAQs on them. Here's one of them:
http://www.teamfc3s.org/main.shtml
Here's a few other sites you might want to check out:
www.racingbeat.com
www.corksport.com
www.mazdatrix.com
www.rx7.com
www.rx7store.net
www.atkinsrotory.com
www.mariahmotorsports.com
The models are SE (base), GXL (luxury), GTU (best price/performance), GTU-S (lighter GTU), convertible, turbo II (supercar), and sport (older GTU). The 2+2 refers to rear fold down seats instead of rear storage compartments. It was both a dealer option and some earlier models came with that from the factory.
No major mechanical problems with the 2nd gen rx-7s (86-92). There are several electrical quirks that are well documented and have "do it yourself" fixes.
Most people look for an rx7 with "low engine miles," "recently rebuilt," or "new engine" for extra reliability/longevity.
As a general rule, engine rebuilds are done:
SE, GXL, sport, convertible (86-88) - 200-250K miles (thousand miles)
GTU, GTU-S (89-92) 180-220K miles)
Turbo II (140-160K miles)
You can also find one with a blown engine and rebuild the engine yourself.
Besides the above, you always want to get an engine compression test done by Mazda or an rx-7 mechanic. This will let you know how the car is doing internally
Since your new to rx-7s, here's some details from another quote that might help:
There are several sites that have FAQs on them. Here's one of them:
http://www.teamfc3s.org/main.shtml
Here's a few other sites you might want to check out:
www.racingbeat.com
www.corksport.com
www.mazdatrix.com
www.rx7.com
www.rx7store.net
www.atkinsrotory.com
www.mariahmotorsports.com
The models are SE (base), GXL (luxury), GTU (best price/performance), GTU-S (lighter GTU), convertible, turbo II (supercar), and sport (older GTU). The 2+2 refers to rear fold down seats instead of rear storage compartments. It was both a dealer option and some earlier models came with that from the factory.
No major mechanical problems with the 2nd gen rx-7s (86-92). There are several electrical quirks that are well documented and have "do it yourself" fixes.
Most people look for an rx7 with "low engine miles," "recently rebuilt," or "new engine" for extra reliability/longevity.
As a general rule, engine rebuilds are done:
SE, GXL, sport, convertible (86-88) - 200-250K miles (thousand miles)
GTU, GTU-S (89-92) 180-220K miles)
Turbo II (140-160K miles)
You can also find one with a blown engine and rebuild the engine yourself.
Besides the above, you always want to get an engine compression test done by Mazda or an rx-7 mechanic. This will let you know how the car is doing internally
Since your new to rx-7s, here's some details from another quote that might help:
Originally posted by vaughnc
shadyteke,
Hey welcome to the forum.
For the 2nd generation years (86-92), your models are:
SE/sport - base models (cheapest)
GTU/GTU-S - sporty models (best HP/cost)
GXL - luxury model (best luxury/cost)
Convertible - sweet model
Turbo II - supercar
The GTU-S and GTU probably has the most reliability to performance of all the models. The 89-92 years have a bit more HP and the 86-88 years have a bit more engine life.
You are definity in for a treat for any model you choose. The rx-7s have one of the largest followings of any car, have more aftermarket bodykits, performance accessories, general accessories, new OEM parts, used OEM parts, aftermarket parts, userbase, knowlegable experts, support groups, car clubs in every region, quarterly events, etc.. This all means you'll have LOTS of options for personalizing your car both under the hood, on the inside, and extrenally changing or enhancing the appearance.
What makes the rotary engine rx-7 unique is the engine's light weight and small size compared to the output (ie fast 0-60 and 1/4 mile times), ability to handle high revs with no problems (fun to drive - high rev starts), and the smaller engine gives the rx-7 chasses it's many advantages including additional stiffening, beter suspension, 50/50/50/50 balance for taking curves, low profile nose for very little drag, lighter weight, etc...
The non-turbo models obviously have the most reliability. The TII (Turbo) can be very reliable as well, but do keep in mind they will run a slight premium overall.
Where most people get into trouble with the TII is improperly modifying the car or not taking care of the engine (ie changing the oil every 2500-3000 miles, 30 & 60K services, etc..).
As far as driving, the TII is a supercar - PERIOD. Having 200-450HP (or more) under the hood, lots of grip, extreemly good handling, etc.. takes some getting use to and is not for the timid driver.
As far as buying any rx-7, you may want to pay a slight premium for one with a "new engine," "recently rebuilt," or "low engine miles" OR find one for dirt cheap and install a new engine. Either way should give you EVEN MORE reliability.
Just remember get a compression test done on the engine of any rx-7 you buy to verify the sellers claims.
Any more questions??
A few pics for ya:
shadyteke,
Hey welcome to the forum.
For the 2nd generation years (86-92), your models are:
SE/sport - base models (cheapest)
GTU/GTU-S - sporty models (best HP/cost)
GXL - luxury model (best luxury/cost)
Convertible - sweet model
Turbo II - supercar
The GTU-S and GTU probably has the most reliability to performance of all the models. The 89-92 years have a bit more HP and the 86-88 years have a bit more engine life.
You are definity in for a treat for any model you choose. The rx-7s have one of the largest followings of any car, have more aftermarket bodykits, performance accessories, general accessories, new OEM parts, used OEM parts, aftermarket parts, userbase, knowlegable experts, support groups, car clubs in every region, quarterly events, etc.. This all means you'll have LOTS of options for personalizing your car both under the hood, on the inside, and extrenally changing or enhancing the appearance.
What makes the rotary engine rx-7 unique is the engine's light weight and small size compared to the output (ie fast 0-60 and 1/4 mile times), ability to handle high revs with no problems (fun to drive - high rev starts), and the smaller engine gives the rx-7 chasses it's many advantages including additional stiffening, beter suspension, 50/50/50/50 balance for taking curves, low profile nose for very little drag, lighter weight, etc...
The non-turbo models obviously have the most reliability. The TII (Turbo) can be very reliable as well, but do keep in mind they will run a slight premium overall.
Where most people get into trouble with the TII is improperly modifying the car or not taking care of the engine (ie changing the oil every 2500-3000 miles, 30 & 60K services, etc..).
As far as driving, the TII is a supercar - PERIOD. Having 200-450HP (or more) under the hood, lots of grip, extreemly good handling, etc.. takes some getting use to and is not for the timid driver.
As far as buying any rx-7, you may want to pay a slight premium for one with a "new engine," "recently rebuilt," or "low engine miles" OR find one for dirt cheap and install a new engine. Either way should give you EVEN MORE reliability.
Just remember get a compression test done on the engine of any rx-7 you buy to verify the sellers claims.
Any more questions??
A few pics for ya:
Last edited by vaughnc; 11-08-01 at 02:44 PM.
11-08-01 | 03:36 PM
#7
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: San Jose,CA
vaughnc,
Thanks for the info., I will definately check out the sites. Those RX7 pics are sweet.
For a well taken care engine, how could it go so high a mileage before a rebuild?
I might consider picking one up with a blown engine and just put a new one in. How much does a new engine run for, plus the install?
Thanks for the info., I will definately check out the sites. Those RX7 pics are sweet.
For a well taken care engine, how could it go so high a mileage before a rebuild?
I might consider picking one up with a blown engine and just put a new one in. How much does a new engine run for, plus the install?
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11-08-01 | 05:43 PM
#8
I'll have a Coke!
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 565
Likes: 6
From: Golden, CO
I saw the post and i have a question about getting a compression test done. I took my car to a Mazda dealership in Hartford for a diagnostic and the mechanic said that it would probable cost $100 or more to do it. I figured the guy must be trying to pull a fast one on me, or is that about right for that kind of test? I also didn't agree to get it done after i heard that because he said the engine seemed to be in good shape consider the 168,000 miles on the odometer. She starts right up and runs strong. Should i get it done anyways to make sure the compression is still in a good range?
any insights anyone might have would be great.
~ Phu5ion
any insights anyone might have would be great.
~ Phu5ion
11-08-01 | 06:22 PM
#9
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 724
Likes: 0
From: Montgomery, Al.
Originally posted by Phu5ion
I saw the post and i have a question about getting a compression test done. I took my car to a Mazda dealership in Hartford for a diagnostic and the mechanic said that it would probable cost $100 or more to do it. I figured the guy must be trying to pull a fast one on me, or is that about right for that kind of test? I also didn't agree to get it done after i heard that because he said the engine seemed to be in good shape consider the 168,000 miles on the odometer. She starts right up and runs strong. Should i get it done anyways to make sure the compression is still in a good range?
any insights anyone might have would be great.
~ Phu5ion
I saw the post and i have a question about getting a compression test done. I took my car to a Mazda dealership in Hartford for a diagnostic and the mechanic said that it would probable cost $100 or more to do it. I figured the guy must be trying to pull a fast one on me, or is that about right for that kind of test? I also didn't agree to get it done after i heard that because he said the engine seemed to be in good shape consider the 168,000 miles on the odometer. She starts right up and runs strong. Should i get it done anyways to make sure the compression is still in a good range?
any insights anyone might have would be great.
~ Phu5ion
Unplug the fuel pump. This requires that you remove some of the carpeting in the trunk/hatch area. If it's a convertible, pull the carpeting back. You'll see a metal plate that has a line coming out of it in the center held in by four screws, it's on the left side of the trunk near the little storage compartment for tools to yank the tire. Remove the plate, viola, access to the fuel pump. Unplug it.
If it's a coupe model you'll need to remove the plastic and carpeting around the passenger side strut tower. You should be able to pull the carpeting back enough to see a wire that runs to the fuel pump, I think the plug for it is on the passenger strut tower. Simply follow the wire and you'll see it.
Get in the car and start it up, since it's getting no fuel it should die quickly. This is just to get the fuel out of the lines.
Next, unplug the crank angle sensor. It's the round thing near the front of the engine to the right that has a flat plate on top. It looks like it could be a distributor, but it's not. Simply unplug it.
Now, remove a trailing (top) spark plug from the rotor of your choosing and screw in the compression guage. Have an assistant crank the car over for you. When you're doing this you'll want to disable (push it in or something so that air can escape) the check valve so that the guage does not hold a reading. You should get three even bounces.
110+ reading on the guage = good
90-110 = good, and could last a while, but it's beginning to wear out
below 90 = take care of it and it will probably last a while, but it's getting pretty low
My last engine showed 80 on one rotor and 85 on the other before it died.
Do both rotors.
Last edited by Mykl; 11-08-01 at 06:24 PM.
11-08-01 | 06:29 PM
#10
knowledge junkie
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 5,595
Likes: 6
From: Atlanta, GA
booster,
The internal compenents could go even longer, but the APEX seals between the rotary housings are the week point. Since the NAs (non turbos) see lower engine compression/no boost, the seals don't see much wear and thus last a long time.
Note with a rotary engine, low engine compression and worn APEX seals DO NOT!!! cause a loss of power. Thus you can test drive a "unknown condition" one that seems great but may only have 15-20K more miles left before a rebuild is needed. In fact you can get an "unknown condition" one with EXCELLENT compression and you'll think "bad performance = bad engine." In that scenario, the catalytic converter could be clogged, dirty fuel injectors, old/worn spark plug wires, etc.." I've been trying to find one of those "diamonds in the rough" cars myself
When the APEX seals go, if your lucky compression will go to 0PSI and the rotors won't turn. If your not lucky, the apex seals will break off into the housing and damage the rotors and housing.
Usually (80% of the time) you'll just have the rear rotor go and see a big drop in performance since you only have 1 rotor working.
I've heard rebuilt engines cost between $750-$2500 depending on how many components you get along with the engine. There's other worn parts you might as well replace along with the engine core.
With the converitble and turbo II models, you might WANT to get a car with blown engine as cost's are cheaper overall (usually) than real world value of a newer engine convertible or turbo II.
Note I would not recommend trying to replace the APEX seals on the OEM engine yourself because tolerances are very strick with rotary engines. Getting a completely assembled "block" / near-crate engine is best.
Phu5ion,
Compression tests in GA from mazda are $75, so $75-$120 is probably the norm. If you already own the car, I would just drive it till the engine goes (could be another 60-80+K (thousand) miles in the non-turbo cars). If you really want to know, then make sure mazda tells you how they do the compression test. They are several things they should do including letting the car warm up completly.
If they do it wrong you'll get lower than actual results.
-- vaughnc
1992 FC3S Turbo II RX-7 - Midnight Blue
The internal compenents could go even longer, but the APEX seals between the rotary housings are the week point. Since the NAs (non turbos) see lower engine compression/no boost, the seals don't see much wear and thus last a long time.
Note with a rotary engine, low engine compression and worn APEX seals DO NOT!!! cause a loss of power. Thus you can test drive a "unknown condition" one that seems great but may only have 15-20K more miles left before a rebuild is needed. In fact you can get an "unknown condition" one with EXCELLENT compression and you'll think "bad performance = bad engine." In that scenario, the catalytic converter could be clogged, dirty fuel injectors, old/worn spark plug wires, etc.." I've been trying to find one of those "diamonds in the rough" cars myself
When the APEX seals go, if your lucky compression will go to 0PSI and the rotors won't turn. If your not lucky, the apex seals will break off into the housing and damage the rotors and housing.
Usually (80% of the time) you'll just have the rear rotor go and see a big drop in performance since you only have 1 rotor working.
I've heard rebuilt engines cost between $750-$2500 depending on how many components you get along with the engine. There's other worn parts you might as well replace along with the engine core.
With the converitble and turbo II models, you might WANT to get a car with blown engine as cost's are cheaper overall (usually) than real world value of a newer engine convertible or turbo II.
Note I would not recommend trying to replace the APEX seals on the OEM engine yourself because tolerances are very strick with rotary engines. Getting a completely assembled "block" / near-crate engine is best.
Phu5ion,
Compression tests in GA from mazda are $75, so $75-$120 is probably the norm. If you already own the car, I would just drive it till the engine goes (could be another 60-80+K (thousand) miles in the non-turbo cars). If you really want to know, then make sure mazda tells you how they do the compression test. They are several things they should do including letting the car warm up completly.
If they do it wrong you'll get lower than actual results.
-- vaughnc
1992 FC3S Turbo II RX-7 - Midnight Blue
Last edited by vaughnc; 11-08-01 at 06:47 PM.
11-11-01 | 11:35 AM
#12
I'll have a Coke!
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 565
Likes: 6
From: Golden, CO
yeah i just finished running changing the spak plugs. i also ran a compression test while the trailling plugs were out and i got a reading of 125-130 in the front and 115-120 in the rear rotor.
thanks
~ Phu5ion
thanks
~ Phu5ion
11-11-01 | 12:01 PM
#13
Hey Vaughnc, I thought that Mazda didnt make an rx-7 in 1992, they just sold the 91 models until there were no more. Am I wrong, or do you just have a 91 rx-7 that was purchased in '92?
11-13-01 | 12:16 AM
#15
Rotorhead
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,136
Likes: 39
From: Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
Aaron's web page has a good section on what to look for when buying a 2Gen:
http://www.aaroncake.net/RX-7/
The manual tranny is pretty good. Stay away from the automatic because it is really expensive to fix or replace.
Actually, a rotary with low compression will have less HP, but you either need to know what a good engine feels like, or test one on a dyno to be able to tell the difference. A low-compression engine will spool up faster, giving those not familiar with the engine an impression that it is running well. I would recommend a compression check unless you know that the engine is toast, or you have a receipt and warranty from a recently rebuilt engine.
Stock seals will last for about 150,000 miles on the street. You can usually use them longer than this, but you are taking a risk of catastrophic failure by doing so.
http://www.aaroncake.net/RX-7/
The manual tranny is pretty good. Stay away from the automatic because it is really expensive to fix or replace.
Actually, a rotary with low compression will have less HP, but you either need to know what a good engine feels like, or test one on a dyno to be able to tell the difference. A low-compression engine will spool up faster, giving those not familiar with the engine an impression that it is running well. I would recommend a compression check unless you know that the engine is toast, or you have a receipt and warranty from a recently rebuilt engine.
Stock seals will last for about 150,000 miles on the street. You can usually use them longer than this, but you are taking a risk of catastrophic failure by doing so.
11-13-01 | 07:55 AM
#16
I'll have a Coke!
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 565
Likes: 6
From: Golden, CO
Stock seals will last for about 150,000 miles on the street. You can usually use them longer than this, but you are taking a risk of catastrophic failure by doing so.
~ Phu5ion
11-13-01 | 03:29 PM
#17
Rotorhead
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,136
Likes: 39
From: Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
Originally posted by Phu5ion
what about do an ATF treatment to try and revive the seals on a 150k+ engine? That should help clean the seals and get the engine and performance back.
~ Phu5ion
what about do an ATF treatment to try and revive the seals on a 150k+ engine? That should help clean the seals and get the engine and performance back.
~ Phu5ion
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