new turbo manifold pics
04-24-05, 10:29 PM
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new turbo manifold pics
heres what I spent my weekend building. It is made out of very thick wall steel. Flanges are 1/2 inch thick. Thanks to Marc from JHB Performance for getting the flanges for me. It is mounting to a s5 stage 3 hybrid to 3 inch exhaust. I plan on getting it ceramic thermal barrier coated.
04-24-05, 11:28 PM
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What are you going to do about the oil drain on that, since it's no longer pointing down? And, chances are the weight of the turbo and the long piping, coupled with the heat, is going to crack it (i've tried a setup very similar to that)
04-25-05, 09:42 AM
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wow a guy cant get no love around here. That wont crack, if you guys would read, it is made of very thick wall steel. Very thick, welds are very strong. this thing wont crack. I have been considering adding a brace that attaches somewhere else near the turbo to assist in holding the weight so it is not all on the studs from the block.
If you think I wasted my time, sure, but it is to get the turbo away from the LIM. Does it not make sense to get it further than an inch away like the stock manifold. Cool air is more powerful air. isnt that like leaving the stock intercooler on the top of the motor, instead of moving it in front of the rad? Anyways, it is not a stock turbo, read first post, this allows so much more access to things as well. Oh and the oil drain will work just fine if you index the turbo, which I have already done. no love here, I guess I should just use the same old stock parts to please the forum,HAHA!!!
If you think I wasted my time, sure, but it is to get the turbo away from the LIM. Does it not make sense to get it further than an inch away like the stock manifold. Cool air is more powerful air. isnt that like leaving the stock intercooler on the top of the motor, instead of moving it in front of the rad? Anyways, it is not a stock turbo, read first post, this allows so much more access to things as well. Oh and the oil drain will work just fine if you index the turbo, which I have already done. no love here, I guess I should just use the same old stock parts to please the forum,HAHA!!!
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04-25-05, 09:58 AM
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60lbs on the end of a two foot level bouncing around with 800*C heat is going to crack eventually man, I tried everything to do it this way at first, 
As for your further away from the manifold idea, no, it doesn't make sense for what you're saying. The hotside benefits from the heat and strong pulses the rotary engine gives it as it's close in it's path, allowing it to spool faster, spacing it further away reduces these benefits.
/constructive criticism?
As for your further away from the manifold idea, no, it doesn't make sense for what you're saying. The hotside benefits from the heat and strong pulses the rotary engine gives it as it's close in it's path, allowing it to spool faster, spacing it further away reduces these benefits.
/constructive criticism?
04-25-05, 10:09 AM
#9
just brace it to the shock tower of the weight of the turbo will be the manifolds demize. Good work on it so far I guess. Might want to have it jet coated inside to help reduce cracking failure.
04-25-05, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by SonicRaT
60lbs on the end of a two foot level bouncing around with 800*C heat is going to crack eventually man, I tried everything to do it this way at first,
As for your further away from the manifold idea, no, it doesn't make sense for what you're saying. The hotside benefits from the heat and strong pulses the rotary engine gives it as it's close in it's path, allowing it to spool faster, spacing it further away reduces these benefits.
/constructive criticism?
As for your further away from the manifold idea, no, it doesn't make sense for what you're saying. The hotside benefits from the heat and strong pulses the rotary engine gives it as it's close in it's path, allowing it to spool faster, spacing it further away reduces these benefits.
/constructive criticism?
besides, is it not the same basic design as a stone mountain racing manifold, or a dragon motorsports manifold. Theirs seem to work just fine. Basically any aftermarket manifold is the same basic design.
I had the same concerns about weight too. It does seem like a lot to be sitting at the end of the pipes, I have been considering how to put in a brace to mount ont a framerail or something to add some support. I am not worried about the pipes cracking under heat, they are 2 inch ID, but the walls of the pipe are about 6 mm thick. Very thick stuff. Same stuff used in headers that have lasted for probably 10 years. I have a buddy that also used the same kind of pipe to make his turbo manifold and it lasted no prblems. Trust me, the pipes are strong enough, probably a little overkill if anything.
04-25-05, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by wpgrexx
Cool air is more powerful air. isnt that like leaving the stock intercooler on the top of the motor, instead of moving it in front of the rad? Anyways, it is not a stock turbo, read first post, this allows so much more access to things as well. Oh and the oil drain will work just fine if you index the turbo, which I have already done. no love here, I guess I should just use the same old stock parts to please the forum,HAHA!!!
huh?...cool air more powerful?....im not sure what u mean by this....u want cooler air at the intake side for obvious reasons...but when u move the IC to the front u creat a bigger volume to pressurize when u want to boost.....the TMIC was put there to make the intake cooling volume as small as possible to prevent the "delayed engine response"......
what i see wrong with this setup:
added exhaust pipes adds volume to the space between engine and turbo...like sonik says...the pulsing effects of the engine is reduced
added length to keep the turbo away from LIM....allows too much surface area for the exhaust gases to cool down....reducing its volume and velocity to spool the snail.then radiating all that heat energy onto the engine bay...but since ur gonna go ahead and do some coating im sure it'll be ok.....
like what the other guys said....its too much trouble to go through for the stock turbo..since the manifold already does what it was designed to do ....keep the intake/exhaust housings away from the engine block.not to mention with all the water/oil lines already there..im sure u'll have to fab up the cooling lines also....but hey..its ur money and ur time....props to ya.....
if it was me...i woulda just sent out the exhaust hotside, manifold and the DP to be coated...and call it a day.....if u want u can even coat the LIM to keep heat out....i dont plan to pull the LIM on a weekly basis anyway...
04-25-05, 10:25 AM
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If your gonna go to the trouble of doing that, why not go to a full t04, or something of the like?
The hybrids advantage is that you don't have to do that lol.
The hybrids advantage is that you don't have to do that lol.
04-25-05, 12:01 PM
#14
Haven't we ALL heard this
I wasn't pickn' on you man ... I was just curious on why you did it that way.
Good to see that somebody is DOING something different for a change. Most people post ideas like that and then get bashed on by teh forum. And never do it.
But you DID it and that is cool by me.
Post your results up!
The only thing I would be worried about is the cooling of the exhust before it hits the turbine. Maybe you could exhaust wrap the manifold?
James
Edit: I just re read and saw you wanted to coat the pipes. That should work And you now have plenty of room to put dual EGT probes in if you want.
Good to see that somebody is DOING something different for a change. Most people post ideas like that and then get bashed on by teh forum. And never do it.
But you DID it and that is cool by me.
Post your results up!
The only thing I would be worried about is the cooling of the exhust before it hits the turbine. Maybe you could exhaust wrap the manifold?
James
Edit: I just re read and saw you wanted to coat the pipes. That should work
And you now have plenty of room to put dual EGT probes in if you want.
Last edited by Wankel7; 04-25-05 at 12:08 PM.
04-25-05, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by wpgrexx
I understand what your saying, but the cooler air I meant was theintake air. Last year when the car was running before the last turbo blew, I could feel the TB and it was cold from the intercooler, but right where the air enters the engine at the LIM it was hot again from the turbo being an inch away on the stock manifold.
besides, is it not the same basic design as a stone mountain racing manifold, or a dragon motorsports manifold. Theirs seem to work just fine. Basically any aftermarket manifold is the same basic design.
I had the same concerns about weight too. It does seem like a lot to be sitting at the end of the pipes, I have been considering how to put in a brace to mount ont a framerail or something to add some support. I am not worried about the pipes cracking under heat, they are 2 inch ID, but the walls of the pipe are about 6 mm thick. Very thick stuff. Same stuff used in headers that have lasted for probably 10 years. I have a buddy that also used the same kind of pipe to make his turbo manifold and it lasted no prblems. Trust me, the pipes are strong enough, probably a little overkill if anything.
besides, is it not the same basic design as a stone mountain racing manifold, or a dragon motorsports manifold. Theirs seem to work just fine. Basically any aftermarket manifold is the same basic design.
I had the same concerns about weight too. It does seem like a lot to be sitting at the end of the pipes, I have been considering how to put in a brace to mount ont a framerail or something to add some support. I am not worried about the pipes cracking under heat, they are 2 inch ID, but the walls of the pipe are about 6 mm thick. Very thick stuff. Same stuff used in headers that have lasted for probably 10 years. I have a buddy that also used the same kind of pipe to make his turbo manifold and it lasted no prblems. Trust me, the pipes are strong enough, probably a little overkill if anything.
04-25-05, 09:59 PM
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This is wpgrexx just logged in at my bud's place. Anyways, thanks for the advice. I am planning on adding a couple of braces between the 2 pipes, as well as a brace to the motor, maybe around the waterpump or something to support the weight. I totally agree with the weight issue.
As for the oil and water lines, they are all custom anyways, since this is a mix and match motor. not a true s4 TII block. I really dont think spool up will be affected all that much, I can totally see where your points are coming from with the exhaust pulses, I will live with a little longer spool up in exchange for a colder intake charge and to have more accessibility to things. plus, I think it will look hella cool, and I like to do things different. If it really sucks than I make a different one. My total costs to build it was about 50 bux not including welding rods or gas. So its not like it cost lots.
Once the car is up and running and I take it to a dyno to tune the Haltech I will post results. Hopefully I can prove the naysayers wrong.
As for the oil and water lines, they are all custom anyways, since this is a mix and match motor. not a true s4 TII block. I really dont think spool up will be affected all that much, I can totally see where your points are coming from with the exhaust pulses, I will live with a little longer spool up in exchange for a colder intake charge and to have more accessibility to things. plus, I think it will look hella cool, and I like to do things different. If it really sucks than I make a different one. My total costs to build it was about 50 bux not including welding rods or gas. So its not like it cost lots.
Once the car is up and running and I take it to a dyno to tune the Haltech I will post results. Hopefully I can prove the naysayers wrong.
04-25-05, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by 300zx
This is wpgrexx just logged in at my bud's place. Anyways, thanks for the advice. I am planning on adding a couple of braces between the 2 pipes, as well as a brace to the motor, maybe around the waterpump or something to support the weight. I totally agree with the weight issue.
As for the oil and water lines, they are all custom anyways, since this is a mix and match motor. not a true s4 TII block. I really dont think spool up will be affected all that much, I can totally see where your points are coming from with the exhaust pulses, I will live with a little longer spool up in exchange for a colder intake charge and to have more accessibility to things. plus, I think it will look hella cool, and I like to do things different. If it really sucks than I make a different one. My total costs to build it was about 50 bux not including welding rods or gas. So its not like it cost lots.
Once the car is up and running and I take it to a dyno to tune the Haltech I will post results. Hopefully I can prove the naysayers wrong.
As for the oil and water lines, they are all custom anyways, since this is a mix and match motor. not a true s4 TII block. I really dont think spool up will be affected all that much, I can totally see where your points are coming from with the exhaust pulses, I will live with a little longer spool up in exchange for a colder intake charge and to have more accessibility to things. plus, I think it will look hella cool, and I like to do things different. If it really sucks than I make a different one. My total costs to build it was about 50 bux not including welding rods or gas. So its not like it cost lots.
Once the car is up and running and I take it to a dyno to tune the Haltech I will post results. Hopefully I can prove the naysayers wrong.
04-25-05, 10:48 PM
#18
The exhaust pulses are still separated and with the thermal coatings he will be using it greatly reduce and heat loss in that 18" span.
Not completely sure but i belive he is planning on upgrading the turbo next year.
As i see it the only drawback here is the length of the runners. But really, this is not a completely bad thing.... best i can compare it to is a shotgun; one with a long barrel and the other with a short one. Both will make a mess of whatever is at the end of it. Having the exhaust pulses 12-18" away wont make a huge difference, i think it will be superior to the stock manifold, not to mention all the benefits like less heat transfer to the LIM.
Keep me posted on the results!
Not completely sure but i belive he is planning on upgrading the turbo next year.
As i see it the only drawback here is the length of the runners. But really, this is not a completely bad thing.... best i can compare it to is a shotgun; one with a long barrel and the other with a short one. Both will make a mess of whatever is at the end of it. Having the exhaust pulses 12-18" away wont make a huge difference, i think it will be superior to the stock manifold, not to mention all the benefits like less heat transfer to the LIM.
Keep me posted on the results!
04-26-05, 01:12 AM
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Well, he's going to notice some lag since it's so far away from the pulse, as well as the additional bends he has in the manifold, but it is a rather creative way to combat the problem. I tried doing this myself, but with how hot under the hood got, and cracking welds (didn't have a support), I decided against it. Looks very damn good tho!
04-26-05, 01:25 AM
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I believe that the stock turbo with the stock manifold, is the most effective combination. The spool is instantanious, and the heat isnt bad all. Now if you have sufficient cooling of the charge air, then manifold heat is not a problem. The low temps of the air plus the added cooling that the fuel gives off should be enough to keep temps down..
04-26-05, 01:28 AM
#22
the lag will be "maybe" 100 RPM, I think the gains (if the manifold doesn't crack) will outweight the loss's of this setup. There is alot of misinformation running arround about turbos... and the like... for instance you are all talking about the exhaust pulses.. if the steel really is thick walled and he does ceramic (or similar) coat it.. and they are indeed mandrel bends, then he will notice AT MOST 100 rpm lag most likely on 50rpm.. do you guy's have any idea how fast the pulses and gasses are moving inside a 2 inch pipe? Same with intercoolers if the desing is good the so called turbo lag due to a front mount is negligable because of the added benefit to spool due to the denser air charge... it is all about ballance folks.
Good work I look forward to seeing the car in manitoba this summer we can compare tubular turbo manifold setups
Good work I look forward to seeing the car in manitoba this summer we can compare tubular turbo manifold setups
04-26-05, 06:44 AM
#24
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Hmmm...lesse...you move the turbo, but heat will still travel from the exhaust port / exhaust flange / beginning of the turbo manifold upward to the LIM.
Well...I guess you just dropped a few hundred degrees on the ambient.
Would you be willing to do air temp readings in the LIM to show the difference?
Yeah, I thought not.
Longer runners...hmmmm, I'd be surprised if you see a difference.
So you gonna do back-to-back dyno testing?
Yeah, I thought not also...
Never going to crack or fail?
Willing to put some money on that?
Oh, and before you go ragging on us naysayers, go brush up on your English comprehension...
I didn't say it wasn't going to work.
I said it was a waste of time.
Now class...can you tell us what the difference is?
-Ted
Well...I guess you just dropped a few hundred degrees on the ambient.
Would you be willing to do air temp readings in the LIM to show the difference?
Yeah, I thought not.
Longer runners...hmmmm, I'd be surprised if you see a difference.
So you gonna do back-to-back dyno testing?
Yeah, I thought not also...
Never going to crack or fail?
Willing to put some money on that?
Oh, and before you go ragging on us naysayers, go brush up on your English comprehension...
I didn't say it wasn't going to work.
I said it was a waste of time.
Now class...can you tell us what the difference is?
-Ted
