WonkoTheSane

iTrader: (2)

Hi guys, Since I'm sorta out of ideas why my car won't run unless it's cranking, I've decided to get rid of the key cylinder that was so loose you could pull the key most of the way out when it was running. I'm switching over to a push button start system, but I can't get the car to start. There's one whtie connector with 4 wires, two of which are the steering wheel lock, and two that I can't identify.. Please help me sort those ones out. I've attached an image that includes the FSM's section on the keylock cylinder, along with my current wiring schematic.

From what I can tell, the 4 wires from the white connector get shorted when the starter button is pressed, but this causes my starter to click like it's dead.. when I don't short them, the starter cranks the car, but it doesn't fire at all..

Thanks!

Parastie

When you click start, the ACC wire needs to be disconnected from everything, but the moment you release start it has to be bridged.

Are you doing this?

WonkoTheSane

iTrader: (2)

okay... so i'm going to have to put a relay on that guy.. . will it hurt anything to have it on during crank, other than lowering the availble amperage?

yes, I'm already most of the way done.. those 4 wires (two of which are steering wheel lock), is whats' throwing me, I think...

Parastie

It might be enough amperage to not allow the Starter to crank, but i'm not certain.
Also, IG2 must be disconnected while starting, but connected when running

pinkfloyd

if you do get it working can you do a wirte up with pics.........I know i will want to do this sometime

WonkoTheSane

iTrader: (2)

Parastie - I think that IG2 may be my problem.. i'm going to cut my wire and put in an alligator clip.. i'll be right back to tell you if that fixes it..

pinkfloyd - Sure, that's a rather good idea

WonkoTheSane

iTrader: (2)

It appears nothing detrimental happens if IG1, 2 and ACC are on when the car is cranking. I'm sure it will put more strain on the electrical system, but I have a brand new battery already, and a SilverRotor FD alternator 100+ Amp alternator inbound, so for now, I'm going to try to do this without relays.. (K.I.S.S.).

I've determined that the K1, and K2 (on the FSM diagram) are definately the steering wheel lock, and need to be shorted together (makes the steering wheel/key detector think that the key is in. I do not have a speaker, so I don't know if it's maknig the normal "key in, car off" beep.

That measn that the only two wires I can't figure out are L, and E on the FSM diagram..

I'm just not sure what they do.. If anyone has any ideas, I'm open

Parastie

You need to carefull disect the ingnition switch and find out what happens when you turn the key.

Or better yet, use a voltmeter, set it to ohms and go from one terminal to the other while turning.

WAYNE88N/A

Wonko, why don't you just replace the ignition switch?

Icemark

The steering wheel lock is mechanical not electrical. The K1 and K2 are the input and output for the key sense used in the CPU and factory security. Don't think that jumpering these together will prevent you from getting a steering lock. The steering wheel will still lock even if these to are jumpered together. They have nothing to do with the steering lock. The key will need to be turned past the acc position to prevent the steering wheel lock.

K1 and K2 need to be connected when the key is in (regardless of key position) the ignition switch.

L and E and start are all connected when the key is in the start position. E is for the ECU, and I forget what L is, but again it is only hot durning crank.

WonkoTheSane

iTrader: (2)

Wayne - Because I need the car to run for tommorrow.. the quickest I could get a cylinder from someone on line would be next week at the earliest.. There are no 2nd gen rx-7s within about 100 miles of me in a junk yard, and I don't know anyone parting one out locally..

It doesn't look like I'll have it running by tommorrow, however, because I got it to start with my setup, and it did mostly the same thing.. . except it ran for about a second or two after I stopped cranking it... blah....

Icemark - Where did you find the info on the keysenser? I know you're just a program written by Mazda to inform us unenlightened, but I seriously looked all throughout the FSM and Haynes manual looking for info?

Just to let you know, they're apparently not important to the actual starting of the car... because I have them disconnected, and there's no change...

The key sensor must use the wheel lock, because it does short them when the key is turned (wheel lock released).

Icemark

The Key sensor uses the mechanical part of the lock as a positioning sensor (I/E the sensor does not read until the key has been turned to the ACC position- and then stays active as long as the key is in the switch- even if the key is in the off but not removed position).

The wires are found in the CPU and alarm section of the shop manuals.

I use the Key sense wires for when I install an aftermarket security system, and diode the + lead into the ignition feed for a security system, so that ignition controlled door locks, don't unlock until you remove the key from the switch.

The Key sense wires are not important to start the car.. again they are only used by the CPU and the factory security.

However the E lead at the ECU is used to crank back the timing on the spark system to help start the car. The car will still start with it disconnected, but it will be harder to start.

And I only know these things because I have been working on 2nd gens since 86.