In NEED of help with recently bought 91 NA rx7 PLS READ ASAP
02-16-09 | 09:59 PM
#26
OK well first of all thank you all for replying back fast i really appreciate the help...
ok so i was able to fix and find a solution to the starter issue .. first of all ... i know this is going to make me sound like an idi&* .. but i had the battery on backwards .. the positive terminal with the ground cable and the negative terminal with the positive cable .. i know ... this makes a noob ... After this i installed a push start button inside the cabin so the starter now cranks the engine ... but
know that the engine cranks .. the car still wont start .. I checked if i had a spark and nothing .. i also checked the fuel pump to see if it wound make a sound when i would turn the key ... but nothing also ...
could i have burn/shorten a cable or fuse that makes the coils and the fuel pump work due to my noob mistake of putting the battery on backwards ???
and is there a way i can test if the coils are no good no more ?? and as well as the fuel pump ??
ok so i was able to fix and find a solution to the starter issue .. first of all ... i know this is going to make me sound like an idi&* .. but i had the battery on backwards .. the positive terminal with the ground cable and the negative terminal with the positive cable .. i know ... this makes a noob ... After this i installed a push start button inside the cabin so the starter now cranks the engine ... but
know that the engine cranks .. the car still wont start .. I checked if i had a spark and nothing .. i also checked the fuel pump to see if it wound make a sound when i would turn the key ... but nothing also ...
could i have burn/shorten a cable or fuse that makes the coils and the fuel pump work due to my noob mistake of putting the battery on backwards ???
and is there a way i can test if the coils are no good no more ?? and as well as the fuel pump ??
Putting the battery in backwards really fubars the FC electronics from what I remember, and you may have some significant amount of replacing of electronic internals to do to say the least.
02-17-09 | 06:57 AM
#27
Sit and Spin
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 472
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From: Latrobe, Pa
I am not sure you fubared the electronics, but I think the start button is the problem. THe fuel pump will only turn on if the KEY is in the START position. If this function is not wired into your START BUTTON, you get no fuel.
You may have popped your fuses in the engine bay. They are about 1 foot behind the battery on the passenger strut tower. Check them out with a voltmeter (DMM) and see if they have continuity.
I think at worst, you will be replacing a few fuses and maybe some minor electronic stuff.
You may have popped your fuses in the engine bay. They are about 1 foot behind the battery on the passenger strut tower. Check them out with a voltmeter (DMM) and see if they have continuity.
I think at worst, you will be replacing a few fuses and maybe some minor electronic stuff.
02-17-09 | 09:17 AM
#28
Fear,
Randomly testing things like the coils and fuel pump is just going to leave you tired and frustrated!
Get the wiring diagram I pointed you to earlier. Since everything starts with the battery, start from there. Installing the battery backwards isn't going to destroy the grounding cables so you can concentrate on just tracing voltage from the positive lead on the battery, thru the fuse boxes, to the key.
If you have power to the key, then you can test to see if you're getting power to the ECU. Then the fuel pump, and so on.
As noted earlier, I suggest using the Google search definition in my signature. If you enter the search string "HAILERS backward" (without the quotes) then you'll get several threads where people have installed their batteries backwards and then had to go thru the system to find out what they broke. HAILERS seems to know these electrical systems and the ECUs at a level that I think would make the Mazda engineers really uncomfortable!
You could also try "IceMark backward" as well. At one point he provided RX7 electronics refurbishing services so he knows a lot about it as well.
And dont forget you can take your alternator and starter to AutoZone, etc and get em tested for free.
Randomly testing things like the coils and fuel pump is just going to leave you tired and frustrated!
Get the wiring diagram I pointed you to earlier. Since everything starts with the battery, start from there. Installing the battery backwards isn't going to destroy the grounding cables so you can concentrate on just tracing voltage from the positive lead on the battery, thru the fuse boxes, to the key.
If you have power to the key, then you can test to see if you're getting power to the ECU. Then the fuel pump, and so on.
As noted earlier, I suggest using the Google search definition in my signature. If you enter the search string "HAILERS backward" (without the quotes) then you'll get several threads where people have installed their batteries backwards and then had to go thru the system to find out what they broke. HAILERS seems to know these electrical systems and the ECUs at a level that I think would make the Mazda engineers really uncomfortable!
You could also try "IceMark backward" as well. At one point he provided RX7 electronics refurbishing services so he knows a lot about it as well.And dont forget you can take your alternator and starter to AutoZone, etc and get em tested for free.
02-17-09 | 02:24 PM
#29
Hey dude listen... Don't pay any attention to the losers telling you to junk the car. If you like it then fix it up! If you have the spare cash it is worth it. My advice to you is sit down for a minute and form an attack plan. Get your wiring figured out, and test your compression, you can't go any further until you get to that point. Once you have the starter wiring fixed you can attack one thing at a time until you get the car running at least. Good luck!
02-17-09 | 03:05 PM
#30
In search of turbo...
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 102
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From: Indiana
You may have popped your fuses in the engine bay. They are about 1 foot behind the battery on the passenger strut tower. Check them out with a voltmeter (DMM) and see if they have continuity.
I think at worst, you will be replacing a few fuses and maybe some minor electronic stuff.
I think at worst, you will be replacing a few fuses and maybe some minor electronic stuff.
02-17-09 | 07:10 PM
#31
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 149
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From: Greensboro NC
since you bypassed the starter problem with a stand alone switch do the same thing to your fuel pump and put it on a switch to see if you can get the car to start; yeah man keep your car!! You knew you might have to put money into it and if you can get the car to run and stay on that low budget then you just got bragging rights and still came off with a good deal! I got my seven for a ps3 and 350, the guy told me it needed a clutch and couldn't get it to run. I put in new spark plugs and wires and drove it 8 miles to my house, clutch was fine it just needed a slave cylinder. Now i feel bad cause he is my friend and i feel like i ripped him off but you dont see me trying to part out my new seven or sell it... cold day in hell b4 that. You better believe i got on my knees and prayed for the car to crank up before the first time i tried it to so try that, nothing to lose from it.
02-17-09 | 10:31 PM
#32
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From: TX - El paso
I am not sure you fubared the electronics, but I think the start button is the problem. THe fuel pump will only turn on if the KEY is in the START position. If this function is not wired into your START BUTTON, you get no fuel.
You may have popped your fuses in the engine bay. They are about 1 foot behind the battery on the passenger strut tower. Check them out with a voltmeter (DMM) and see if they have continuity.
I think at worst, you will be replacing a few fuses and maybe some minor electronic stuff.
You may have popped your fuses in the engine bay. They are about 1 foot behind the battery on the passenger strut tower. Check them out with a voltmeter (DMM) and see if they have continuity.
I think at worst, you will be replacing a few fuses and maybe some minor electronic stuff.
As the engine fuses is concern i haven't checked them with a voltmeter but i know some of them are still working .. for example the headlights/retractor/and the BTN are still working cause the headlights light up and they go up and down .. and also i still have insight lights and the seat belts work. But i might have some of fuses inside the cabin blown ...
but i'll be sure to test and retest all of the fuses once more and maybe twice...
02-17-09 | 10:40 PM
#33
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From: TX - El paso
Fear,
Randomly testing things like the coils and fuel pump is just going to leave you tired and frustrated!
Get the wiring diagram I pointed you to earlier. Since everything starts with the battery, start from there. Installing the battery backwards isn't going to destroy the grounding cables so you can concentrate on just tracing voltage from the positive lead on the battery, thru the fuse boxes, to the key.
If you have power to the key, then you can test to see if you're getting power to the ECU. Then the fuel pump, and so on.
As noted earlier, I suggest using the Google search definition in my signature. If you enter the search string "HAILERS backward" (without the quotes) then you'll get several threads where people have installed their batteries backwards and then had to go thru the system to find out what they broke. HAILERS seems to know these electrical systems and the ECUs at a level that I think would make the Mazda engineers really uncomfortable! You could also try "IceMark backward" as well. At one point he provided RX7 electronics refurbishing services so he knows a lot about it as well.
And dont forget you can take your alternator and starter to AutoZone, etc and get em tested for free.
Randomly testing things like the coils and fuel pump is just going to leave you tired and frustrated!
Get the wiring diagram I pointed you to earlier. Since everything starts with the battery, start from there. Installing the battery backwards isn't going to destroy the grounding cables so you can concentrate on just tracing voltage from the positive lead on the battery, thru the fuse boxes, to the key.
If you have power to the key, then you can test to see if you're getting power to the ECU. Then the fuel pump, and so on.
As noted earlier, I suggest using the Google search definition in my signature. If you enter the search string "HAILERS backward" (without the quotes) then you'll get several threads where people have installed their batteries backwards and then had to go thru the system to find out what they broke. HAILERS seems to know these electrical systems and the ECUs at a level that I think would make the Mazda engineers really uncomfortable!
You could also try "IceMark backward" as well. At one point he provided RX7 electronics refurbishing services so he knows a lot about it as well.And dont forget you can take your alternator and starter to AutoZone, etc and get em tested for free.
The search engine is awesome .. i bearlly started using it but it has brought some useful info thanks
02-17-09 | 10:41 PM
#34
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From: TX - El paso
since you bypassed the starter problem with a stand alone switch do the same thing to your fuel pump and put it on a switch to see if you can get the car to start; yeah man keep your car!! You knew you might have to put money into it and if you can get the car to run and stay on that low budget then you just got bragging rights and still came off with a good deal! I got my seven for a ps3 and 350, the guy told me it needed a clutch and couldn't get it to run. I put in new spark plugs and wires and drove it 8 miles to my house, clutch was fine it just needed a slave cylinder. Now i feel bad cause he is my friend and i feel like i ripped him off but you dont see me trying to part out my new seven or sell it... cold day in hell b4 that. You better believe i got on my knees and prayed for the car to crank up before the first time i tried it to so try that, nothing to lose from it.
02-17-09 | 10:45 PM
#35
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From: TX - El paso
Here's the damage so far .. i think
ok well i think i have actually blow out my ecu .. i'm not sure but is this the way it's suppose to be ?
1st pic) just the ecu
2nd pic) it might be hard to see but the two of the poles things ( being pointed by the stick lol ) are black
3rd pic) The first of the three resistors is a greyish color .. there are a few other trios that are all blues exept this trio which happens to be the two black poles in the 2nd pic
4th pic) a different angle of the greyish resistor
5th pic) a different angle of the 2nd pic
Do i need a new/used ecu ?
1st pic) just the ecu
2nd pic) it might be hard to see but the two of the poles things ( being pointed by the stick lol ) are black
3rd pic) The first of the three resistors is a greyish color .. there are a few other trios that are all blues exept this trio which happens to be the two black poles in the 2nd pic
4th pic) a different angle of the greyish resistor
5th pic) a different angle of the 2nd pic
Do i need a new/used ecu ?
Last edited by fear740; 02-17-09 at 10:51 PM. Reason: Adding more info on the pics
02-17-09 | 11:03 PM
#37
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From: TX - El paso
one more question .. i was looking around the engine and i found this cube looking thing behind the oil filter that had a cable near it that was broken .. i was wondering if its important or REALLY important ?
02-18-09 | 12:25 AM
#38
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lolI'll look through the FSM to see if I can find it. Hopefully someone puts me out of my misery. :P
02-18-09 | 01:04 PM
#40
The cube thing is a capacitor or something and the oil pressure sensor grounds through it. You want the ring terminal grounded through the closest engine to transmission bolt.
To test the fuel pump circuit, have ign. on. There is a yellow two pin connector surrounded by a black rubber boot, near the filter box on the side where the air intake tube goes to the throttle body. When you jumper the two pins of this plug with a wire, you should hear the fuel pump turn on (ign. on) and pressurizing the fuel rails. You'll actually hear fuel running past the fuel pressure regulator and back to the tank. Essentially, you're grounding the fuel pump on the AFM circuit (if my memory is correct).
Let us know and we'll go from there.
edit: search "sensor pictures reference" and add my name under author/poster or whatever. I took a bunch of pics. many moons ago and labelled them.
To test the fuel pump circuit, have ign. on. There is a yellow two pin connector surrounded by a black rubber boot, near the filter box on the side where the air intake tube goes to the throttle body. When you jumper the two pins of this plug with a wire, you should hear the fuel pump turn on (ign. on) and pressurizing the fuel rails. You'll actually hear fuel running past the fuel pressure regulator and back to the tank. Essentially, you're grounding the fuel pump on the AFM circuit (if my memory is correct).
Let us know and we'll go from there.
edit: search "sensor pictures reference" and add my name under author/poster or whatever. I took a bunch of pics. many moons ago and labelled them.
02-18-09 | 05:12 PM
#41
Fear,
The fuel pump wont run if you just turn the key on. The ECU will wait until the AFM tells it that air is flowing into the engine (the engine is being turned over by the starter) and then it will tell the fuel pump to start. There is a procedure in the FSM to test the fuel pump. It involves jumping a yellow connector by your air filter.
On your ECU you're probably screwed. The good news is that there are a lot of NA ECUs around left over from turbo swaps.
The fuel pump wont run if you just turn the key on. The ECU will wait until the AFM tells it that air is flowing into the engine (the engine is being turned over by the starter) and then it will tell the fuel pump to start. There is a procedure in the FSM to test the fuel pump. It involves jumping a yellow connector by your air filter.
On your ECU you're probably screwed. The good news is that there are a lot of NA ECUs around left over from turbo swaps.
02-19-09 | 12:58 AM
#42
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From: TX - El paso
02-19-09 | 01:00 AM
#43
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From: TX - El paso
The cube thing is a capacitor or something and the oil pressure sensor grounds through it. You want the ring terminal grounded through the closest engine to transmission bolt.
To test the fuel pump circuit, have ign. on. There is a yellow two pin connector surrounded by a black rubber boot, near the filter box on the side where the air intake tube goes to the throttle body. When you jumper the two pins of this plug with a wire, you should hear the fuel pump turn on (ign. on) and pressurizing the fuel rails. You'll actually hear fuel running past the fuel pressure regulator and back to the tank. Essentially, you're grounding the fuel pump on the AFM circuit (if my memory is correct).
Let us know and we'll go from there.
edit: search "sensor pictures reference" and add my name under author/poster or whatever. I took a bunch of pics. many moons ago and labelled them.
To test the fuel pump circuit, have ign. on. There is a yellow two pin connector surrounded by a black rubber boot, near the filter box on the side where the air intake tube goes to the throttle body. When you jumper the two pins of this plug with a wire, you should hear the fuel pump turn on (ign. on) and pressurizing the fuel rails. You'll actually hear fuel running past the fuel pressure regulator and back to the tank. Essentially, you're grounding the fuel pump on the AFM circuit (if my memory is correct).
Let us know and we'll go from there.
edit: search "sensor pictures reference" and add my name under author/poster or whatever. I took a bunch of pics. many moons ago and labelled them.
haha i saw the cube in one of the pics ... ill try to solder the cube back to the wire so it won't give me any problems in the future
thanks
02-19-09 | 01:11 AM
#44
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From: TX - El paso
Good news !!!
well i was checking the main fuses in the engine bay and guess what i found .... a BLOWN FUSE ... i can't believe i didn't see it in the few past days .. sure did help to take a second look ... after replacing it and as well as the EGI just to be sure i was give the power of life inside the cabin ... all my lights and switches work they are suppose to ...
Once i finished messing with my new working switches i attempted to start the car...
but failed to do so ... I still don't get fuel into the engine and i don't hear a sound coming out of the tank ... as well no spark coming out of the coils ....
Does this mean i do need a new ECU ?
Once i finished messing with my new working switches i attempted to start the car...
but failed to do so ... I still don't get fuel into the engine and i don't hear a sound coming out of the tank ... as well no spark coming out of the coils ....
Does this mean i do need a new ECU ?
02-19-09 | 01:22 AM
#45
I recently bought a 91 NA rx7 in west Texas for 150 dollars (price drop from 500 after almost a year that he couldn't sell it ) from a guy down my street. With a few issues (That what i thought). ( but i can't complaint that much since i did pay 150 $ for it right ).
For some reason the car wouldn't go faster that 30 mph
according to the guy (could it be a clogged exhaust ??? or maybe something with the actual automatic transmission ???)
It has a leaking radiator ( Which is not a big issue since the leak is right on top of the radiator )
It's missing a rim ( no biggy right )
no battery
and now the big problems........
1) When i was placing a new battery into it's respective place, i noticed that there was a brown cable hanging freely right next to the battery.. but it didn't look like any of the other cables so i just left it alone... when i tried starting the car nothing ... not even a click ... so i go back to the battery and for some reason decided to touch the brown cable to the negative terminal and the starter started... so i went back to the cabin and turn the key and the car started... but i didn't realize i left the brown cable still connected until a few second later.... after which i went back to disconnected...
2) this is when i notice that the car has a weird idle that sounds like as if it fluctuating.. it goes from 700 rpms to 1200 rpms and back down and up again only for a few second then it returns to regular idle of 700 rpms...so i stop the engine since it does have a radiator leak..
After adding water to the radiator (for now until i fix the radiator ) i tried starting the car the same way i did the first time,, it wasn't starting, but since the fuel gauge was low i thought it was low on fuel. After going for some NOT SO CHEAP FUEL, i tried staring the car the same way but this time the starter was making a sound as if it was just free spinning
(price drop from 500 after almost a year that he couldn't sell it ) from a guy down my street. With a few issues (That what i thought). ( but i can't complaint that much since i did pay 150 $ for it right ).For some reason the car wouldn't go faster that 30 mph
according to the guy (could it be a clogged exhaust ??? or maybe something with the actual automatic transmission ???) It has a leaking radiator ( Which is not a big issue since the leak is right on top of the radiator )
It's missing a rim ( no biggy right )
no battery
and now the big problems........
1) When i was placing a new battery into it's respective place, i noticed that there was a brown cable hanging freely right next to the battery.. but it didn't look like any of the other cables so i just left it alone... when i tried starting the car nothing ... not even a click ... so i go back to the battery and for some reason decided to touch the brown cable to the negative terminal and the starter started... so i went back to the cabin and turn the key and the car started... but i didn't realize i left the brown cable still connected until a few second later.... after which i went back to disconnected...
2) this is when i notice that the car has a weird idle that sounds like as if it fluctuating.. it goes from 700 rpms to 1200 rpms and back down and up again only for a few second then it returns to regular idle of 700 rpms...so i stop the engine since it does have a radiator leak..
After adding water to the radiator (for now until i fix the radiator ) i tried starting the car the same way i did the first time,, it wasn't starting, but since the fuel gauge was low i thought it was low on fuel. After going for some NOT SO CHEAP FUEL, i tried staring the car the same way but this time the starter was making a sound as if it was just free spinning
you may want to test your starter. to see if it's coming out and engaging the flywheel. the weird idle may be many problems. vacuum leak, tps? try finding somebody who has a s5, and borrow their tps and see if it works. is the problem really the choke while your engine is attempting to heat up?
Your car won't go past 30 mph? will it go past 3,000 rpm? if not, it could be due to OMP failure sending a signal to your ECU, putting your rx7 into limp mode. and what gear are you in when you try to go past 30 mph? reverse?
just kidding. torque converter? for 150... you can get that car running good if you know the right people or have left-over parts. is the motor still good? getting good compression? seals intact and in good condition so you're not burning oil or coolant? does the transmission shift? just take into consideration the amount you'll have to spend to restore the car to a daily driver condition.
02-19-09 | 01:23 AM
#46
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From: TX - El paso
when i was looking around the warning lights i saw a few weird things that i'm not sure if they are normal behavior or not ...
on the 1st pic the Door/hatch/e-brake/check engine lights look brighter than the add coolant/fuel lights
and when i close the open door the door light goes to the brightest of the add coolant/fuel lights shown in the 3rd pic ... is this like normal behavior or is there something wrong ???
on the 1st pic the Door/hatch/e-brake/check engine lights look brighter than the add coolant/fuel lights
and when i close the open door the door light goes to the brightest of the add coolant/fuel lights shown in the 3rd pic ... is this like normal behavior or is there something wrong ???
02-19-09 | 01:24 AM
#47
well i was checking the main fuses in the engine bay and guess what i found .... a BLOWN FUSE ... i can't believe i didn't see it in the few past days .. sure did help to take a second look ... after replacing it and as well as the EGI just to be sure i was give the power of life inside the cabin ... all my lights and switches work they are suppose to ...
Once i finished messing with my new working switches i attempted to start the car...
but failed to do so ... I still don't get fuel into the engine and i don't hear a sound coming out of the tank ... as well no spark coming out of the coils ....
Does this mean i do need a new ECU ?
Once i finished messing with my new working switches i attempted to start the car...
but failed to do so ... I still don't get fuel into the engine and i don't hear a sound coming out of the tank ... as well no spark coming out of the coils ....
Does this mean i do need a new ECU ?
02-19-09 | 01:55 AM
#48
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Joined: Jan 2009
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From: TX - El paso
But ill check the fuel relay the fuel pump and the injectors just to be sure thanks
02-19-09 | 02:01 AM
#49
Rotard
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 172
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From: Elgin IL
part out the car. you will get bout 500 if the interior is good. the drive shaft, trany 02 sensor for 20$, oil sending unit, the engine the ecu, the mirrors, the lights the fenders the doors the bumpers....etc. if all that is in good shape then you will get another 7 just from selling all that.
You'll want to search on this, as I could be misremembering, but there was a thread referencing this topic not too long ago.
Putting the battery in backwards really fubars the FC electronics from what I remember, and you may have some significant amount of replacing of electronic internals to do to say the least.
Putting the battery in backwards really fubars the FC electronics from what I remember, and you may have some significant amount of replacing of electronic internals to do to say the least.
Hey dude listen... Don't pay any attention to the losers telling you to junk the car. If you like it then fix it up! If you have the spare cash it is worth it. My advice to you is sit down for a minute and form an attack plan. Get your wiring figured out, and test your compression, you can't go any further until you get to that point. Once you have the starter wiring fixed you can attack one thing at a time until you get the car running at least. Good luck!
02-19-09 | 02:04 AM
#50
Rotard
Joined: Jan 2007
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From: Elgin IL