NZConvertible

The FSM schematic (page 4A-2) does show the line from the split air pipe to one of the actuators (just before the check valve), but it's not very clear.

Icemark

see below picture

No, the dump line runs from the ACV to the air pump muffler under the passengers brake vent

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rotorpower27

thanks alot, i will try that,
one last question still stands, what is beter the stock configuration or like the above picture?

oh and in the picture above the aux ports are open always when your upove let say 4k rpm, even when you are decelarating?

thank you!!

importsown

Alright, thanks again all. I have set mine up similar to that picture, and its working great, other than my rear port is still sticking open, the front is working perfectly. This weekend i will be taking off my intake manifold and cleaning it best I can. THANKS AGAIN AND CHEERS

crazyasu

Icemark...I thought so too that your aux ports only work under load...but actually got proven wrong...when I took my car in to a rotary specialist mech...explained that my ACV wasn't working and I don't think my 5/6th ports are activating...he said let me check...popped the hood reved the engine and "bam" to my suprise..the linkage rods dropped...he said nah there working fine...that'll be $70 bucks...haha...JJ about the $$$ part...

Phantomkid

icemark sorry if this is a stupid question but what do you mean by exhaust velocity. i know that the airpump is used to lower HC and CO levels by providing more o2, but ive heard of the airpump being used to warm up the cat(not sure on rotarys) so that would mean your opening your 6th ports during warm up, not that its a bad thing. But back to my original question about the airpump working off exhaust velocity. apparently the actuators work on pressure and not vacuum, because pumping air into them activates them. You stated that it doesnt work on backpressure but if its not backpressure then wouldnt the exhuast be creating a vacuum and try to pull air from the split pipe.. Or does it work off the air that comes from the split pipe.. Sorry im interesting in knowing how these 6th ports work. thanks

NZConvertible

They don't work off exhaust velocity as such. They work off pressure in the exhaust pipe partly caused by velocity and partly caused by the restriction caused by the pipework system. "Backpressure" is a misleading term, but it's easily measured simply to putting a pressure gauge in the exhasut system. The more gas being pushed down the system (i.e. the higher the load), the higher the measured pressure will be. Pressure will be at it's highest at the very beginning of the system and zero at the very end.

Phantomkid

im still confused on velocity im under the impression that exhaust gases velocity would cause a vacuum, but with a restriction in the exhuast causes a pressure is created to push open the actuators. im confuse on how this is not considered a back pressure created by the restricive cats. Is it not considered a backpressure because it works at a certain rpm that pushes out more exhaust because of the heavier load. Sorry guys i think i have the concept but not totally.

NZConvertible

You're confusing yourself. All you have to understand is that if you push a fluid (exhaust gases in this case) down a pipe or duct there will always be pressure in there. The faster it's pushed, the higher the pressure will be. The more restrictive the path is, the higher the pressure will be.

Sideways7

iTrader: (7)

Thanks for clarifying NZ. Icemark's comment had me a bit confused but now it makes sense. Also, I thought that what caused the aux ports to stop working wasn't so much that the exhaust pipes were too big as that they were bigger than stock, which is what the aux ports were designed for.

NZConvertible

With the S4 6PI system anything but the stock exhaust is too big, because any exhaust upgrade is going to reduce backpressure. The system is designed to open the ports at a certain pressure, so the more you reduce backpressure the later the ports will open. This moves the opening point away from the optimum point, which will result in a drop in mid-range performance. If there's so little pressure the ports never open then you loose top-end as well, although I think that's more likely to be sticking sleeves as it only takes 2psi to open them.

IMO any upgrade to the S4 NA's exhaust should be accompanied by a swap to an electro-pneumatic system like the S5 has (air pump and solenoid valve). It's not that hard.

Red'vert

Is there any simple way to monitor the 6PI activation while driving? I was concerned about maintaining their proper operation when recently installing the RB FC3C downpipe and Random Technolgy "RX-7" cat (with pickup tube). I asked Jim Langer at RB if he thought the system would work properly and he said he suspected RT designed the "RX-7 compatible" cat to provide the proper pressure to the air tube.

Utilizing hyper-sensitive seat-of-the-pants analysis it seems like the actuation point may have moved up a bit.

I've got the RTEK-7 2.0 S4 NA pre-ordered and expected RSN. In addition to fuel and timing adjustments, it allegedly allows one to adjust the 6PI actuation point, so I'm assuming that will allow me to adjust back to the optimum point.

So, can one determine proper apparent actuation in neutral? Will it still be a true indication of actuation RPM at rest/neutral?

NZConvertible

I once saw on someone's web page where they'd had installed microswitches next to the actuators so the switches closed when the ports opened, and they turned on dash-mounted LED's. The biggest probelm I can see is the microswitches not handling the heat of the exhaust below.

There is no electrical/electronic operation of the S4 6PI system (only the S5's), so that ain't happening...

There are only two things that determine flow through (and hence pressure in) the exhaust; rpm and throttle position. It doesn't matter if you're in neutral in your driveway or at speed on the freeway, if the throttle is fully open the flow through the exhaust will be the same for the same rpm. The difference is that with no load the engine will rev up very quickly, and you'll need to close the throttle to avoid over-revving. This may happen too fast for the 6PI system to react properly.

Red'vert

That makes sense, I can see how you could fairly easily put in a little leaf switch to be closed by the actuator arm, and I guess you could monitor just one actuator. There are some industrial switches that should have no problem with the environment.

Sorry. My mistake. I mistook the "secondary staging" feature on the N/A RTEK-7 Stage 2. There is a feature which allows for adjusment of the secondary injectors RPM point from 3800, not for adjusting the 6PI system.

Makes sense again, thanks for the clarifications. Go AllBlacks.

-Rob

HAILERS

Buy a RTEK for the series four version.

You can arrange a solenoid to be actuated thru the RTEK to feed air to the aux port actuators at just about any rpm you select. You'd need the airpump to do that. Keep the airpump on the car. It cost no power to speak of to keep it.

Houpty GT

If someone wanted you can splice a wire onto the electric solenoid on the S5 motors and use that activate an idicator inside your cockpit.

I cleaned one of my front auxiliary port using B12 Chemtool Carb cleaner but ended up shooting the red plastic tube down the hole the rod/shaft goes into. I had to remove the upper intake manifold to retrieve it so make sure you hold onto the red tubes if you do this. The carb cleaner also ended up flooding my motor either from the carb cleaner or the washing of oil from the Apex seals. Be aware of this. There is a phillips screw which will probally strip out when you try to remove the auxiliary port rod/shaft. I had to grind the head off. Also, at some point during freeing the port valve or removing the ground-down phillips screw I ended up bending the rod, so beware of this.

I need to remove my rear Auxiliary Port Shaft to clean the valve because the valve moves farely easily but gets stuck in the open position once it is on. I may just try a bottle of fuel injector cleaner and see if that helps loosen it up a little more.

NZConvertible

I'd use two switches and two LED's to be sure both were working in unison.

Stuff the All Blacks, go Team New Zealand (America's Cup) and Team New Zealand (A1GP)!

Good thinking Batman.

Doing this will only tell you that the ECU is sending a signal. It won't tell you if the ports are actually opening or even if the solenoid is working. Plus this thread is about actuation of the S4's non-electronic 6PI system...

Red'vert

I bought it almost a month ago, need to send in the darn ECU...

So this would be a standard S5 type solenoid actuated conversion but you trigger the solenoid with the RPM switch from the RTEK 2.0?

HAILERS

Regular old solenoid off a series four or series five. But you need air Pressure to make a auxillary actuator or VDI work.

Any of those solenoids like the Orange, white, blue, yellow, grey, green. Just take one off a old car or use a useless one that already exists........like the EGR solenoid or in my very humble opinion, the FPR solenoid.

I did this on my 86na car. I had a SummitRacing RPM switch going to a common solenoid which actuated the auxillary ports (uses airpump air for the air source).

I was a Beta tester for the RTEK n/a version and I now use the RTEK to switch the solenoid on at a given rpm. Any rpm I wish it work at. Settled for 3800 rpm like the series five uses.

I really wann't much of a Beta tester. I got too involved with other things that were eating my lunch.

Red'vert

Thanks for the info. Need to do it.

RTEK 2.0 has just the one RPM trigger? I figure if I ever add N2O it would be nice to have two. If need be, i guess I'd just add another RPM switch like the Summit.

Funny, for a while I was confused by why you'd want a "window" switch. I was imagining your power windows automatically rolling up at WOT... Heh, people do that?

Sideways7

iTrader: (7)

I actually just picked up a lumbar air pump today that I am going to try to rig to work my VDI in conjunction with a RPM switch. I'm sure it can be done, I just need to figure out how.... If this doesn't work I might just break down and get a new air pump and do this method.

Turbo II Rotor

iTrader: (2)

If mine work when I rev it do I have too much back pressure?

Red'vert

That's killer. Like a pilot's g-suit.

Sideways7

iTrader: (7)

Yeah, I guess. lol
Some Fords and Chevy's have an air bladder in the back of the seat that you can inflate and deflate for lumbar support. My old 89 Mustang had one, and I hear Crown Vics do as well. I actually go mine out of a Caprice Classic cop car that was in the junkyard. I'm not 100% sure it will work because it is designed to hold the air pressure until you deflate it. Its probably going to take some work, but I like figuring out challenges like this. I have no idea when I'm actually going to have it figured out, but rest assured that I will make a post detailing what to do when/if I get it figured out.

Red'vert

No doubt the reason for the placement of the 6PI actuator tube on the S4 RB header...