HAILERS

You get the AWS 'cause it ain't hooked up. Has zip to do with running of the engine at all. Ignore it. Pin 3J on the ECU for both turbo and non turbo. The elect plug of the non turbo harness would not reach to the AWS solenoid on the turbo engine unless you extended the harness anyway.

Split air solenoid only works in fifth gear to add air to the split air pipe and has NO harmful effect on the running of the engine AT ALL if missing. Ignore. Pin 3I is for the split air on the ECU for both cars. I'm FAIRLY sure the JDM ACV has NO Split Air Solenoid at all........therefore the plug is not connected to the split air solenoid and that causes a fault code. Or is it the JDM ACV has no Port air solenoid??????????? I think it's no split air solenoid.

VDI does not exist on a turbo car so it ain't a hooked up and that gives you a code. LIfe gets complicated here. Pin 2M on non turbo is for VDI but 2M on turbo is KNOCK sensor. So if a turbo engine was put in with a non turbo harness left in place.......a problem might exist if one did not TAKE ACTION to remedy the 2M problem.

The only code that could effect things is the 2M if not connected to the KNOCK SENSOR.......but think about it. The harness is non turbo and that VDI plug isn't connected to anything at all. That would kick a code not being connected to anything. So think about it. IF you did not connect the KNOCK sensor to pin 2M, then this code cannot effect the running of the engine at all. And I seriously doubt you connected 2M to the knock sensor, or this thread would not exist if you had.

MEMORY tells me the JDM ECUs don't kick/show codes at all. Thats from the RUMOR MILL. I wouldn't waste time looking for a code from a JDM (engine fail light is what I mean). I THINK you can download codes from a JDM ECU the old fashion way like series four cars.

cumberlandrx7

Hmm ok I guess this is where things get strange.

I tested the 2 splices I had to make on the N/A harness with an ohmmeter.
Pin 3R - was 6-port induction solenoid, connects now to the turbo duty solenoid
Pin 2M - was VDI control sensor, now connects to knock sensor.

Both of these show as being solid connections in the harness and the knock sensor is connected to the connector that i tested for 2M.

Here are 2 photo's to make sure I just didnt make a silly mistake.

#1 is the turbo duty solenoid which connects to 3R.
I've even high lighted which pin in the connector connects to 3R.

#2 is the knock sensor, there is also a spare wire that came off the old 6 port induction solenoid but the one for the connecter goes to 2M.

#1
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/4658/imag0053z.jpg

#2
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/8965/imag0054f.jpg

HAILERS

To me the N351 non turbo ECU codes mean nothing ...because the wiring has been rearranged to fit the Turbo engine for those items that are throwing codes.

Something is WRONG with your 2M. You have a black/white wire connected to the knock sensors output wire. IF I'm right about that.......that is wrong. All the black/white are power wires when key is ON. It's the other wire that should be connected to the knock sensor. The Yellow/black wire goes to 2M from the VDI plug on the non turbo engine.

The non turb VDI plug should of had two wires. One black/white (pwr) and the yellow/black wire. You would have depinned the black /white and deadended it. Then taken the yellow black and connect it to the knock sensors single output wire on the..knock sensor. If you connect a non turbo ECU to this car like this......you'll get a VDI code......which in this case means zip.

OR did I read you wrong? I'm in a hurry right now. I assumed that is a non turbo EM harness on the turbo engine.

I don't see these items causing a non start especially if the knock sensor is disconnected from where it is right now.

cumberlandrx7

Hmm ok i'll take a look at the yellow/black wire, fix that up.

Bu then what is the best place to start looking for a problem like this?? vacuum leak? missing ground? bad harness?

Thanks again for the help.

HAILERS

For sure disconnect the knock sensor and get that out of the way. It has zip to do with starting.......but it seems you had batt voltage going to a input that only ever sees milivolts.

Know what I'd do???? Get that spare cas out of the old engine and connect it to the harness on the car.

Key to ON.

Go to the spare cas and spin it with your fingers. LIsten for spark and or clicking of the primary injectors. You might go to the LEAD coil assy and pull one of the two sparkplug wire out of it's bore and leave it approx 1/8" in front of the bore...or a bit less. Spin the CAS bottom gear with key ON and spark should occur.

IF no spark, then I'd find the CONTORL UNIT page of the FUEL AND EMISSIONS SECITON of the FSM and backprobe each wire on the ECU with key ON. All plugs on the ECU and everywhere else doing this.

You can unbolt the ECU and tilt it up to accesss the wire on the plugs. Use a paper clip or needle or whatever to backprobe the wires. Compare your readings with the CONTROL UNIT pages.

If you did have spark spinning the cas.......and the timing is right.........spray starter fluid into the air filter for three seconds and no more and start the engine. IF it starts you have a fuel delivery problem..........like fuel lines at the engine on wrong/backwards. Swap said lines.

This is a stock non turbo EM harness, right? Say yes.

Speed Channel is showing WASHED OUT spec truck *race* at 3pm central when they are supposed to show a REAL race called MOTOGP. This is ticking me off big time. NOBODY watches MASCAR events. Nobody that's knows squat. I've registered a complaint with speed channel. Pissed off big time.

cumberlandrx7

As far as I know the car was 100% stock when I got it so yes it should be a stock non turbo EM harness.

HAILERS

Key on.......spin spare cas bottom gear. You don't have to spin it super fast. Just spin it and listen for spark.......or lack of spark. Listen for clicking sounds while spinning the spare cas connected to the cars harness. Key ON, no turning of the starter. Not required.

Spark from the coils indiacates the ECU is good for spark and more than likely fuel injection pulsing. Lack of spark and no clicking sounds as you spin the spare cas connected to the harness indicates........something real bad. Make sure the ENGINE fuse is good if you hear no clicking/no spark.

cumberlandrx7

Ok, so a few updates on this. Sorry I haven't gotten a chance to work on it until today.

The wire connected to the knock sensor IS yellow/black.
I guess it's just hard to see in the photo.

I also unplugged the tps, no engine check light with the N370 ecu plugged in.

Also with the N370 ecu plugged in I did what you mentioned with the spare cas.

Got the old one out, connected it, key to ON, fuel pump I unplugged so as to not flood.
Spun the gear on the cas... and... nope.

The only sound I hear is the relay under the steering wheel clicking right after I spin, and again a few seconds after I stop.
Oh and the main fuse box has no broken fuses.

This sounds like bad news ... ugh... ok so now what??
Is it honestly checking every single connection on the harness?? and the checks from the FSM for all those components???
I already have most of the ecu pin-out and wiring diagrams printed out so I can start at it a.s.a.p.

Thx for the help HAILERS.

cumberlandrx7

Hmm should I have done this with the N351 ecu? there still is the possibility this ecu is not working.

The N351 on the other hand I know works...

IF the harness was changed before I bought it would it be easier to buy another harness or try and resolve the problems with the existing one??
or I guess that depends on how messed it is..??

HAILERS

I'd go to the ECU and see if the fuel injector wires have batt power with key ON. PUll the plug off and check all four wires in the plug for power. Should be there. IF not, then I'd wonder if the Main Relay is pulling in when the key is put to ON..or not.

Pins 1A and 1B should have pwer if the key is ON.

Fuel injector pins are 3W, 3X, 3Y and 3Z. All should have pwr if key is ON. Those wires are light green, light green/red, light green /Black and light green/white. Plug off and wires check in the plug itself.

3A, 3B, 3C and 3D all should be grounded and check them with the meter on ohms and at the wires in the plug with the plug off the ECU.

cumberlandrx7

Well, I feel like i'm at least getting somewhere now but something is still wrong.

I checked all the pins you said and here's what I got:

1A - no power (see below)
1B - power

3 W,X,Y,Z - all have power
3 A,B,C,D - all grounded

So I took a look at 1A in the wiring diagram and it runs straight to the battery (+) and passes through 2 fuses.
The BTN fuse in the main fuse box, and the ROOM fuse in the interior fuse box.

In the MAIN fuse box there was a 60A fuse in the (ABS) slot but there is no wire coming in form the bottom and the BTN 60A fuse was missing.
Luckily I had hundreds of electrical photo's from before and after the swap. The fuses never got touched and were already in the wrong place.
This was probably the previous owner but im not 100% sure it could have been me but I never had a reason to remove those fuses and dont remember even touching them.

So.. I moved the 60A fuse into the BTN slot. Now for the ROOM fuse.

On the interior fuse box there is supposed to be a 7.5A fuse in the ROOM slot but again, no fuse... not a single 7.5A in the fuse box at all. Strange again because I never touched those fuses either except to maybe check if they were blown but I would have put it back in or replaced it.

After finding a 7.5A fuse and putting it in I figured I would try and start the car.

With the N370 ecu it sounded different trying to start but still no luck, I checked for a spark and no spark at all.

I swapped in the N351 ecu and got better results with this.
It chugged along sounding like it was trying to start and getting close but no luck.
HOWEVER, there is a spark and it does sound like i'm getting a few successful fires here and there but it wont start.

I was just about to check the readings for all the ecu pins as per the FSM but alot of them seem to require a special testing unit so i'm kind of lost as to where to go from here.

cumberlandrx7

After posting the above I went into the garage and smelt gas, so I looked under the car.

There was a fair size puddle near the center of the rear subframe and I thought wtf maybe a line is leaking.

Once I got under the car I noticed it was actually coming out of the gaskets I have on my exhaust just after the Y split.

So.. is there really that much gas that it's leaking out any place it can in the exhaust???

And does that mean my injectors are not getting a pulsing signal but just staying wide open and flooding like crazy???

The thing is I didn't try and start it that many times... I was fairly cautious about flooding it too much.

HAILERS

You don't need the Mazda breakout box to check the input/output of the ECU wires.

You just unbolt the ECU so you can tilt the plug side up to access the wires in the plugs. Then you backprobe each wire with a meter lead. Use a needle/safety wire/paper clip/your choice.

Sounds like it's flooding severly. Try disabling the fuel pump by unplugging it. Then spray starter fluid into the air filter for no more than three seconds and start the car. Do it several times. It'll run for merely seconds at a time. Then replug the fuel pump and try agani. Use the ECU that was giving you the most support earlier.

cumberlandrx7

I managed to get it running with the N351 ecu after doing what you said with the starter fluid.

Once I got it running after plugging the fuel pump back in I noticed it sounded like it was running on 1 rotor.

I just quickly checked for spark just using my timing light that was sitting there.

Only 1 wire was showing it had a current running through it.
Ill test with a spark tester but i think im only getting 1 spark, could my coils be the cause??

cumberlandrx7

I checked and all the wires have a fairly solid spark.

One thing I did notice is that the leading fire much faster than the trailing but I assume this is how it always works.

Could this be the fuel lines reversed or maybe the injectors??

I appologize I know how to work on cars but im not very good at debugging the problem.

Thanks.

HAILERS

Both LEAD sparkplugs fire at the same time. Normal. Called *wasted spark*. So it may *seem* they are firing faster than trail.

Engine should run/idle normal without the trail coil even working. Make sure the trail sparkplug wires are going to the correnct top sparkplugs. If trail #1 and trail #2 are crossed the engine will rund funny.

IF it will run/start on it's own ans stay running for a couple of minutes, then it's unlikely the fuel lines are crossed.

The secondary fuel injector wires being crossed won't matter. Might make sure the Primay injector plugs are on the right primary injector. Might be the problem. Or one primary not getting power to it. That could be confirmed by looking at the ECU plug and making sure the fuel injector wires each have batt voltage on them when key is ON, engine OFF.

One rotor with **** ant poor compression will make it seem to run on one rotor..........cause it is running on one rotor. Pull both lower plugs and have someone spin the engine over while you hold a finger on first one open sparkplug hole then the other. The FEEL of your finger should be the same. If one rotor is **** ant poor and you do this, you cannot fail to miss the difference in the compression as the rotor tries to blow you finger off the sparkplug hole when spinning the engine over with the starter.

And you could find the fuel hose that comes off the fuel filter and follow it to the hard line on the engine. That should be the feed line. So you leave that line alone and remove the fuel hose off the other hardline next to it which should be the return line. PUt a piece of hose on the hardline you just removed the return lines hose off, and put this new piece of hoses other end in a container.

Now jumper the yellow two socket fuel pump check connector and put the key to ON. Fuel should flow FROM the engine hard line into the container proving the fuel lines are routed right on the engine.

cumberlandrx7

Ok that's what I figured about the *wasted spark* because I recall there only being 1 coil in that pack.

Before I go over the checks I did i'll explain the orientation I used just incase I got it wrong.

Rotor 1 is the Front rotor, the front rotor is the one closest to the radiator.
Rotor 2 is the Rear rotor, closest to the firewall.

If I am correct, T1 goes to the front rotor top spark plug (marked with a T)
L1 goes to the front rotor lower spark plug (marked with a L)
T2 and L2 go to the rear rotor with same top/bottom orientation.

If all this is correct, this is what I got.

The spark plug wires are connected properly, all have spark.

3 W,X,Y,Z pins on the ecu all have 12v

I unplugged the connectors and checked they all run to the correct pin on the ecu and they do.
I also checked the injectors and all of them have 13-14 ohms of resistance. (does not mean they aren't leaking, this is my next guess or is it not likely???)

I didn't get around to checking the fuel lines but like you said I assume they are correct but ill check tonight.

I tried plugging the bottom spark plug holes with my finger and they both feel the same and feel like they have decent compression.

Something strange to add, yesterday the car would not start... which I found weird because it was running the day before yesterday and nothing had been done.
I pulled the spark plugs for the quick compression check and they were both slightly covered in fuel, not soaked but a fair amount.

It still seems to be flooding and I tried twice with starter fluid but I didnt get the same result as the day before.

This is really starting to confuse me, here are 2 plugs I just wanted to know if they are supposed to be plugged into anything and if they would cause the engine not to run or run strangely.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/4227/imag0064j.jpg
I believe this is the connector for the water temp switch.

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/8655/imag0061y.jpg
Not sure about what this is but it connects to something on the side of the N/A and I don't think is used.


Seems like im at another dead end.

cumberlandrx7

The fuel lines are on correctly, the one from the fuel filter goes to the primary rail (lower) and the return line from the secondary rail (upper) goes to the return line.

I double checked which injector connector corresponds with which ecu pin and I accidently
had my wire touching the outside of the ecu and I still got a resistance reading on all 4
connectors... the one pin of each connector read 0.05 but whats weird is the other side read
over 100, it varied. I'm really confused on this...

HAILERS

Naw. Leave the fuel injector plugs on the injectors. Go to the ECU, and as an example, go to the plug that has the four fuel injector wires in it and pull that plug off.

Turn the key to ON. Probe the front primary fuel injector wire on the ECU plug with the plug off the ECU. Should show batt voltage.

Now pull the front primary fuel injectors plug off. NOW the meter at the ECU will show zip voltage. Reinstall the fuel injector plug. Batt voltage reappears showing you had the right plug on that injector.

Do the same with the remaining three injectors.

On a series five each fuel injector plug has a black/yellow power wire. The key ON sends pwr to the black/yellows...........pwr passes thru the fuel injector coil and .........goes to the ECU plug with the fuel injector inputs. So if you pull the ECU plug off and key is ON, fuel injector wire in that plug will have batt voltage. So if you pull a fuel injectors plug off it, then the batt voltage will disappear on the dedicated ECU wire at the ECU. If you had say the front primarys injector plug on the rear primary, and were probing at the ECU the Front primary wire, the the batt voltage would NOT disappear if you pull the elect plug off the front primary injector...........'cause it aint thar, it's on the rear primary when it should not be. That's just an example of what would happen if the primary injector plugs were swapped.

Alllllllll the above made sense to me when I wrote it.

cumberlandrx7

If all my rotor orientation and my primary is lower, secondary is higher, if that's all correct
then I have the plugs on correctly.

The readings read from 0.00 - 0.05v when I unplugged them and I matched the ecu pins with the correct plugs.

The one connecter is missing the locking clip, could it be maybe it is a loose connection? I remember all the pins having power when I tested it every other time though.

LunchboxCritter

iTrader: (9)

Are you positive you put an S5 engine in your car? check the numbers on the sides of the injectors and see which injectors you have (s4 & s5 are hi/low imp. differences). Also, find a non chipped N370 ecu to try in there. Hold on to that chipped ecu and later on you might find a $30.00 eprom writer and that chip to be a valuable tool.

Just my 2 cents. Good Luck.

cumberlandrx7

Hmm.. no i'm not really sure, i'm still learning as I go with this car and these engines.

I don't think everything would have matched so well during the swap though, the S4 from what
I know is similar but has its major differences.
I'll check tonight.

I think I may just exchange the ecu if it's chipped becuase if I can get this project running I eventually plan to go to a stand-alone setup.

HAILERS

IF the Main Relay pulls in, it feeds the fuel injectors batt pwr on the black/yellow wire of each injectors elect plug. Therefore if the injector plugs are on the injectors then you'll see batt voltage on the 3W, 3X, 3Y and 3Z pins on the ECU electrical plug whether or not the ECU plugs are connected to the ECU or not. The batt voltage is on the wire in the plug, NOT the pins inside the ECU jack. Power goes FROM the fuel injector to the ECU, not the other way around.

If the main relay is pulled in and you get no power on the ECU plug, then either the EGI fuse is blown or your on the wrong wires in the ECU plug. The wire colors are in the jpg I attached earlier. LIGHT GREEN.........LIGHT GREEN/RED.............LIGHT GREEN/WHITE and LIGHT GREEN/BLACK.

cumberlandrx7

So just an update. I did the test you said for a 3rd time and still the same result, the injectors were all properly ordered.

I put it back together and tried to start it and ya I got it started again but it still sounded strange.
It sounded like it was still running on 1 rotor so I wanted to see if there was anything going on in the rear rotor.
I unplugged the spark plug wire from the L2 coil and it had no affect on the running of the engine.
This told me something wasn't right in the rear rotor, so I go in was curious what would happen if I rev'd the engine.

After I rev'd it a couple of times I let off the gas to let it and idle and it sounded different.
Almost like it was running on both rotors now...
I went to the coil and unplugged the L2 again and it made a difference this time, did the same with L1 (which before if I pulled would have killed the engine) and it had an effect on the engine.

It seemed to be idling fine except maybe a little high, around 1300-1400 instead of 750 +/- 25rpm.

This was all done using the N351 ecu, I also took it for a test drive and i'm guessing any of the hesitation I noticed was from the lack of turbo ecu? regardless it ran fairly smooth.

So... if I get a working N370 it should run then since it ran on the N/A right?? oh it starts up everytime now too but can flood VERY quickly it seems.

I'm in the works of getting the N370 I bought exchanged just incase it was chipped.