FC Drifter

thank you!! it doesnt matter anymore to me. im out of this "discussion". nobody seems to agree anywhere in this thread, so i just give up. racing/griping/drifting/sliding is all too different to compare anyways. whatever...i give up

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

actually, i honestly don't know how i got into all of this crap, myself ... i meant what i said, when i said this thread was joke.

anyway, my last post here is just to recant, or rather modify, one of the things i said, which was it has no "practical" purposes in racing ... i just remembered that it does play a role in Rally (or Rallye) racing -

gen2ForCe

first off...dont act like u know everything in the wrold
second off...what are u basin this on? high school physics..trust me ive taken it..n most of it is BS...third off im not setting my self up for nothign im giving u the benefit of the doubt...n u want us the provide support ofr our argument? **** look at any race stupid! what do they do GRIP? it is u who is tryign to prove yourself not us....so quit crying about how we are hating on your inexperenice....im jus being impartial cuz who knows maybe u can be right nt hta will b cool but u gotta go n try to act like u know everything

gen2ForCe

n u know what! up to this damn point u havent provided no proof so quit wit your crap u act like u've already proved everythign u said..u havnt provided nothing...u dont got no legit argument....hell we got years and yeras of racing supporting us n u jus got "GIVE ME NUMBERS AND ILL GIVE U NUMBERS THAT PROVE IT..." ****...annoying the **** out of me..i was tryign to be middle but u know what i am offended

bobbin

Ok, my friend has been telling me about this post for a while so I had to see what was going on. I have to say that this made for some interesting reading because I'm a huge fanatic of debates and theories. This should not have been a debate, nor is it theory. It is track proven, race proven, everything car related proven that it is faster to "grip" a turn then it is to "drift" a turn. http://www.turnfast.com/tech_driving...ornering.lasso
That should make some fun reading about cornering.
I'm not saying that your theories are completely incorrect, but you see, real world applications say a lot more then "If you give me numbers, I can prove it." In fact, I would love to see you prove it in numbers. I thought as you did once. Blinded by highschool physics, I even dared to say that thinner tires would yield faster times at the drag strip. If you would like, I will tell you my reasoning behind that, but do know that highschool physics is mainly based on theory, on a closed system. kenetic friction is also the main type of friction discussed in highschool, not static friction, the kind of friction we talk about when we talk about tires and racing. All in all, It is more advantagous to increase the average mph of a straight line (out of the corner) then it is to increase the mph of the corner (entering speed) which is a smaller line. I'm pretty sure I'm regurgitating someone elses comment by now, but hey, I wanted to get in the fun too. Feel free to disagree, that's what debates are all about.

Oh, btw, my friend has spoken pretty highly of you peejay. I look forward to reading some of your engine swap posts.

If you do read the link I posted, please don't mistaken a little tire slip as drifting. It isn't.

gen2ForCe

is the "debate" finally over?

Ni5mo180SX

Hope so......

Center of The Universe

Just throw my opinion in here on the drift subject(seeing as it is a passion of mine).

Drifting is just a Skillfull show of driver control. It is done in Japan for Looks and Flair, They do races, and it is a Race tec., but its just for show most of the time.

You all have to admit it looks sexy and stylish.

DrifterFD3S

hey nismo, F1 cars DO use drift, its faint, like when they have no room to get to the other side of the track for the perfect line, and in chicanes they tend to lose traction on purpose as well. as for going and telling all the ENDURANCE racers to drift using 500$ each tires.... i think you need a reality check. initial D is not the only source of viewing drifting (yes it is a cartoon, but they have programs for how each car would act in each corner.) i have DL at least a freaking gig of drift videos in real life, and in tight corners, they seem to have a huge advantage over grip.

DrifterFD3S

lol to let the discussion go on!

jgathome

haha, now that was an interesting read
hated all over the place...hehe

gen2ForCe

this thread shall remain dead!!!! haha (o wait i might be bringing it back to life)

IwannaFC

now wait a minute. Notice initial D is mostly downhill. Does going downhill change anything about the whole whats faster, drifting or grip thing.

nemo

japanese drift racers (the authority in this matter, hands down...) agree that drift racing is slower than grip. hopefully this will quiet some highschool kid trying to prove that drift racing is faster than grip using AP Physics... trust me, go to college and study some more. there's nothing wrong with voicing your opinion but you have to admit that you have more to learn. good luck on your studies.

RylAssassin

haha im amazed this thread is back!! Also amazed at the way the polls have come out!! Its like 50/50
I posted this originally when i first bought my gxl and knew next to nothing about drifting or FC's. After about 500 posts and much more knowledge i feel the better drifter is the TII for obvious reasons.

Driftboy

Wow I just read this whole thread and it brings up very interesting points, but there are some variables left out. First off if were applying this argument to a real life situation then you have to realize that it all depends on the driver skill (every one has different skill almost no one has the same amount of skill), road conditions, road type, and the biggest one is where the race is being held and its length as well as the cars competing. Oh ay an another big variable is the type of race style it is and what your definition of drifting is. In my theory PureSephiroth is correct in many ways if you were racing lets say on a touge environment with a FC tuned for drifting and you were racing a 4 wheel drive car (with roughly the same amount of power) tuned for grip it is possible to win with drifting IF the race is moderately long and you use PureSephiroth's definition of drifting or if you were to use 4 wheel drifting and the course had many hairpin turns and not only did you use drifiting to be faster in the hairpins but if you used it to block the other persons line. But in the end each form of racing (grip and drift) have there advantages and disadvantages based on the conditions and course. But there is one thing for sure show or competition drifting in no way is faster than grip, but race oriented drifting can be in certain situations (The Drift King has showed us this many times) but in the end its hard to predict unless you were to actually hold a race because there are to many variables.
So in the end its impossible to tell which form of racing would be faster in a race.
sorry for starting this thread back up just wanted to post my theroy/oponion.

rx7freddie

someone said this in anther post . where are the best drifters . japan from 84 on up there has been turbo rx7s and turbo only rx 7s from 86 to whenever . it went something like that if anyone remembers .

genII Drifter

i thought this thread was about which was a better drifter, na or tII. all i've read for the past three pages is about what is faster drift or grip, I vote TII and grip.

RiceFx306

iTrader: (7)

I vote NA and grip. What would I buy and do TII and drift...just cuz I thinkwe all would...at least the TII part... Trust me he didn't take AP Physics lol. More drift comps are about driver skill over the vehicle, rather than the speed. A gig worth of videos Charlie? Uhmm I'm not sure, but I think you forgot the one where the famous drifter dood that did all the sounds for Initial D raced the hachi-roku using both grip and drift style and the the grip whooped the shyt out of it in just a matter of a few turns.

red xeven

can you people stop saying rpm's. Its not revolutions per minutess RPM!!!!!!! lol....seriously though...its ennoying

gen2ForCe

die.

SallBoutzTII

TII hands down!!!

sub9lulu

iTrader: (7)

yea
made it 50-50

theflatlander

iTrader: (3)

i've never driven a TII so I can't fully answer this poll but I like the control of my N/A so I'm going with N/A.

theloudroom

Gah,

I know this is a very old thread, but i just though I'd inject a little bit of logic in here:


Say your car's headed into a 90deg corner.
You want to take this corner as fast as possible.

Say you're an awesome driver and you manage to get the car completely sideways going into the turn. All you have to do is step on the gas to make it corner.

Is this faster? No.

Yes the car is already sideways, but rotating the car is not the problem. What you're trying to do is transfer the car's momentum from one direction to another. That's the hard part.

To do this efficiently, you must drive is such a way as to maximize the coefficient of friction between your car and the ground.

(Credit for above example must be given to the book "Going Faster")

Think about it this way:
When you're trying to break as quickly as possible do you want to lock your tires, or keep them rolling?

Rolling. Why? Because the have a higher coefficient of friction that way, allowing you to slow faster.

Cornering is the same. Once your tires start sliding, they're making less friction than they could be.

Note:
There is a slight exception to this. The difference between the direction your tires are pointed and a straight line down the center of the car is called the "slip angle". Tires have a certain slip angle where they produce their maximum traction. This is a small number of degrees. It is not "Drifting." If you're sideways, you've gone way past it, and are going slower than you should be.


"Drifting" is slow. Yeah, it looks cool. It looks cool when a top-fuel dragster burns out too. The guy in the other lane, who keeps traction wins.


Final note:
There is ONE case where "drifting" IS faster:
an EXTREMELY tight turn
A turn that is so tight, and so slow rotating the car is the hard/important part, not transferring momentum.
In a turn like this, the radius is so small that the speed you you drive normally through the corner becomes tiny. At the same time, the small radius of the turn allows you to actually slide into a position where you can drive out of the turn, sooner than driving normally would get you there.
In this case, you've thrown away the momentum your car had, because it was a very small amount of energy. Preserving it would have eaten up more time than it would take for your engine to produce it again.
Even in this case, you want to stop sliding as quickly as possible. You don't want to come out of the corner sideways. You want to be pointed in the direction you want to accelerate. Pointing your tires in another direction, wastes force you could be using to push the car where you actually want to go.