The ports on the Rx7 engine are there to create faster flow rate so that the inertia of the gas will cause air to pack into the combustion chamber even though the engine isn't turning fast enough to really suck much air.

The ports would continue to create the increased flow rate on a roots supercharged engine and it probably wouldn't hurt.

However the roots type SC is pumping (lets say) 2cc of air avery second and the engine can take 1cc of air every second. That will make 14psi of boost. If the engine only takes in .5cc in a second, the extra air will back up in the intake manifold. Now you have 2.5cc of air in the intake manifold on the next second because the SC just dumped 2cc more into the intake manifold.

That means that the boost will suddenly rise inside the intake manifold and higher boost will push harder into the combustion chamber until the pressure drops back down to 14.

On a V8 with the blower right on top of the valves you get huge pulsations because the engine is not sucking a constant amount of air but instead 4 pulses per revolution. Meanwhile the SC is putting out a pulse of air as each lobe comes past the output port.

A pulsation of 1L is huge in a 1L manifold but that same 1L pulse is 1/5 the size in a 5L intake manifold.

I'm just saying that in a relatively small intake manifold the pulsations will automatically compensate for any lack of "suck" from the engine. You just non't need the valves on a roots supercharged rotary.

I believe ENDYN already decided the same thing for VTEC engines.

ed

Eaton blowers twisted the rotors 30% to smooth out the flow, so the pulsation isn't that bad anymore.

True, the Eaton blower pulses less and a rotary engine has smoother intake so the size of the pulses can be much smaller but any time the engine fails to take air in, you get an automatic rise in pressure to compensate.

Any more pics
 

was wondering if you had any more pics and if you cold kind of tell me more of a step by step what you did to mount it seriously considering this on one of my 7's.

OMG!! :crazy:

I'm scrapping my Turbo stuff...

Anyone wanna buy an S3 turbo or manifold?

OMG!! :crazy:

r u serios?

u cannot b serios...

how to hook up the bypass actuator
 

I am new to this, what do you hook up the bypass actuator to?

Well... I haven't gotten any of it installed yet, and I don't have it all yet... So yes, I am serious. :)

so does anybody have any dyno numbers or 1/4 numbers on this sort of setup yet?

Has anyone heard from zbrown lately?

Wow, nice work. How did you extend the shaft? Wouldn't it cause more vibration when the shaft is so long?

I want one
 

How much would it cost me to have you make a set up like that for me ?
:D

Looking at Ebay Item 2477012674, I'm getting visions of a supercharged 1st gen... Can't be that tough after doing a whole turbo fb...

The shaft is made out of chromoloy (sp?), so its pretty stiff (no vibration that I noticed). There are 3 sealed bearings inside the outer casing that keep the extended supercharger shaft inplace. A guy made it for the probe. A place called e-racer.com also makes them, but only sells on ebay and I heard that their stuff is pretty flimsy.

Is the supercharger self contained? Do we still need to punch a hole in the oil pan?

m90 has a self contained oiling system.

so I don't own an RX7 but ...
 

Hey guys -- I figured I'd make a post and spell a few things about the eatons, what cars to look for and yes, there's even different and better ones.

For one, ALL thunderbirds from 89 to 95 that were the supercoupe (easy to spot, body kit factory) had an eaton and an intercooler. (some where saying some of them did, some didn't, etc etc etc. Supercoupe = blown = eaton m90, intercooler, special block, intake, heads, crank) The cougar XR7 had one from 89 to 90, exact same setup. However, the 94/95 supercoupes had a better m90 slapped on to it, so if you can swing it, there you go.

Now if you REALLY want to get serious, there's a couple companies out there that will rebuild and port the piss out of your m90. Check this site here. http://www.magnumpowers.com/tbrd_blwr_ser.html
http://www.supercoupeperformance.com

With a blower in good condition and the stock pulley will produce around 13psi of boost which is rather high for a car off the showroom floor. You might want to find a good pulley that'll hold the belt. I saw that little pulley the guy here used -- no way in hell that thing is going to hold -- he'll get mad belt slipage if he goes anywhere over 7. Some of "us" get slipage at 15psi, it'll burn the belt (you can smell it in the car). So a thick belt is always a good idea.

As for upkeep on the eaton, a lot of people commented that they're easy to take care of -- that is right, there's no oil tap BS to do, BUT you still need to change the oil in the m90 every so often (10k miles works just fine) and you can get the oil from plenty of places. The thing that fail the most on the eatons is the bearings at the back of the impellers and the bearing in the nose cone (causes a rattle), nose cone is most common problem.

So how can you tell one from the other when you're in the junk yard...
This is a 89/90 Cougar XR7, note no body kit, but the 7 spoke rims are a good indication.
http://www.sccoa.com/member/images/parham3.jpg
This is a 89/93 thunderbird, easy way to tell its an SC is the factory body kit.
http://www.sccoa.com/member/images/tetlow4.jpg
now a 94/95 is a little harder to find (NOT many were made) The front will tell one way or the other
http://www.sccoa.com/member/images/pappas1.jpg

If you really want to know anything and everything about the SC, ask over on SCCOA or TCCOA. A lot of good people on there that'd be more than happy to answer ....everything. :)

Hopes this helps.

any one got mounting bracket pics for the s/c?

No, I gave up on that long ago

I heard from someone that you cant run forced induction on n/a engines but i have a safc on my 88 gxl and i was wondering if you or someone can give me ther honest opion on this matter cause if i can Im there. that is a really nice setup on that rx by the way.

Well whoever you heard that from is obviously wrong. This person is running forced induction and it's working so there you go.

Where can I gat the correct (recomended) pulley? And the appropriate belt? Thanks

I also heard that n2o isnt good for rotary engines they told me that it would kill my apex seals is anyone here running nitrus if so can somebody please tell me the truth about this. thank you

Scathcar is the NO2 king here on the forum, search for number of his posts. NO2 can be run on rotary engines. And there is no "correct" pulley for this setup. zbrown calculated a 3 inch pulley on the SC, i don't know the math so you'll have to find someone who does.

ok.. its been a while since I had some time to look this thread over. QUESTION: would the M-62 work on a 13b N/A?
the m90 flows 1.5L/rev and max rpm for the SC is 12000.. and it also flows a max of 520-540 CFM.

the m62 flows 1L/rev and max rpm is 14,000 and flows a max of 440-460CFM.

the m62's came on pontiac gtp's .. bonneville SSEi's, olds LSS's and Park Ave Ultra's. The GTP makes 240hp. So.. if an M62 can provide enough air to not starve that 3.8L GTP engine.. I am assuming that it will work on the 13B. I would like to reasonably make about 240-250 hp.

ditto

that set up is pretty sweet.

zbrown. Excellent. Ran across this thread. Interesting stuff! Very Innovative! Good job! :)

eaton m62 supercharger
 

i see eaton makes a m62 supercharger for a Mercedes Benz that has a shorter configuration. it looks like it may fit a lot better than the m90. any opinions on the use of the m62? i have a pic but cannot figure out how to post it. can someone tell me how to post a pic on here?

email me the pic and i can post it for ya. luke_amstutz@mchsi.com

You should not notice any difference between the M62 and the M90 unless you are going to try to go higher than 275HP because the M62 is limited to around 460CFM but the M90 is limited to around 540CFM.

According to Eaton's graphs, it looks like the M62 is slightly less efficient at the same pressure and CFM than the M92 but I'd bet it's not enough to notice.

ed

ed
would you know if the eaton m62 supercharger in the mercedes slk 230 turns in the proper direction to use it for an rx-7 mod?
thanks
joe

I have no clue but if the engine turns the same way then the SC turns the same way.

I don't pay attention but the only engine that I regularly hear about turning in the opposite direction is Honda.

It's almost easier to mount a SC if the engine turns the wrong way because you can use a go-kart axle and second belt then you are free to mount the SC almost anywhere.

ed

MODS: Any chance of cleaning this mess up. Aaron called it on page 6 but was off by like 10 pages. This thread is informative, and yet full of crap. I also think you should cut individuals post count by 5 for every dumb arse post asking for the 1000th time for info on the brackets. By the way I volunteer this post to be the first one killed and my post count penalized.

ZBrown, I will be happy to do the write-up for you if you’re interested. I can give you a number to call collect, I will take the info down, send it to you for proofing. After the write-up is done I will add pics, put into adobe and send back to you so you can sell. You should charge a few of these annoying guys triple for all the arguning and gushing.

I say to close this thread to all except z and the mods. 20 pages – come on guys, this is a technical forum!

Your going to try and _sell_ a PDF file that is a write up for an amature project of slapping an old supercharger on a 13b?

:rlaugh:

Sorry....

no its more to shut the whiners up = persnally I will stick with converting my vert to a turbo. just trying to do the kid a favor :P

zbrown no longer has internet access. If you will remember, he's still in high school and only had access to the net while at school. If anyone wants to get info from him they're going to have to drive to where he lives and talk to him.

Hopefully someone actually will!!

Re: eaton m62 supercharger
 

That is the unit that I have been eyeing. Oooo I would love to do a write up on fabbing in that thing. U guys just don't realize how easy this actually is. Can't you see that all you need to do is make:

Brackets
Pipes
Pulleys
Fuel Pump change
SAFC installation
FMIC installation
Water Injection
FMU installation
Throttle body and AFM relocation
and perhaps install some TII injectors
Custom intake plenum chamber or use the TII UIM with some modification.
And then dyno tuning, and that's all there is to it.

Seriously, if u need a write up, it would be best to wait for someone to just offer a kit or set of plans, because the tuning of any aftermarket forced induction system is not for beginners, and you will lose your engine if the thing goes lean on you under boost. Hooking up the blower is about 20% of the process to doing it in a way that will make the engine last and make some respectable power. The Atkins kit puts out 185 crank horsepower because it has no intercooling. Any normal streetport six port 13b with a few intelligent mods can exceed 185 crank horsepower for a lot less than $3k.

Why water injection if you're going to have FMIC?

what exactly is water injection?

Because its safer, and you can run more boost.

The cooler the intake air, the better. Cooler air is more dense, with denser air you can run more fuel with the air. More air and fuel in the right mixture will make more power.

Why have shocks if you've got springs? Because they do different things.

An IC cools the air and water injection does too but more importantly, water injection also lenghthens the combustion event and also chemically interacts with combustion (water is not completely inert inside the combustion chamber).

Either one is good, both is better.

ed

^^thats what i want to do.

a whipple w/ a fmic...


for repectable(15-20) boost you need bigger injectors, a standalone, and a few sessions on the dyno.

Just think about having instant boost all the way to redline... too cool!

Sweet. Finally someone understands the whys of water injection. If it's good enough for the supercharged V12 P51 Mustang engine, it's good enough for my wankel.

Has anyone measured the intake air temps after the supercharger? I mean someone who has actually done this project. Maybe they are a lot lower than I have been imagining....probably are. Just curious (trying my best to get this thread over 21pages):D

You forgot this.


BUMP!


Ha!


On a more serious note, can the M90's be mounted in any 360 degree variation? Or must they specifically be in the one direction when mounted?

Oh, darn. He answered that on page 16. Disregard. Just 200 degrees at the inlet. Sorry to take up space and make this thread longer than it should be. Penalize me five posts, please. Read and answer the post just above this one, please.

A series four turboii intake will fit on a six port. What you have to do is get your Dremel Motor out with a barrel grinder on the end along with a six port intake gasket for a pattern. Put the gasket on the turbo ii intake manifold, scribe a line around the holes......then remove the gasket and grind for approx two hours (only takes about four to five replacement pads) to remove the excess material in the turboii intake. Then buy a turboii throttle body off Ebay to go with it........and while your at it buy a tubo and turbo exaust manifold off Ebay and skip the supercharger all together.:D Ahhhhh...I didn't say that, did I? Not nearly as much fun as putting the supercharger on and getting that low down torque.;)

With a stock turbo it'll spool by about 2500rpm, how much lower do you want your torque HAILERS? :)

As already established in this thread TWICE, you can mount it anywhere you can run a belt; upside-down, sideways and/or backwards.