2nd Generation Specific (1986-1992) 1986-1992 Discussion including performance modifications and technical support sections.

My first serious build... Suggestions???

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Old 02-09-09 | 09:38 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by 10thAEWHiteHeat
Well, I am not exactly poor but I don't have a large ready source of $ to tap in to.
Yes, there is a difference between having money and having money to spend on your car. All responsible people have a budget of some type.

Originally Posted by 10thAEWHiteHeat
1) Rebuild the motor w/ big streetport (should i stick with the S4 rotors?)
2) Mallory ignition
3) Install the Microtec off the bat
4) E-Fan
5) High flow radiator
6) Rebuild stock turbo with T3/4 turbine so i can make some decent power
7) port the manifolds or get S5's
Rotors - I don't think it really matters much. You don't need to get the motor rebalanced if you use the stock rotors, but S5 and later rotors are lighter. Your choice.
Mallory ignition - Why not use stock and save a few hundred dollars?
E-Fan - Install along with the new radiator
Compressor upgrade - Upgrade your fuel system first!
Ported/S5 manifolds - You mean intake manifolds? I am confused on this one.

Originally Posted by 10thAEWHiteHeat
What injectors should i run for this setup? And what other mods are recommended? How much power will i make on this setup on like 13lbs?
Fuel mods and power produced will depend a lot on what kind of turbo you choose. See the BNR website for hybrid power estimates:
http://www.bnrturbos.com/2ndGen.htm
RETed's website is also a good reference for staged upgrades:
http://fc3spro.com/TECH/FM2W/power.htm

Originally Posted by 10thAEWHiteHeat
Please hold nothing back i need to make sure i do this **** right..
Not gonna happen whatever you do. You can reduce errors by planning like this, but you will never do it right the first time. You may as well accept this fact of hotrodding now so that you do not beat yourself up for making all of the mistakes that you will surely make. Approximately 15% of the money I have in my car is the result of mistakes or changing my mind.

Also, as far as wanting to "do it right", it is sometimes not worth it to spend hundreds or thousands of extra dollars just to gain a couple of horsepower on a street car.

Originally Posted by 10thAEWHiteHeat
Oh and the motor is not in very good working condition i belive maybe a coolant seal the motor is being opened this week.
Bah, you will want to rebuild it first then. Oh well, you can add the Microtech next.
Old 02-09-09 | 10:02 PM
  #27  
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Ok how about this lol... I want to make 300-320whp with good throttle response but keep stock manifolds (or upgrade to S5 or port them). I am rebuilding and i am installing the microtec as per everyone's advice. What should i do along with those things that are necessary?? I already have FMIC, intak, exhaust, and 720cc secondaries. I am turning mu build over to you guys LOL.
Old 02-09-09 | 10:34 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Evil Aviator
Yeah, I wish. Originally I was going to use a race-modified NA transmission, which is nearly up to TII standards. Then I got to thinking it wasn't such a great idea since the engine is going to produce well over 400lb-ft torque, and the guys at Mazda Comp laughing about that pretty much cemented that idea as bad juju. Then I upgraded to a rebuilt TII transmission, only to find out that I can't find a TII sized flywheel for the 5.5" clutch. The bell housing modification was therefore a solution to make up for poor planning, although it should turn out superior to any of my bright ideas. Fortunately, I have friends and race shops in my corner to make up for my lack of mechanical know-how and inexperience in the automotive field.

Er, I mean I planned the whole thing myself, yeah, that's it.
Talk to Tom over @ 7'sOnly Racing. He knows how to get turbo sized flywheels that accept the 5.5" clutch. I was going to go this route with the 6-spd, but, the twin that I have is also the same part number for the TII as it is for the renni. I would consider it when I need to replace the Exedy

Originally Posted by Evil Aviator
Larger turbos, by definition, have a larger diameter, and therefore more inertia which makes them slower to spool. With everything else being equal, larger turbos have more lag, and that is the way it is unless you can figure out some way to defy physics.
pfffft - haahahaahaa. Advertising can bend space/time no?


Originally Posted by Evil Aviator
Meh, not really. With everything else being equal, the engine with the big turbo would pretty much equal the torque of the NA engine until the turbo hits its boost threshold. Even a high-end NA 13B has low-rpm torque problems due to massive porting, so that pretty much puts it in the same category as a turbocharged engine with a high boost threshold. At least the NA engine doesn't have any lag, but that would not show up on a dyno sheet.
Well, in the lower rpm ranges the larger turbo is acting as a plug in the exhaust.


Originally Posted by 10thAEWHiteHeat
Ok so first of all thanks for the wealth of info guys.. This is EXACTLY why i did this. Well, I am not exactly poor but I don't have a large ready source of $ to tap in to. I as well believe in doing everything right and this is why i am asking the opinion of you all. Now, what it sounds like i am going to do is the following..

1) Rebuild the motor w/ big streetport (should i stick with the S4 rotors?)
2) Mallory ignition
3) Install the Microtec off the bat
4) E-Fan
5) High flow radiator
6) Rebuild stock turbo with T3/4 turbine so i can make some decent power
7) port the manifolds or get S5's
1) You don't need a big streetport to make those power numbers. Bigger intake ports only hurt driveability. You should stick with the smallest ports to make the biggest power that you want. In your case, this is stock. Maybe slight porting to increase flow by smoothing the ports. That's really about it.

2) Don't bother. Stock ignition or even better, if the meecrotech can do it, 4 LSX coils

3) I would, save time later

4) Not necessary unless you're doing an HMIC/VMIC. Huge debat, not getting involved

5) Yes. I would look at dual oil coolers too especially if you're doing a FMIC. Something along the pure genius that TitaniumTT known for - https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/my-dual-mocal-oil-cooler-setup-805442/

6) I would still say look for a hybrid turbo. Talk to Bryan @ BNR turbo's

7) Talk to Bryan @ BNR turbo's. Generally porting/taking away material from a manifold that likes to crack isn't always the greatest idea.

Originally Posted by 10thAEWHiteHeat
I think this will be the best route to take and then when i am ready to make the investment in big turbo i will do so. What injectors should i run for this setup? And what other mods are recommended? How much power will i make on this setup on like 13lbs?
13PSI on what turbo?

Originally Posted by Evil Aviator
Not gonna happen whatever you do. You can reduce errors by planning like this, but you will never do it right the first time. You may as well accept this fact of hotrodding now so that you do not beat yourself up for making all of the mistakes that you will surely make. Approximately 15% of the money I have in my car is the result of mistakes or changing my mind.

Also, as far as wanting to "do it right", it is sometimes not worth it to spend hundreds or thousands of extra dollars just to gain a couple of horsepower on a street car.
15% is probably a good estimate. I think the more involved/unique the project is, the higher that number will go. For me anyway, it was more time than cost which alot of people (myself included) view as the same. I have MANY parts that I built, didn't like, scrapped, and started over with.

Originally Posted by 10thAEWHiteHeat
Ok how about this lol... I want to make 300-320whp with good throttle response but keep stock manifolds (or upgrade to S5 or port them). I am rebuilding and i am installing the microtec as per everyone's advice. What should i do along with those things that are necessary?? I already have FMIC, intak, exhaust, and 720cc secondaries. I am turning mu build over to you guys LOL.
Don't port anything, more finese the intake ports, maybe go a little larger on the exhaust but nothing agressive or large. Go with a hybrid turbo and give some thought to the rtek as well.
Old 02-10-09 | 01:08 AM
  #29  
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Ok so less aggressive on the ports.. Someone be specific as possible to me as i will be relaying this change of plans to my mechanic. I have always liked the BNR turbo's so this sounds like a great idea. As far as Rtek i am going stanalone and not wasting my money. I want 400+ WHP eventually and do not want to have to bother with installing the microtec after the fact.. So how about fuel?? What are all of the fuel mods i should go with for this amount of power?
Old 02-11-09 | 01:31 AM
  #30  
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Ok so someone explain to me the pro's and con's to having a mild streetport and a big one... I read about alot of people having big streetports.
Old 02-11-09 | 02:49 AM
  #31  
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Mate do a search... 1000's of posts on porting.

As for porting, Id only be recommending it in your case if you have to rebuild your engine.
Otherwise stock ports will get you over your current HP requirements.
Old 02-11-09 | 10:50 AM
  #32  
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The engine is being rebuilt as state earlier.. My goal is 315-350whp on a hybrid turbo and then eventually 400+ on a big turbo when i am finished.
Old 02-11-09 | 10:56 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by 10thAEWHiteHeat
Ok so someone explain to me the pro's and con's to having a mild streetport and a big one... I read about alot of people having big streetports.
For the second time - you should go with the smallest port that will allow you to get to your goals. In your case this would be a finessing of the stock ports. Maybe opening up the exhaust a bit more.

The larger the port, the worse the street manners.
Old 02-11-09 | 01:40 PM
  #34  
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I know.. I heard you the first time and I believe you.. I just want to get more opinions and technical explanations. So i guess let me put it this way (and i searched already there are alot of threads but not what i am looking for) what do i need to make more than 400WHP? (not now but eventually) Again.. pros and cons for mild vs aggressive... And i need recommendations for fuel in the 315whp to 350whp range please
Old 02-11-09 | 02:17 PM
  #35  
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J-Rat is making over 500 hp on stock ports
Plently of FD guys are making near 400RWHP on stock ports and "stock" turbos
The SMP Falken FD Block made 485 RWHP on a "med" port with a GT35R
The SMP Renni made 501 RWHP with some finessed stock ports, can't remember the turbo
BNR stage 3 is good for about 360RWHP and the Stage 4 made >400 with a "med" port
I plan to see 425+ with BNR Stage 3's and a "med" port.

The guy tuning the car has more say on the power than the turbo.

This is why people are telling you to rock an RTek and a BNR. Bolt on and plug in. Think about the cost between ~320-350 RWHP (BNR & Rtek can be done for about a grand) and eclipsing the 400 RWHP mark with some of the things that people are suggesting

GT35R - $1300
GOOD turbo manifold - $1000
Wastegate - $300
Cutstom Exhaust - I spent ~$500 and built it myself
Meecrotech and all sensors - Prob ~$2,000 when you're done
Tuning the damn thing - ?? but alot more than an Rtek

$4,000+ for an addition 50 hp. Is it worth it? Depends on what you want out of the car and what your wallet can handle. Driving around in my buddies hybrid/Rtek makes me wonder why people spend all this money on streetcars. If you're racing it, that's one thing, if you're like me, that's an entirely different set of problems.

I mentioned earlier that my 750/1000 combo should be good for roughly 400+ RWHP. Try to keep the injectors as close in size as possibly to reduce the chance of transition tuning issues. I also dropped my motor off with Tim Marren so he could build me some rails so I'd have unlimited injector selection. I'm not 100% sure on what's available as drop in injector replacements for the TII rails. Personally I think 550/1600 would be a difficult to tune smoothly but plenty have done it
Old 02-11-09 | 07:26 PM
  #36  
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Well i decided to go with a BNR stage2 as suggested by Bryan because the power band is much better and says i can see 340 to 350 with good tuning. Also decided on 720 primaries and 1000 secondaries with a Bosch fuel pump. Microtec LT10 is going in with the motor as well. As for the ports i told my mechanic to do 3/16 or a smidge bigger for the exhaust ports.. Does all this sound feasible and like a good build? With good tuning will i see those power numbers? Last thing i want to do is kid myself lol
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