is my car at deaths door?
02-19-10, 07:04 PM
#26
which i kind of have a big problem with since i am also a auto tech in school. i would rather risk ******* it up but also learn a thing or 2 along the way by doing it alone. i just don't get why he wouldn't cut me ANY kind of break. if someone lived close to me and needed some help workin on a rotary car i would be all over for that probably for free because that is ****** cool that someone else has the same interests in such a rare car. apparently to him its just about the cash and not about the cars anymore
02-19-10, 07:28 PM
#27
cliff notes of how the conversation went.
-i try to setup time to take my stuff to him
-he tells me 125 for seat brackets
-i try to haggle it down because those prices are REDICULOUS for fabricating
-he gets insulted tells me no way
-i explain why i think he should cut me some slack(see above post)
-he becomes a dick starts insulting me
-i get pissed and tell him ill just learn and master rebuilding rotary motors myself and offer my services to people in the area for cheaper
-he tells me theres no way and he has 15 years experience on me(not realizing i am off to a great start to do this already)
-i laugh
-i try to setup time to take my stuff to him
-he tells me 125 for seat brackets
-i try to haggle it down because those prices are REDICULOUS for fabricating
-he gets insulted tells me no way
-i explain why i think he should cut me some slack(see above post)
-he becomes a dick starts insulting me
-i get pissed and tell him ill just learn and master rebuilding rotary motors myself and offer my services to people in the area for cheaper
-he tells me theres no way and he has 15 years experience on me(not realizing i am off to a great start to do this already)
-i laugh
02-19-10, 08:05 PM
#28
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How old are you? $115 is a JOKE for something like seat brackets... they are a pain in the ***, and $50 a side seems like a good deal to me. ONE buddy club seat bracket is $150, so yeah.
Also, you gotta understand the first rule of business: If you're good at something, you don't do it for free. I can see how he could charge you $1200 instead of $1600 for a rebuild but no one is going to do it for free, it's ridiculous to think they would just because you have your car.
You gotta take into account the fact that the actual income the guy gets is nowhere close to what the shop charges you. Someone's gotta pay for the space, the lights, the tools, and all the other things like insurance, and etc. At the end of the day, if they charge you $80 shop rate, the mechanic would be lucky to get HALF that much for his work.
Hey, I have an FC too, can i **** your girlfriend... for free? =)
To that guy, you sounded just as ridiculous.
As far as "mastering" rotaries: Sure, in 15 years you can and might be a top notch builder, but i can guarantee 100% that your first rebuild will NOT be the same quality as his. Being good at things like this comes from experience, and doing it over, and over, and over..... and, you guessed it, over again untill your fingers bleed, your back hurts, and all you can think of are side seal clearances and eccentric shaft endplay.
Honestly, I know how you feel, I've been there before, but sometimes life is just more complicated than that.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EDIT: Here's how pricing works in most shops:
Lets say that the service manual says it takes 25 man hours to rebuild a rotary engine, including removal and install. This means that it will take the guy over 3 days to do it if he works 8 hour work days.
At the shop labor rate of $65, that makes the LABOR cost of a rebuild about $1650, and that's not including the rebuild kit that you need to purchase in order to do the repair. A lot of shops, like Banzai Racing, offer short block rebuilds for $1500. This means you will need to take it out and install it yourself, but it saves you labor cost over them having to do it.
Also, at 1500, they only really charge you $600 for the actual build, as the kits cost roughly $900 and up, depending on the model.
Also, you gotta understand the first rule of business: If you're good at something, you don't do it for free. I can see how he could charge you $1200 instead of $1600 for a rebuild but no one is going to do it for free, it's ridiculous to think they would just because you have your car.
You gotta take into account the fact that the actual income the guy gets is nowhere close to what the shop charges you. Someone's gotta pay for the space, the lights, the tools, and all the other things like insurance, and etc. At the end of the day, if they charge you $80 shop rate, the mechanic would be lucky to get HALF that much for his work.
Hey, I have an FC too, can i **** your girlfriend... for free? =)
To that guy, you sounded just as ridiculous.
As far as "mastering" rotaries: Sure, in 15 years you can and might be a top notch builder, but i can guarantee 100% that your first rebuild will NOT be the same quality as his. Being good at things like this comes from experience, and doing it over, and over, and over..... and, you guessed it, over again untill your fingers bleed, your back hurts, and all you can think of are side seal clearances and eccentric shaft endplay.
Honestly, I know how you feel, I've been there before, but sometimes life is just more complicated than that.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EDIT: Here's how pricing works in most shops:
Lets say that the service manual says it takes 25 man hours to rebuild a rotary engine, including removal and install. This means that it will take the guy over 3 days to do it if he works 8 hour work days.
At the shop labor rate of $65, that makes the LABOR cost of a rebuild about $1650, and that's not including the rebuild kit that you need to purchase in order to do the repair. A lot of shops, like Banzai Racing, offer short block rebuilds for $1500. This means you will need to take it out and install it yourself, but it saves you labor cost over them having to do it.
Also, at 1500, they only really charge you $600 for the actual build, as the kits cost roughly $900 and up, depending on the model.
02-19-10, 08:32 PM
#29
im 21. i go to school full time for automotive maintenance. i have rebuilt a few v8's but never a rotary, will be easy enough to learn. i also have 2 rebuilds lined up already. i would say i'm in a prefect position to take some of his business once i get it down.
i know how shop labor rates work but this guy told me that his business is just him and another guy and the other guy races and doesn't reallt wrench. he works out of his garage so as far as overhead goes im sure there isnt much. so yeah that is why i got a problem with paying "shop" rate for FABRICATING, not even wrenching.
anyways i already have a few experienced welders lined up who are more than willing to do it for what i want to pay.
i know how shop labor rates work but this guy told me that his business is just him and another guy and the other guy races and doesn't reallt wrench. he works out of his garage so as far as overhead goes im sure there isnt much. so yeah that is why i got a problem with paying "shop" rate for FABRICATING, not even wrenching.
anyways i already have a few experienced welders lined up who are more than willing to do it for what i want to pay.
02-19-10, 10:30 PM
#30
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well, in that case, power to you...
However, this:
Makes you come off as if you're 15.... with no experience.
What do you mean by "starts being a dick and insulting you?" I went to the web page. In the photo's was I believe Brian Peter's LSx drift car, BP is a cool dude, and he would never take his car to a shop with those kinds of antics. I think that perhaps they were busy and uninterested in extra work, and you overreacted?
Not trying to be a dick here, but get a better picture of what happened.
However, this:
cliff notes of how the conversation went.
-i try to setup time to take my stuff to him
-he tells me 125 for seat brackets
-i try to haggle it down because those prices are REDICULOUS for fabricating
-he gets insulted tells me no way
-i explain why i think he should cut me some slack(see above post)
-he becomes a dick starts insulting me
-i get pissed and tell him ill just learn and master rebuilding rotary motors myself and offer my services to people in the area for cheaper
-he tells me theres no way and he has 15 years experience on me(not realizing i am off to a great start to do this already)
-i laugh
-i try to setup time to take my stuff to him
-he tells me 125 for seat brackets
-i try to haggle it down because those prices are REDICULOUS for fabricating
-he gets insulted tells me no way
-i explain why i think he should cut me some slack(see above post)
-he becomes a dick starts insulting me
-i get pissed and tell him ill just learn and master rebuilding rotary motors myself and offer my services to people in the area for cheaper
-he tells me theres no way and he has 15 years experience on me(not realizing i am off to a great start to do this already)
-i laugh
What do you mean by "starts being a dick and insulting you?" I went to the web page. In the photo's was I believe Brian Peter's LSx drift car, BP is a cool dude, and he would never take his car to a shop with those kinds of antics. I think that perhaps they were busy and uninterested in extra work, and you overreacted?
Not trying to be a dick here, but get a better picture of what happened.
02-20-10, 09:44 AM
#31
i believe he called me spoiled punkass rich kid, which is what put me over the edge because up until that point i was just trying to make a deal. he also said some other stuff that i don't even remember but really im not gonna cry about it. the entire conversation the guy came off as extremely unprofessional and i dont know how anyone can stand to do business with him.
anyways doubt me now
anyways doubt me now
02-20-10, 11:35 PM
#32
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hello eveyone. i am the guy wich is being bashed because this guy came to me to have some seat brakets made, i quoted him $100 labor and $25 for the material. and i already had discounted him since my labor rate is $75 an hour and was figuring 1 hour per seat. i am laughing at all of this since i was messeged by another member from another forum about this subject so i had to check it out. i have a 3200 square foot building i work out of not my garage but you never stepped foot into my shop. if you would have you would have seen the amount of work i currently have , i am in the middle of building a new E Production rx7 , 6 motors one of wich is a 20b all aluminum for an airplane and i have an fd i am rebuilding . now your on here bashing me because i wouldnt cut you a break on labor, dude i just met you, you are no freind of mine nor do you have any clue on how a shop work. hell dude YOU DIDNT EVEN KNOW HOW TO DO A COOLENT PRESURE TEST ON YOUR OWN CAR!!!! you told me you had not learned it yet in school when i talked to you at the dealer. i say go ahead steel my buisness from me , i need the core motors. and the reason i have not opened up full time yet is because i build and work mostly on race cars. i keep my shop mostly quiet because i try and keep street yahoos out of my shop like yourself. everyone wants everything for free these days, just remember favors dont put food on the plate nor pay for housing or vehical payments. now please dude continue to pull your highschool drama bullshit cause its only making you look stupid and its giving me a laugh. randy
02-20-10, 11:56 PM
#33
hello eveyone. i am the guy wich is being bashed because this guy came to me to have some seat brakets made, i quoted him $100 labor and $25 for the material. and i already had discounted him since my labor rate is $75 an hour and was figuring 1 hour per seat. i am laughing at all of this since i was messeged by another member from another forum about this subject so i had to check it out. i have a 3200 square foot building i work out of not my garage but you never stepped foot into my shop. if you would have you would have seen the amount of work i currently have , i am in the middle of building a new E Production rx7 , 6 motors one of wich is a 20b all aluminum for an airplane and i have an fd i am rebuilding . now your on here bashing me because i wouldnt cut you a break on labor, dude i just met you, you are no freind of mine nor do you have any clue on how a shop work. hell dude YOU DIDNT EVEN KNOW HOW TO DO A COOLENT PRESURE TEST ON YOUR OWN CAR!!!! you told me you had not learned it yet in school when i talked to you at the dealer. i say go ahead steel my buisness from me , i need the core motors. and the reason i have not opened up full time yet is because i build and work mostly on race cars. i keep my shop mostly quiet because i try and keep street yahoos out of my shop like yourself. everyone wants everything for free these days, just remember favors dont put food on the plate nor pay for housing or vehical payments. now please dude continue to pull your highschool drama bullshit cause its only making you look stupid and its giving me a laugh. randy
I don't understand why you let it go past the quote stage. After you gave him a quote and he haggles, end of conversation.
People do the same thing when I quote them for a tint job. They're like "you work out of you garage??" If they don't like the price, they can do it themselves or have someone do it for cheap and watch it turn purple in six months.
I completely get you and I am amazed that someone could be so ignorant to throw a tantrum about labor prices.
02-21-10, 12:08 AM
#34
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I don't understand why you let it go past the quote stage. After you gave him a quote and he haggles, end of conversation.
People do the same thing when I quote them for a tint job. They're like "you work out of you garage??" If they don't like the price, they can do it themselves or have someone do it for cheap and watch it turn purple in six months.
I completely get you and I am amazed that someone could be so ignorant to throw a tantrum about labor prices.
02-21-10, 12:12 AM
#35
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trust me after his text Quote, 100 and we got a deal, thats 37.5 an hour labor figuring 2 hours, deal,,,,,,,,,,,sorry but good welding wages average 30-40 hourlyif you cant come down a bit i dont think i can bring work to you. i think im being generous, end quote. this was after i had already told him to find someone else to do the job. randy
02-21-10, 12:12 AM
#36
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now please dude continue to pull your highschool drama bullshit cause its only making you look stupid and its giving me a laugh.
02-21-10, 01:02 AM
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look, ya'll are being rediculous. I understand that this is a forum and ya'll have your freedom of speech, but ya'll are getting no where. This does not solve this guys problem. It was his choice to act the way he did, and it was the others to act in his response.
Im 17 and i can already see that you don't even need to take perfection into consideration just because of the short amount of experience you have. Perfection comes rare, and chances are that you won't get near it in a while. You need to be smart about your actions and look up and research things before you question. You can take another look at this and set yourself in a different direction.
Im 17 and i can already see that you don't even need to take perfection into consideration just because of the short amount of experience you have. Perfection comes rare, and chances are that you won't get near it in a while. You need to be smart about your actions and look up and research things before you question. You can take another look at this and set yourself in a different direction.
02-21-10, 02:43 AM
#39
yep i didn't/don't know how to do a coolant pressure test. would it take me 10 minutes to learn probably... would it take me another 20 minutes to do probably. in the end taking my car in to school and having my teachers help me do the test would take alot of time that i don't have right now since at the moment we are doing live work on customers cars. my teachers wouldn't be very happy about the whole situation since they know i have other cars and it is not an emergency.
so i decided to take my car in to the dealership because i knew someone there would be able to confirm whether or not there was an internal coolant leak, and also possibly tell me something else i may not have caught in my own inspection.
so in the end me taking my car in was not in any way because i am not capable, just very busy myself.
@slitherz, i would have no problem with that to be honest pm me if you want and we can set something up.
so i decided to take my car in to the dealership because i knew someone there would be able to confirm whether or not there was an internal coolant leak, and also possibly tell me something else i may not have caught in my own inspection.
so in the end me taking my car in was not in any way because i am not capable, just very busy myself.
@slitherz, i would have no problem with that to be honest pm me if you want and we can set something up.
02-21-10, 09:25 PM
#40
look, ya'll are being rediculous. I understand that this is a forum and ya'll have your freedom of speech, but ya'll are getting no where. This does not solve this guys problem. It was his choice to act the way he did, and it was the others to act in his response.
Im 17 and i can already see that you don't even need to take perfection into consideration just because of the short amount of experience you have. Perfection comes rare, and chances are that you won't get near it in a while. You need to be smart about your actions and look up and research things before you question. You can take another look at this and set yourself in a different direction.
Im 17 and i can already see that you don't even need to take perfection into consideration just because of the short amount of experience you have. Perfection comes rare, and chances are that you won't get near it in a while. You need to be smart about your actions and look up and research things before you question. You can take another look at this and set yourself in a different direction.
i would have no problem with that to be honest pm me if you want and we can set something up.
In this very thread, you couldn't do a leakdown test and now you are offering to rebuild engines? The cocky bullshit is getting to a ridiculous level now...
02-22-10, 11:41 AM
#42
maybe so but i will do it myself. he wants to charge me shop rate for work which i kind of have a big problem with since i am also a auto tech in school. i would rather risk ******* it up but also learn a thing or 2 along the way by doing it alone. i just don't get why he wouldn't cut me ANY kind of break. if someone lived close to me and needed some help workin on a rotary car i would be all over for that probably for free because that is ****** cool that someone else has the same interests in such a rare car. apparently to him its just about the cash and not about the cars anymore
which i kind of have a big problem with since i am also a auto tech in school. i would rather risk ******* it up but also learn a thing or 2 along the way by doing it alone. i just don't get why he wouldn't cut me ANY kind of break. if someone lived close to me and needed some help workin on a rotary car i would be all over for that probably for free because that is ****** cool that someone else has the same interests in such a rare car. apparently to him its just about the cash and not about the cars anymorerebuilding a rotary is time consuming if you want to do it right. if you want to do it yourself that's great but don't go crapping on people who do it for a living, this isn't a spare time hobby for everyone just like you will learn you won't want to fix cars for fun every single day of your life after you have been doing it for 20 years...
i would be insulted too if you start telling me what is and isn't rediculous. removing seats and making custom brackets isn't a ******* 5 minute job, kid.
honestly though, you're so full of yourself and i and he have probably seen so many entrepreneurs like you in rotaries and also seen the threads where people get ripped off by them that we know that you may do it for fun for a short while then you will maybe, just maybe want to do it to actually make some money more than you would make working at McD's or start jacking people and wind up with people hunting you down to take a piece of your ***. in the end, if you think you know more about the world than people twice your age, think again...
by the way, i charge more for fabricating because it is more stressful(because the longer it takes the more your other customers start bitching about how long their jobs are taking) and finding the right materials actually takes me much longer than the work i actually get done. driving out to find the right steel, filling up my argon, getting the right size fasteners and spacers...
you really have some things to learn, that in a short while you will enjoy your time away from work and will think twice about giving it away for free. when people come to me treating my time like a flea market you can bet i get offended too.
02-22-10, 05:13 PM
#43
There are more parts than you think. Just a word of advice, a chevrolet v8 is far and above easier than rebuilding a 13b. There are meticulous clearances and very specific procedures and the smallest mistake could cost you when it's time to start it up.
You're right you will find out. Just do me a favor and make a video.
02-22-10, 06:18 PM
#44
Wow.
There are more parts than you think. Just a word of advice, a chevrolet v8 is far and above easier than rebuilding a 13b. There are meticulous clearances and very specific procedures and the smallest mistake could cost you when it's time to start it up.
You're right you will find out. Just do me a favor and make a video.
There are more parts than you think. Just a word of advice, a chevrolet v8 is far and above easier than rebuilding a 13b. There are meticulous clearances and very specific procedures and the smallest mistake could cost you when it's time to start it up.
You're right you will find out. Just do me a favor and make a video.
idk how you think you only have to check clearances and have specific procedures for the 13b and the 13b only...
i have already printed out a shopkey step by step guide including, all specs for the motor. i also have a haynes book which is nowhere near as in depth but i expect it will come in handy here and there.
i bet the rebuild is easy
02-22-10, 06:54 PM
#45
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Wow.
idk how you think you only have to check clearances and have specific procedures for the 13b and the 13b only...
i have already printed out a shopkey step by step guide including, all specs for the motor. i also have a haynes book which is nowhere near as in depth but i expect it will come in handy here and there.
i bet the rebuild is easy
idk how you think you only have to check clearances and have specific procedures for the 13b and the 13b only...
i have already printed out a shopkey step by step guide including, all specs for the motor. i also have a haynes book which is nowhere near as in depth but i expect it will come in handy here and there.
i bet the rebuild is easy
02-22-10, 07:09 PM
#46
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ROFL.
I don't want you to rebuild my engine; after reading
13b's only need three moving parts to be complicated; another advantage they have over the piston engine.
I just hope you have some kleenex handy when you go to start your rebuild and it ignites.
I don't want you to rebuild my engine; after reading
i would bet a rotary motor is even easier(less parts), either way i will find out.
i bet the rebuild is easy
I just hope you have some kleenex handy when you go to start your rebuild and it ignites.
02-22-10, 07:22 PM
#47
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are you in need of a rebuild, posible port by chance. pm me or i can direct you to a few guys in your area i trust.
02-22-10, 07:39 PM
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are you in need of a rebuild, posible port by chance. pm me or i can direct you to a few guys in your area i trust.
Getting close right now. I'm either going to the guy that runs rotary resurrection or Banzai Racing. I had toyed with the idea of rebuilding myself but I want to make sure it lasts. Streetported daily driver = my dream.
02-22-10, 07:48 PM
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I'm actually trying to save up about 2.2k because I'm not sure how bad my internals are.
Getting close right now. I'm either going to the guy that runs rotary resurrection or Banzai Racing. I had toyed with the idea of rebuilding myself but I want to make sure it lasts. Streetported daily driver = my dream.
Getting close right now. I'm either going to the guy that runs rotary resurrection or Banzai Racing. I had toyed with the idea of rebuilding myself but I want to make sure it lasts. Streetported daily driver = my dream.