speed_monkey

You dont have to port ths **** out of a N/A to make power, infact it might hurt you. Size isnt everything, look at kahren's build.

rotorforce

From what I have read on his threads the stage 1 made 195whp with numerous mods, and that the stage 3 should make 230whp but would comprimise drivability and there are no dyno results yet. (at least I couldn't find any)

While making 195WHP on an N/A was ground braking, and I give Kahren much respect, it does not compare to the power realized from a TII with similiar porting and aftermarket intake and exhaust flow, fuel modifications, and ecu controllers...

Jager

iTrader: (10)

Don't forget to add that the 195HP had a cone filter, exhaust, stock fuel, a SAFC, and really only TII manifolds to make that power. I'm sure a TII with the same modifications would sky rocket in price (ala injectors, FMIC, fuel pump, EMS, and so on).

But then again, this ISN'T a NA vs TII thread, is it?

rotorforce

IMO there is no comparison, and I do not wish to debate this topic so consider this my post in this thread.

Jager

iTrader: (10)

So next time don't start a debate in this thread.

If anything you should tell him to swap a V8 more power and torque then a TII with the NA reliability for much less .

Kahren

iTrader: (13)

that 195 whp car didnt really have any special mods, it was a stage 1 port and a t2 port matched intake manifolds to teh 6 port engine. that was it, all the other mods are your average na mods. and that 195whp was conservative, 87 octane stock timing, and it would have made more power if it didnt lean out because of the stock injectors being insufficient.

you cant really comapare NA and turbo power, NA can make the same power as a very mildly modded t2, but it will not have the torque of a t2. the na will be suited much better at being a street driven car that you take to road race events often and lasting, where a t2 will need many more upgrades if its raced frequently. the NA will always be more reliable just from having less working parts as well as having a lot less chance of chewing apex seals. i am talking about healty rebuilt motors. not something that has a 150k miles and just started to get modifed and then beat on, those cars usualyl dont last more then a couple K miles.

these cars are basicly too old to just have a few bolt on's and be done with. most turbos will require a standalone and other external engine modifications to perform reliably. the person doing the wiring and installation as well as tuning the car afterwards is greatly responsible for the outcome of the vehicles behavior after all is completed. a badly executed install and tune and wrong selection of parts is much worse then a stock car, or sometimes even a worn out stock car.

since the NAs are nowhere near the susceptible to apex seal failure due to detonation and intake temp charges, is the reason the NAs really get away with having crappy old stock wiring and poor running conditions and still running and not blowing up, where a t2 will not put up with the abuse. this does not mean the NA is bulletproof, once the apex seals wore down enough, it is very easy to break them at that point as they get very thin and fragile, so if the car has many miles it is alwyas a great idea to rebuild.

synesthete

I'd never buy a pre-modified car, unless i planned on rebuilding it ALL. You know its probably had the **** driven out of it.

fcdrifter13

IE my current GTU(it seemed like such a good deal at the time) and no its not the one im putting the motor in.

rotorforce

Tell me where I started a debate in this thread? If anything the v8 comment you just made would start one.

Karhen thanks for your post, you make many great points. I see you live in CT, whereabouts? I'm just to the left of you in RI. Do you have a shop?

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Spend the money on a full tuneup, replacing all the worn bushings and suspension parts, a decent set of tires and then the leftover on day at the track at a driving school.

jgrts20

Well what I meant was speed is for the track or what not, Doing this stuff improve perfomance. I know cause I how my N/A modified but when you start a thread talking about speed will you have to understand lucky those kids in the Kia didnt take anyone else with them like a family. Theres other people on the roads you know and when you put kids behind the wheel sometimes they dont think so just be smart and watch out for others if you decide to be STUPID!! Myswell drive off a cliff and not worry about anyone else that way!!

POWER AND SPEED ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

Jager

iTrader: (10)

A debate? When the person asked how to modify his NA and you just go tell him to a buy a pre-modified TII that has had the **** driven out of it (how many people modify a car and don't get on it). That is how you started ****. Then you go on bashing NA's. I hope you're smart enough to notice where it started.

I mentioned the V8 swap because it's flat out better then a TII swap . If you want to talk about bang for the buck .

rotorforce

Oh really? So I was the only one in this thread that suggested that to him? Maybe your just pointing me out because I am honest and upfront guy or I am the noob with 550 posts in 3 months time?

Doesn't really matter to me..flame me if you want or talk as much **** but you too are suggesting v8 conversion which is just as "in your face" as me suggesting to buy a TII. I posted those links as an example that there are some TII's out there for less than 4k.

That's right only TII's get abused and not N/A's..

adrock3217

Err, you ever seen the inside of an abused T2 versus an abused NA? No contest, buddy...

Ever heard of an NA engine popping because the owner abused the car and overboosted, without fuel mods? Duhh, NO!

Point being, its rather hard to abuse an NA...

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

uhhhh, most of you are still talking about mods that are well over $1k. do a favor to the poster and try not posting on his thread because now it is just cluttered with BS.

Jager

iTrader: (10)

**** it. I'm done here, the mods here are just TII fanatics anyways and this with NA bashing won't ever stop.

FYI: The next time the thread says "How to make my NA fast for $1k" there should be suggestions on how to build a moderatly quick NA. Not suggestions for him to sell his car and buy a different one.

ddub

Well this thread has gone quite far off course. The thread starter can start a new one if he wants, but this is getting closed.

Next time stick to the topic at hand please.