main fuel injection relay
07-04-04, 05:23 PM
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main fuel injection relay
okay, im almost done with my swap. im getting spark and she cranks but wont start. i still have to hook up my tps on my tb, but the one i need is a s5 t2 tps, and its in the mail. i just have a s5 jdm tb off a t2, but i have a s4 harness and motor and such. everything but my tb is s4. i figured out how to hook up the new tps on the s5 tb and still have a s4 harness. the question i have is, is that the original owner had a distribution system instead of a lead and trailing spark system (n/a s4( i put back on the lead and trailing spark system)). he also has an aftermarket holley 6psi fuel pump that he threw in there. im getting fuel to the line that goes to the primary rail, but i dont know if im getting fuel through the injectors, cuz the injectors i dont think are working. i hooked up a s4 tps and had someone crank the motor while i was adjusting it. i had one of the spark plugs out and was checking it for any fuel coming out. will there be any fuel coming out? also i checked the manual and saw on page 270 in the haynes manual, on the bottom diagram of the front of the car, there was a main fuel injection relay (#23). i took of my trailing coil and checked for if there was one there, but to my suprise i found there were no relays except the starter relay. now i put t2 motor in, but never though of how he had the old motor setup. i think he had it carburated, and took off the injection relay. how possible is this? would he need to take out the injections relay's? and also there are connectors, (2 of them(in the haynes manual theres 2 relays...hmmm)) that is one grounded and the other is jumped. ill take a pic of the setup as soon as possible to show all of you. my problem might lie on the relays not existing. what should i do now? im going to look into this more. any help would be great. thanx
07-04-04, 05:39 PM
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Holy ****.
It is possible that he pulled the fuel injector fuse. That should be obvious since the injector fuse is not present.
I would wait until you have the proper and compatable TPS, wire harness, and ECU before you attempt to start the car. Adjusting the wrong TPS is not going to make the car start since you already know that the injectors aren't opening.
It is possible that he pulled the fuel injector fuse. That should be obvious since the injector fuse is not present.
I would wait until you have the proper and compatable TPS, wire harness, and ECU before you attempt to start the car. Adjusting the wrong TPS is not going to make the car start since you already know that the injectors aren't opening.
Last edited by Project84; 07-04-04 at 05:44 PM.
07-04-04, 05:45 PM
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hey, also, I would remove that 6psi fuel pump. There is no chance in hell that thing will supply enough fuel pressure for a EFI system. I will post more info when I further decipher your original message.
Edit: Thats about the extend of what I can tell you from the way its written.
Edit: Thats about the extend of what I can tell you from the way its written.
Last edited by Project84; 07-04-04 at 05:49 PM.
07-04-04, 05:46 PM
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Re: main fuel injection relay
Originally posted by Rx7MPGUY84
lol. c'mon guys. its not that much jibberish
lol. c'mon guys. its not that much jibberish
Originally posted by Rx7MPGUY84
okay, im almost done with my swap. im getting spark and she cranks but wont start.
i still have to hook up my tps on my tb, but the one i need is a s5 t2 tps, and its in the mail.
i just have a s5 jdm tb off a t2, but i have a s4 harness and motor and such. everything but my tb is s4. i figured out how to hook up the new tps on the s5 tb and still have a s4 harness.
the question i have is, is that the original owner had a distribution system instead of a lead and trailing spark system (n/a s4( i put back on the lead and trailing spark system)). he also has an aftermarket holley 6psi fuel pump that he threw in there.
im getting fuel to the line that goes to the primary rail, but i dont know if im getting fuel through the injectors, cuz the injectors i dont think are working. i hooked up a s4 tps and had someone crank the motor while i was adjusting it.
i had one of the spark plugs out and was checking it for any fuel coming out. will there be any fuel coming out? also i checked the manual and saw on page 270 in the haynes manual, on the bottom diagram of the front of the car, there was a main fuel injection relay (#23).
i took of my trailing coil and checked for if there was one there, but to my suprise i found there were no relays except the starter relay. now i put t2 motor in, but never though of how he had the old motor setup.
i think he had it carburated, and took off the injection relay. how possible is this? would he need to take out the injections relay's? and also there are connectors, (2 of them(in the haynes manual theres 2 relays...hmmm)) that is one grounded and the other is jumped. ill take a pic of the setup as soon as possible to show all of you.
my problem might lie on the relays not existing. what should i do now? im going to look into this more. any help would be great. thanx
okay, im almost done with my swap. im getting spark and she cranks but wont start.
i still have to hook up my tps on my tb, but the one i need is a s5 t2 tps, and its in the mail.
i just have a s5 jdm tb off a t2, but i have a s4 harness and motor and such. everything but my tb is s4. i figured out how to hook up the new tps on the s5 tb and still have a s4 harness.
the question i have is, is that the original owner had a distribution system instead of a lead and trailing spark system (n/a s4( i put back on the lead and trailing spark system)). he also has an aftermarket holley 6psi fuel pump that he threw in there.
im getting fuel to the line that goes to the primary rail, but i dont know if im getting fuel through the injectors, cuz the injectors i dont think are working. i hooked up a s4 tps and had someone crank the motor while i was adjusting it.
i had one of the spark plugs out and was checking it for any fuel coming out. will there be any fuel coming out? also i checked the manual and saw on page 270 in the haynes manual, on the bottom diagram of the front of the car, there was a main fuel injection relay (#23).
i took of my trailing coil and checked for if there was one there, but to my suprise i found there were no relays except the starter relay. now i put t2 motor in, but never though of how he had the old motor setup.
i think he had it carburated, and took off the injection relay. how possible is this? would he need to take out the injections relay's? and also there are connectors, (2 of them(in the haynes manual theres 2 relays...hmmm)) that is one grounded and the other is jumped. ill take a pic of the setup as soon as possible to show all of you.
my problem might lie on the relays not existing. what should i do now? im going to look into this more. any help would be great. thanx
For example... there is a carb fuel pump??? Well that wouldn't run a fuel injected system.
and as far as a relay... what is the fuel pump reading??? does it have 12 volts??? If it does, then the relay doesn't matter as it is not related to your problem.
Last edited by Icemark; 07-04-04 at 05:48 PM.
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07-04-04, 05:52 PM
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Get the proper fuel pump, get the fuse for the injectors (and what ever other fuses are missing) and get the right TPS for what your ECU will be expecting to read. Make sure the fuel pump primes when you turn the key, make sure the timing is set right, then see if it will start.
Short story is, you won't be driving it today. Sorry to rain on your parade.
Short story is, you won't be driving it today. Sorry to rain on your parade.
07-04-04, 06:02 PM
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what relay are you talking about? When you turn your key forward to the run position, do you hear a click form the engine bay? If so, that is the main relay. I think there isn't a relay for the fuel injectors, its a fuse. You are making it more difficult to understand when you call a fuse a relay.
07-04-04, 07:01 PM
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Well, this is what it looks like with the trailing coils removed. Don't mind the extra wires, or the cut wires. I have a stand alone engine management system, so a lot of the wiring in my car isn't stock.
07-04-04, 07:04 PM
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You could call the MAIN RELAY the fuel injector relay if you want, because........the MAIN RELAY feeds the 12v to the fuel injectors on a black/yellow wire.
You could call the MAIN RELAY the ignition relay if you want to, because it supplies 12v to the Lead and Trail coil assys.
You may not call the MAIN RELAY a fuse. I'm not sure you did though, but if you wanted to ....YOU MAY NOT.
Most MAIN RELAYS are located beneath the Trail Coil assy. It has TWO plugs going to it. Go look and see if you have a gold, large relay there that has two plugs. Now.
Then pull up the rug in the rear and see if the original fuel pump is there and or if the harness is still connected to it. The fuel pump has a harness about two feet long that mates with a plug on the back of the left rear strut tower. Under the rug.
Since you are getting spark.....I'd say the MAIN RELAY is probably still there.
There is a CIRCUIT OPENING RELAY that would have been better named a FUEL PUMP RELAY. That one is under the dash just above the steering column. It supplies 12v to the fuel pump.
IF the car came with THEFT PROTECTION, then it has a STARTER RELAY. If it did not have THEFT PROTECTION.......it does not have a STARTER RELAY. It will have a plug that would have gone to the relay and that plug will have a single jumper wire in it to make the path to the starter from the interlock switch on the clutch pedal.
gOD DAMNIT. I just re=read your post and I don't see a word about a fuse. Who's talking about fuses????????????????? Shouldn't ever read other answers, just screws things up and makes a muddle out of things.
You could call the MAIN RELAY the ignition relay if you want to, because it supplies 12v to the Lead and Trail coil assys.
You may not call the MAIN RELAY a fuse. I'm not sure you did though, but if you wanted to ....YOU MAY NOT.
Most MAIN RELAYS are located beneath the Trail Coil assy. It has TWO plugs going to it. Go look and see if you have a gold, large relay there that has two plugs. Now.
Then pull up the rug in the rear and see if the original fuel pump is there and or if the harness is still connected to it. The fuel pump has a harness about two feet long that mates with a plug on the back of the left rear strut tower. Under the rug.
Since you are getting spark.....I'd say the MAIN RELAY is probably still there.
There is a CIRCUIT OPENING RELAY that would have been better named a FUEL PUMP RELAY. That one is under the dash just above the steering column. It supplies 12v to the fuel pump.
IF the car came with THEFT PROTECTION, then it has a STARTER RELAY. If it did not have THEFT PROTECTION.......it does not have a STARTER RELAY. It will have a plug that would have gone to the relay and that plug will have a single jumper wire in it to make the path to the starter from the interlock switch on the clutch pedal.
gOD DAMNIT. I just re=read your post and I don't see a word about a fuse. Who's talking about fuses????????????????? Shouldn't ever read other answers, just screws things up and makes a muddle out of things.
07-04-04, 07:09 PM
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You cheated and put up a jpg while I was posting. I see you know what a MAIN RELAY is. That's good. Don't look for a FUEL RELAY in that area. It ain't thar. It's whar I said it was in my post above.
07-04-04, 07:30 PM
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The circuit open relay looks like this 
The 2 in the other picture I posted is what appears to be the fuel injector relays shown in the picture on page 270 item 23 in the Haynes manual. It may not be though.
The circuit open relay gives the fuel pump power based on: power from the main relay, key position, and whether or not there is a signal from the AFM which is generated by the opening of the flapper door inside.
The 2 in the other picture I posted is what appears to be the fuel injector relays shown in the picture on page 270 item 23 in the Haynes manual. It may not be though.
The circuit open relay gives the fuel pump power based on: power from the main relay, key position, and whether or not there is a signal from the AFM which is generated by the opening of the flapper door inside.
Last edited by Project84; 07-04-04 at 07:36 PM.
07-04-04, 07:43 PM
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There is/are no such thing as FUEL INJECTOR RELAYS in a MAZDA RX-7. I would buy me a FSM for this car and try my best to use the Haynes for reasonable things. Like when you run out of toilet paper, wanta roll a joint, tissue paper for the runny nose, a coaster for your cold beer as you work on the car.
I'll post a jpg of the circuit out of the fsm. This will of course take time since I'ver not been able to post a jpg on this site for over two years. I go the FC3S site and post in area fifty one there and copy the thread and repost on this site. That is time consuming, especially since I've posted that very same jpg about twenty times on this site and by magic it disappears, never to be seen again. But i can assure you all those pics of usless junk are archeived away and protected from any chance of being removed.
I'll post a jpg of the circuit out of the fsm. This will of course take time since I'ver not been able to post a jpg on this site for over two years. I go the FC3S site and post in area fifty one there and copy the thread and repost on this site. That is time consuming, especially since I've posted that very same jpg about twenty times on this site and by magic it disappears, never to be seen again. But i can assure you all those pics of usless junk are archeived away and protected from any chance of being removed.
07-04-04, 07:59 PM
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87Turboii, non turbo similar. http://www.teamfc3s.org/forum/showth...threadid=31384
07-04-04, 08:22 PM
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okay i have an aftermarket fuel pump, and the kid before me made his own wiring. its hooked up to a switch wich has to be in the on position to pump fuel. its not a cut off he said, but how u actually turn on and off the fuel pump.
now how does the injectors tell how much fuel to give the car?
and how does it get its power. does the afm and the tps tell how much fuel to give, or is it just the tps that tells the injectors how much fuel to give?
the wiring for the injectors goes to the ecu right? cuz from what im reading, theres no relay.
so is there a fuse on the car somewhere that could be blown that has some kinda connection to the injectors?
and yeah i never said anything about fuse in my first post.
now how does the injectors tell how much fuel to give the car?
and how does it get its power. does the afm and the tps tell how much fuel to give, or is it just the tps that tells the injectors how much fuel to give?
the wiring for the injectors goes to the ecu right? cuz from what im reading, theres no relay.
so is there a fuse on the car somewhere that could be blown that has some kinda connection to the injectors?
and yeah i never said anything about fuse in my first post.
07-04-04, 08:46 PM
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The Crank Angle Sensor has two pickoffs that send a small a/c voltage to the ECU. By magic and the art of electronics, the ECU knows now just where the rotor position is thru that signal. The ECU puts a ground on one of the two wires on each injector for a moment to open the injector. You NEED to read this: http://www.teamfc3s.org/info/articles/demystifying.html
The AFM is the major player in this delivery. The tps plays a small part. You can drive all day and night long without a tps.
The BLACK/YELLOW.....BY wire coming off the MAIN RELAY feeds the coils AND the injectors. I ain't a gonna jpg the other half of that schematic. It's shown on the other side of that jpg. The BLACK/YELLOW supplies the 12volta to the injectors. The ground wire for the injectors makes them pulse on and off. It's a DRIVER inside the ECU for each injector that pulses the ground to each injector to make them.....inject.
The FUSE would be the 15 amp fuse shown in the schematic I posted. It's called the ........ENGINE FUSE. located in the crew compartment. If the ENGINE FUSE is blown....the MAIN RELAY and the Circuit Opening Relay won't work.
Go to the ECU. Pull the small plug off. See if there is 12v on the pins 3c, e, f, and h. If it's there, it's not a fuse problem.
But seeing as how you have spark.....the ENGINE fuse ain''t blown.
The AFM is the major player in this delivery. The tps plays a small part. You can drive all day and night long without a tps.
The BLACK/YELLOW.....BY wire coming off the MAIN RELAY feeds the coils AND the injectors. I ain't a gonna jpg the other half of that schematic. It's shown on the other side of that jpg. The BLACK/YELLOW supplies the 12volta to the injectors. The ground wire for the injectors makes them pulse on and off. It's a DRIVER inside the ECU for each injector that pulses the ground to each injector to make them.....inject.
The FUSE would be the 15 amp fuse shown in the schematic I posted. It's called the ........ENGINE FUSE. located in the crew compartment. If the ENGINE FUSE is blown....the MAIN RELAY and the Circuit Opening Relay won't work.
Go to the ECU. Pull the small plug off. See if there is 12v on the pins 3c, e, f, and h. If it's there, it's not a fuse problem.
But seeing as how you have spark.....the ENGINE fuse ain''t blown.
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