GtoRx7.

iTrader: (12)

We originally had 10 spots open for this deal, now there is 7 left. Everyone will be considered for the program. Just post on this thread or send me a PM if you are interested. 12a, 13b 6-port, 13b 4-port, 13b full P-port, Bridge port, ALL types will be considered to join in R+D development.

The deal- Testers will purchase a Defined Autoworks prototype header that is built specifically for their engine setup and car. Cost will be a very discounted price. If no extra power is found vs. the existing header, tester can return for a full refund!
All headers carry a 1 year warranty.

What we need- Car must be using some type of programable ecu. so that the user has control over Air fuel, and timing. The tester agrees to visit a dyno before and after new header install. The tester also must have knowledge of how to tune the vehicle, or has access to a tuner. Once the results are found, the user agrees to publish the results on forums.

Pricing will vary from $480-580 depending on the application. Regular price is $750-800 so this is a heavy discount. We MAY also give a "sponsorship deal" if our decals are applied to the car, and the vehicle participates in some form of racing.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

Can you explain a bit about the product?

I think it's safe to say that common forum wisdom says that turboing a car is the preferred upgrade path, so it's going to be somewhat rare to find a NA owner with a standalone ECU, the money/desire to commit to two dyno sessions and be willing to pay- even at the discounted price- significantly more than for competitors systems.

AmT_T

iTrader: (11)

seems like a horrible deal. product should be free, especially what for what you are asking from the tester. You are charging the tester for the product, putting all the testing/tuning costs & risk into their hands. and you are coming out scot free with all of the good side of the deal.

farberio

iTrader: (7)

+1

(And I am one of the few with n/a ran by haltech)

Furb

iTrader: (2)

+3

AGreen

iTrader: (11)

Wow, i didnt even spend $750 on my TII swap.

Bamato

iTrader: (6)

That is a really steep asking price for that. And the cost of tuning/dynoing is on the tester? Ouch...

thejallenator

iTrader: (14)

but here is everyons big break to get sponsored!

its a nice header, but the discounted 500 bones is still way steep!!

hell for 350 you can buy a brand new RB stainless header.

FDWarrior

iTrader: (6)

"Its not being a guinea pig if the product has already been proven. This is not a new idea that we have, these headers have been developed for over 3 years The design is holding the current highest document n/a street port 13b, street port 20b, and semi p-port 20b. We would not offer a full money back guarantee if I thought each one wouldn't produce more power than any other header on the market."

This a two year old dyno chart of our 13b first gen street port.



Logan asked me to post this due to his internet acting up.

Any way you guys are funny. You realize a racing beat header is junk 304 stainless, built in china, and would never even be able to dream of making the above power. I wonder why an RB header is so much less money, probably why a chevy is less money than a BMW. There is no "testers wanted", it's more of a challenge being extended to you people. This header was also the grounds used to make the header on Logan's highest n/a power 3 rotor(short of full p-port) . I would probably make yourselves more informed on a company, and there product before posting. This header and this chart has been on this site for a while, along with the full development process.

AGreen

iTrader: (11)

mmmm....

Still, I'm just wondering who will drop that much cash to reach the peak of the NA power, when they could drop it on something that has a much higher ceiling?

Thumbs up for making an awesome header, but look at it this way: You're asking people to drop a lot of money on a something that may be awesome, but how do we know that? Racing beat has made a name for themselves for a reason. You offered a money back guarantee, if no extra power was found. I'm sorry, but I've never heard of "Defined Auto", so I find it hard to believe that people will blindly buy these headers, even with your current claims.

Edit:

I just looked at the picture and realized that you're even using the RB header flange. After bashing their product, you're trying to sell something they made!?

thejallenator

iTrader: (14)

sorry but that is not a real helpful picture. it doesnt show a before and after. just what im guessing is an after run on the dyno. how much power is gained from adding this?

Tofuman FC3S

iTrader: (1)

304 is junk?

thejallenator

iTrader: (14)

thats what im thinking. it wouldnt be used so vastly if it was junk.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

Given the thread title, it's hard to see your point here.
It is exactly a "testers wanted" plea.
What an interesting concept.

Along with the standalone ECU, the commitment to two dyno sessions and the high price, it's also my job to research the product and convince myself to buy in?
How about providing some data and selling me on the idea...it's called advertising.

Next thing you know it'll turn out that for the $500 all you get is plans for the headers and you build 'em yourself.

FDWarrior

iTrader: (6)

compared to 321 it is. Really a rotary should be using inconel for headers. The more heat you can keep inside the exhaust pipes the better. 304 is used so vastly because it's cheap. Inconel is not used so vastly because it's $300 for a u-bend, does this make 304 better than inconel?

FDWarrior

iTrader: (6)

Your 100% right. Logan really meant for this to be a challenge, not "testing". Logan just made a mistake in the wording of the add. The challenge is you get this header at a discount price, and if you don't make more power you get your money back. All of the testing has long been finished over the past couple of years. Honestly not every one really cares to have the most power, and thats perfectly fine. A RB $350 header for some ones daily driver is perfectly fine. You can't compare defined autoworks header to a header built for a different purpose, thus the price difference. This header has produced the highest power n/a 13b street port, and the highest power n/a 3 rotor- full p-ports. The research is done, and it's time to get the product out. A header ordered from defined will be custom length based off the intake and porting, no china junk does this. The reason for having to have a programable ecu is so the car can be tuned in order to get the power, contrary to popular belief tuning is required to make power.

FDWarrior

iTrader: (6)

This is the final result of testing the header in question. Here is the original thread https://www.rx7club.com/naturally-aspirated-performance-forum-220/make-230rwhp-streetport-13bre-n-818133/ . Logan posts the original power numbers. The header testing was done after everything else on the engine was done. The header is also adjustable to be matched to your intake length, but in this promo it is custom built to your intake length(this is important).

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

lol, I really like the 'you people' comment.

One guy says "Looking R&D Testers". It's a 'program'. You get 'considered' before you get to 'join in'. We might even 'sponsor' you...

The other guys sez, well, the testing and development has already been done, that it's long been finished over a period of years. The offer is really more of a 'challenge'.





Hows 'bout 'you people' get your story straight?

Derekcat

iTrader: (8)

"Type 321—similar to 304 but lower risk of weld decay due to addition of titanium."-Wikipedia
Cool. ^_^

Oh, and not sure what you meant by ....As their website clearly states I'm thinking you meant that their 304 stainless comes from china? [Though I thought that US made products had a purity requirement for metal]

Your header sounds great, but I also hadn't heard of your company till now.. I don't have the resources right now to even consider this, but I'd love to see the results if someone goes through with it.

FDWarrior

iTrader: (6)

Once again I apologize for mistake in word choice. Here is more data, the "test car started life at 185whp with an rb header. The below link was after Logan went through it the first time, so it starts at 206whp in the thread.

https://www.rx7club.com/naturally-aspirated-performance-forum-220/216rwhp-streetport-13bre-sure-did-take-while-801325/

We made a mistake in the way the program was advertised, now we are fixing it. All of the data is here in these link I have provided. Logan is well known in the rotary community. Defined is not just some over night shop trying to pawn off some junk to people. Thanks for the critique, that shows people do care where there money goes.

jjwalker

Agreed.

304 is plenty strong enough for the application and if you want heat retention, wrap it.

Inconel is an extremely hard alloy, ad hard to cast. I wonder how much it cost Mazda for each exaust port insert on the rotor housing.

thejallenator

iTrader: (14)

sorry but for the price its not worth 14 extra HP. and less torque. thats just not going to get that sold. people can get half, if not a whole turbo swap for the price you guys want for this.

FDWarrior

iTrader: (6)

Your right, but only for some people. Everyone has there car for a different reason. Some people race there car in classes where even 2whp is worth $500. Like I stated before, a cheap header is more than perfect for some people. Some people like the challenge of trying to get every last horse power out of there n/a. Im personally a turbo guy, but not every one is. There are people dedicated to n/a performance, and currently the stated 13b is the bench mark(of course with similar tuning paths, we all know a p-port engine and the like will make more power).

thejallenator

iTrader: (14)

well everyone knows theres not a lot you can squeeze outta that thing.

and in this game you either go turbo or stay slow. of course there are the rare occasions where a guy will p-port a motor, but then youre expecting to pay good money for exhaust. but even then the price is just stupid high. you can get about what that offers by spending a couple hundred for a for straigh pipe at the muffler shop.

jjwalker

Power is essentially the product of the RPM and the torque. When the torque peaks at a certain RPM and starts to drop off, the decrease is small and is not enough to offset the increasing RPM, so the overall product still increases. Eventually the decrease in torque becomes large enough that it outweighs the increase in RPM and we see the power start to drop. Because of this, the power peak will always be after the torque peak.

I pasted that from a good article because I didn't feel like typing it.

This is from me. I can apply torque to an object and not move the object at all.

No, I still don't really support what they are selling, but torque is not your god number, Power is (watts or HP depending on your country).

I do not understand the design of the header pictured. The bend on the rear housing is going to be a huge restriction. If I know my fluid dynamics correctly, you don't want equal length headers, but headers that correlate with the gas velocity/exhaust pulse rate. To make the perfect header, you need to design it around the restrictions in the exhaust flow, which will determine velocity and determine the pulse rate for RPM. Basically what I am saying, I cannot design the perfect header for my car and hand it to Joe 6 pack and expect the same result. It also has to be designed to be of maximum efficiency at a certain RPM, that being at the engines peak power producing RPM.

Everyones car makes that peak at different spots...