KOYO vs Fluidline vs Godspeed radiators
05-03-09 | 01:19 AM
#51
I wish I was driving!
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,241
Likes: 84
From: BC, Canada
Here is one reason a dual pass radiator is better than a single pass:
The two major designs for radiators are vertical flow and horizontal flow. As far as efficiency is concerned, there is no advantage to horizontal-flow radiators other than that they tend to allow a larger core to fit into a given engine compartment. Virtually all production-based radiators are built with a single-pass design, where coolant enters from the engine into the top of the radiator and travels across the core to the outlet on the opposite side. While dual-pass radiators have been around for a long time, they are now beginning to show up in high-performance and racing applications. A dual-pass horizontal-flow radiator moves coolant across the top half of the radiator on the first pass, then directs the coolant across the lower portion of the radiator face for a second pass. One reason this works is because the velocity of the coolant roughly doubles when the coolant is forced to travel across half as many tubes per pass. This creates turbulence in the tubes, exposing more coolant to the radiator tube walls and improving heat transfer. This also presents an increased load to the water pump, which means using a dual-pass radiator demands a better water pump if the system is to take advantage of the dual-pass concept.
Thanks Robert
The two major designs for radiators are vertical flow and horizontal flow. As far as efficiency is concerned, there is no advantage to horizontal-flow radiators other than that they tend to allow a larger core to fit into a given engine compartment. Virtually all production-based radiators are built with a single-pass design, where coolant enters from the engine into the top of the radiator and travels across the core to the outlet on the opposite side. While dual-pass radiators have been around for a long time, they are now beginning to show up in high-performance and racing applications. A dual-pass horizontal-flow radiator moves coolant across the top half of the radiator on the first pass, then directs the coolant across the lower portion of the radiator face for a second pass. One reason this works is because the velocity of the coolant roughly doubles when the coolant is forced to travel across half as many tubes per pass. This creates turbulence in the tubes, exposing more coolant to the radiator tube walls and improving heat transfer. This also presents an increased load to the water pump, which means using a dual-pass radiator demands a better water pump if the system is to take advantage of the dual-pass concept.
Thanks Robert
05-03-09 | 09:33 AM
#53
05-03-09 | 09:35 AM
#54
Senior Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 437
Likes: 0
From: Norway
Koyo`s for me, heard most good things about it and im running one myself.
That would make the intake and output of the radiator on the same side?
Here is one reason a dual pass radiator is better than a single pass:
The two major designs for radiators are vertical flow and horizontal flow. As far as efficiency is concerned, there is no advantage to horizontal-flow radiators other than that they tend to allow a larger core to fit into a given engine compartment. Virtually all production-based radiators are built with a single-pass design, where coolant enters from the engine into the top of the radiator and travels across the core to the outlet on the opposite side. While dual-pass radiators have been around for a long time, they are now beginning to show up in high-performance and racing applications. A dual-pass horizontal-flow radiator moves coolant across the top half of the radiator on the first pass, then directs the coolant across the lower portion of the radiator face for a second pass. One reason this works is because the velocity of the coolant roughly doubles when the coolant is forced to travel across half as many tubes per pass. This creates turbulence in the tubes, exposing more coolant to the radiator tube walls and improving heat transfer. This also presents an increased load to the water pump, which means using a dual-pass radiator demands a better water pump if the system is to take advantage of the dual-pass concept.
Thanks Robert
The two major designs for radiators are vertical flow and horizontal flow. As far as efficiency is concerned, there is no advantage to horizontal-flow radiators other than that they tend to allow a larger core to fit into a given engine compartment. Virtually all production-based radiators are built with a single-pass design, where coolant enters from the engine into the top of the radiator and travels across the core to the outlet on the opposite side. While dual-pass radiators have been around for a long time, they are now beginning to show up in high-performance and racing applications. A dual-pass horizontal-flow radiator moves coolant across the top half of the radiator on the first pass, then directs the coolant across the lower portion of the radiator face for a second pass. One reason this works is because the velocity of the coolant roughly doubles when the coolant is forced to travel across half as many tubes per pass. This creates turbulence in the tubes, exposing more coolant to the radiator tube walls and improving heat transfer. This also presents an increased load to the water pump, which means using a dual-pass radiator demands a better water pump if the system is to take advantage of the dual-pass concept.
Thanks Robert
That would make the intake and output of the radiator on the same side?
05-03-09 | 09:39 AM
#55
Thanks Robert
05-03-09 | 09:57 AM
#56
I also use a 3300 cfm fexalite fan. http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
Installation:
http://www.flex-a-lite.com/auto/180-99180.pdf
Thanks Robert
05-03-09 | 10:11 AM
#57
Thanks Robert
05-03-09 | 11:31 AM
#58
Rotary $ > AMG $
iTrader: (7)
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,785
Likes: 26
From: And the horse he rode in on...
Is (Higher efficiency*fewer#/min) > (Lower efficiency*greater #/min)?
Someones gotta do the math to know for sure.
But if the real world usage with accurate data collection says it works well, then it *does* work well.
We are going to see increased water pump pulley slippage with this setup if the increased head pressure is significant
And BTW, if the designers increase the tube size to mitigate pressure increase, then much of the advantage of the dual pass is lost.
That all being said, the unit looks pretty nice. I like the bung placements for temp sensors.
05-03-09 | 02:34 PM
#59
I wish I was driving!
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,241
Likes: 84
From: BC, Canada
Yes. At the cost of reduced coolant flow-fewer # per minute of coolant at higher efficiency.
Is (Higher efficiency*fewer#/min) > (Lower efficiency*greater #/min)?
Someones gotta do the math to know for sure.
But if the real world usage with accurate data collection says it works well, then it *does* work well.
With higher head pressure comes higher horsepower requirement at the water pump shaft. How much? We don't know.
We are going to see increased water pump pulley slippage with this setup if the increased head pressure is significant
And BTW, if the designers increase the tube size to mitigate pressure increase, then much of the advantage of the dual pass is lost.
That all being said, the unit looks pretty nice. I like the bung placements for temp sensors.
Is (Higher efficiency*fewer#/min) > (Lower efficiency*greater #/min)?
Someones gotta do the math to know for sure.
But if the real world usage with accurate data collection says it works well, then it *does* work well.
With higher head pressure comes higher horsepower requirement at the water pump shaft. How much? We don't know.
We are going to see increased water pump pulley slippage with this setup if the increased head pressure is significant
And BTW, if the designers increase the tube size to mitigate pressure increase, then much of the advantage of the dual pass is lost.
That all being said, the unit looks pretty nice. I like the bung placements for temp sensors.
05-03-09 | 09:49 PM
#61
Well I just got back form the track and results were better than I expected. Temps on my datalogit were no more than 95c. On the temp gauge read no more than 195 deg. Oil temps were great 210 deg or less. My oil temps had decreased. All around temps were good.
Thanks Robert
Thanks Robert
05-04-09 | 02:15 AM
#63
Full Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
From: Socal
Okay, I've read through this thread a few times and I am confused with what everyone is debating.
The OP asked a very straight forward question, "how does the GodSpeed Rad compare to Koyo and Fluidyne?"
2 members have stated from personal experience that the GodSpeed radiator has improved their water temps (lower and more stable). So to me it appears that the GodSpeed unit is a good purchase and is more affordable compared to other bolt-in units on the market.
As I continued down the thread, it seems that the topic has changed to the advantages and dis-advantages of single pass and dual pass radiators.
Each type has their own benefits, when CONSIDERED as part of a COMPLETE SYSTEM.
Now it is great to talk about ideal situations and how things are supposed to work. But it in the real world there are outside variables that will change these calculations and all we can do is make adjustments to suit our personal needs.
Is a single pass radiator a good design?
Is a dual pass radiator a good design?
The answer to both these questions is YES, given a properly designed system.
Now let's look at the stock system; single pass, non-cross flow (not ideal).
Will a cross flow be an improvement over the stock unit? Probably, because it promotes a more uniform heat transfer than the stock unit; vs. having one side of the radiator hotter than the other because the coolant has to travel diagonally across the core from inlet to outlet.
What about a dual pass system? Yes, as proven by 2 members using the GodSpeed on their personal cars.
I have to say that I was very apprehensive about a no-name company's product. But after today and witnessing it first hand, I have to say I was impressed.
I am the co-driver for FC3S91's car and after a hard day autcrossing in 90 degree weather at Cal Speedway; plus driving on LA freeways with the A/C on full blast, I never saw the water temps exceed 195 degrees. It was nice not having to wait as long for the car to cool down between runs! Which is outstanding once you take into account that Rob's car puts down over 360 @ the rear wheels on R compound tires. Not to mention that 3 boost happy drivers were behind the wheel!
Now the real test will be at the end of the month, when the car will be on the infield running 30 min. sessions, all day long. If the GodSpeed holds up to this and maintains the same temps as today, I'm sold on the unit and will confidently say that it will work on any street driven FC with a proper functioning cooling system.
The OP asked a very straight forward question, "how does the GodSpeed Rad compare to Koyo and Fluidyne?"
2 members have stated from personal experience that the GodSpeed radiator has improved their water temps (lower and more stable). So to me it appears that the GodSpeed unit is a good purchase and is more affordable compared to other bolt-in units on the market.
As I continued down the thread, it seems that the topic has changed to the advantages and dis-advantages of single pass and dual pass radiators.
Each type has their own benefits, when CONSIDERED as part of a COMPLETE SYSTEM.
Now it is great to talk about ideal situations and how things are supposed to work. But it in the real world there are outside variables that will change these calculations and all we can do is make adjustments to suit our personal needs.
Is a single pass radiator a good design?
Is a dual pass radiator a good design?
The answer to both these questions is YES, given a properly designed system.
Now let's look at the stock system; single pass, non-cross flow (not ideal).
Will a cross flow be an improvement over the stock unit? Probably, because it promotes a more uniform heat transfer than the stock unit; vs. having one side of the radiator hotter than the other because the coolant has to travel diagonally across the core from inlet to outlet.
What about a dual pass system? Yes, as proven by 2 members using the GodSpeed on their personal cars.
I have to say that I was very apprehensive about a no-name company's product. But after today and witnessing it first hand, I have to say I was impressed.
I am the co-driver for FC3S91's car and after a hard day autcrossing in 90 degree weather at Cal Speedway; plus driving on LA freeways with the A/C on full blast, I never saw the water temps exceed 195 degrees. It was nice not having to wait as long for the car to cool down between runs! Which is outstanding once you take into account that Rob's car puts down over 360 @ the rear wheels on R compound tires. Not to mention that 3 boost happy drivers were behind the wheel!
Now the real test will be at the end of the month, when the car will be on the infield running 30 min. sessions, all day long. If the GodSpeed holds up to this and maintains the same temps as today, I'm sold on the unit and will confidently say that it will work on any street driven FC with a proper functioning cooling system.
05-04-09 | 05:30 AM
#64
05-12-09 | 09:49 AM
#66
Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
From: Philadelphia
05-12-09 | 09:57 AM
#67
The OP asked a very straight forward question, "how does the GodSpeed Rad compare to Koyo and Fluidyne?"
2 members have stated from personal experience that the GodSpeed radiator has improved their water temps (lower and more stable). So to me it appears that the GodSpeed unit is a good purchase and is more affordable compared to other bolt-in units on the market.
As I continued down the thread, it seems that the topic has changed to the advantages and dis-advantages of single pass and dual pass radiators.
Each type has their own benefits, when CONSIDERED as part of a COMPLETE SYSTEM.
Now it is great to talk about ideal situations and how things are supposed to work. But it in the real world there are outside variables that will change these calculations and all we can do is make adjustments to suit our personal needs.
Is a single pass radiator a good design?
Is a dual pass radiator a good design?
The answer to both these questions is YES, given a properly designed system.
Now let's look at the stock system; single pass, non-cross flow (not ideal).
Will a cross flow be an improvement over the stock unit? Probably, because it promotes a more uniform heat transfer than the stock unit; vs. having one side of the radiator hotter than the other because the coolant has to travel diagonally across the core from inlet to outlet.
What about a dual pass system? Yes, as proven by 2 members using the GodSpeed on their personal cars.
I have to say that I was very apprehensive about a no-name company's product. But after today and witnessing it first hand, I have to say I was impressed.
I am the co-driver for FC3S91's car and after a hard day autcrossing in 90 degree weather at Cal Speedway; plus driving on LA freeways with the A/C on full blast, I never saw the water temps exceed 195 degrees. It was nice not having to wait as long for the car to cool down between runs! Which is outstanding once you take into account that Rob's car puts down over 360 @ the rear wheels on R compound tires. Not to mention that 3 boost happy drivers were behind the wheel!
Now the real test will be at the end of the month, when the car will be on the infield running 30 min. sessions, all day long. If the GodSpeed holds up to this and maintains the same temps as today, I'm sold on the unit and will confidently say that it will work on any street driven FC with a proper functioning cooling system
05-12-09 | 05:17 PM
#70
Derrick
05-15-09 | 01:21 PM
#71
Driving RX7's since 1979
iTrader: (43)
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,096
Likes: 9
From: So Cal where the OC/LA/SB counties meet
To answer one question regarding dual pass with stock fan
I have a Koyo Dual Pass in my S5 TurboVert using the stock fan shroud and fan. All that is needed is some minor trimming along the lower part of the fan opening. This is because the thicker radiator moved the shroud slightly up and toward the fan resulting in the fan being slightly inside the shroud at the bottom rather than behind it. A grinder wheel works very well for this.
You also need to do a little trimming around where the lower radiator hose mounts.
You also need to do a little trimming around where the lower radiator hose mounts.
11-09-09 | 09:01 PM
#74
Too Many Questions
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 737
Likes: 0
From: Claremore, Oklahoma
So, its been awhile and there isn't a follow up on the "infield 30 minute runs", with the godspeed radiator; I'm almost sold, if this post is answered by the tester(s), that would be cool.
To the people who said that their radiator failed, were exactly did it fail on the core and what were the conditions? An answer to this would be cool also
I'm amazed at how impressive you guys/gals debate skrills are! Its like Einstein vs. Bohr!
To the people who said that their radiator failed, were exactly did it fail on the core and what were the conditions? An answer to this would be cool also
I'm amazed at how impressive you guys/gals debate skrills are! Its like Einstein vs. Bohr!