Icemark

That is from when painting old fashioned single stage enamels... You would never never ever ever do that when using two or three stage paints.

In fact wetting the floor almost guarantees fogging in clear coats if you are too close, and a rough surface if you are too far.

See modern urethanes, moisture cure. If you dampen the floor or wash down the floor and then spray clear, moisture gets trapped into the paint leading to coat separation and fogged layers down the road. Of course the with a large amount of moisture in the area, the paint will harden internally before externally (normally it should be working its way in from the outside), leading to more problems. And in worse case if you spray clear with a damp/just washed floor and the gun is too far away, you'll get the clear hardening mid air, leading to a very rough surface.

Add in, that most primers (anything with a build in it) have a large amount of Talc in them. Talc attracts moisture, so spraying primer over a fresh washed floor will pull moisture into layers of the paint, and can again lead to layer separation and rusting out from under the paint.

This is also the reason that if you are painting your car at home, you never paint on rainy days or days with high humidity. I waited all winter to paint my 10thAE for that reason as here in Nor Cal it rained 90 out of 120 days this last winter.

Hmm, I don't think you use many modern paints or tools do you? 3M swirl mark remover is a very very fine rubbing compound, and perfect for cleaning up any minor errors that a heavier rubbing compound (like a 1500 or 1200 grit) would screw up. It is commonly used in many auto paint shops as a finish cut.

His suggesting of using 3M Perfect It (tm) and then 3M Swirl Mark Remover (tm) are exactly correct and the same methods I use when needed.

jacobcartmill

iTrader: (6)

iceblue are you a professional on everything or what

synesthete

I work in an automotive paint store and i didnt know that. I knew it was supposed to be dry, but i never knew why. I've always had the luxury of a booth. And hes exactly right about cut and buffing those are the products that a lot of pros use.

darksider

help please, i need to know asap

Icemark

a compressor that will pump out enough CFM to run a HVLP gun will be out of your budget.

At very least you are looking at $100 + for the spray gun and $300-$400 for a mdoerate sized compressor. Of course if you buy quality you could pay much more. My 3M HVLP gun that I use for clear coats, is around $300-$500 retail depending on where you buy it from. On the other hand my HVLP detail gun for door jams and other small things, was only about $40 on ebay, but it would be insane to try and paint a car with it (or even a bumper).

If you are just painting primer or enamels then a good conventional gun can be bought for under $50 that will run on a decent compressor. The set at Walmart is actually a somewhat decent set for around that.

And then Figure $100-$200 for a decent sized cheapo Chinese compressor with a large tank or mutiple tanks.

darksider

i got an offer for 5.5hp 26-30gal 120 psi with a sanblaster unit for 230.. is that a good deal.

do i need 2 stage 3 phase type compressors?
thanks

88rxn/a

iTrader: (6)

it pays to have friends in the paint business and have people that own a nice gun and compressor....

Icemark

What is the CFM, you would need a compressor that has at least 15 CFM for most HVLP guns.

There is actually a decent gun on ebay right now as well:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DeVIL...39024253QQrdZ1

And I have used this conventional gun with great success, but it is not HVLP (or the CFM would be higher) and not for anything but primer, and base coats. You would not want to use it for clear:
http://cgi.ebay.com/AUTOMOTIVE-W200-...QQcmdZViewItem
It is basiclly just a knock off of the Iwata W200 which sells for around $250-300

This is what I use for clear (good thing I get wholesale for 3M stuff):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/3M-Pa...spagenameZWD1V

iceblue

Umm negative. The correct compound is not swirl remover if using 3m it would be finesse-it then a polish compound.

Yes jacobcartmill I know way more then you will ever know.

PS: I owned a detail company trained from my uncle who owned a very prestige company then sold my detail company to my other uncle who moved up here.

I spray over concrete and wash it down before I paint. It seeps in quick but still colored and begins first stage of painting and goes all the way through. When not in a booth.

darksider

5.5 hp should be able to output 15cfm right? daym i hope i didnt buy junk. it shas 3 out puts. two regular hose outputs with guage and a pressure releiver. its says american forge pro 88142.

is there a gun that does primer paint and clear? i figues its just the tip thats different.

EDIT. 15cfm?? at what psi? the average is 6scfm on a 5hp compressor at 40psi. i think.

what is the hp for? how would i find out what the cfm is? i think it maxes at 120-130 psi. red zone psi is like 140-150.

ok so i think i fucked up and purchased the wrong compressor. i think itll pump 6-7 giver or take 1 psi. im i screwd? daym... cant return now

darksider

whats the difference between the cheap sprayers and the expensive ones? is it just the tip? can i just buy a tip for the cheap one? can there be one gun to do everything? primer, base coat, paint and clear? the 3m said it only need 18-29 psi. my compressors maxes out at 130. is that ok? will it work? how do i calculate cfm?

please answer my past post too.

they guy i bought it from was offering me a hvlp gun for $25. is it worth it or should i just get a better one.

darksider

if its not hvlp why does it state it?

so fake hvlp are under 100? and the real hvlp are over? how would i be able to tell? will it take multiple sprayers to do primer, base and clear? can i just change the tips? is there a tip to do everything? 1.3mm? is it the smaller the tip the finer?

iceblue

You can use one good gun with different tips. I do not spray my primer out of the same gun my base and clear comes from. But you could change tips to save money for a paint job or two. A cheep gun 150$ would work good for primer but you will notice a big difference when you change to a 350$ hvlp gun or so.

As I have said there is many ways people were taught to paint. You use what works for you and your methods.

Icemark

Ah, Hmm I think you are a little out of the loop, or just don't get this end of it.

Finesse It II isa Polishing compound. Rather a medium cut.

Swirl Mark Remover is a Fine cut polishing compound.

BTW: Swirlmark Remover just got renamed "Foam Polishing Pad Glaze". Just a different name, I guess for people that didn't understand what the Swirl Mark Remover is... and there are light and dark formula for Light or Dark paints. It would be a much finer cut and better finish polish than Finesse It II.

Your uncle must have not kept up with modern polishes from 3M.

Icemark

Just that ebay seller, claiming it is a HVLP. The only advantage of home use of a HVLP is you use less paint. A true HVLP usually uses about 12-15 CFM at 40 or lower psi.

As a sort of rule of thumb, 1.5 - 2.0 tips are for primer and color coats. Trying to spray a primer with something smaller than a 1.5 is just asking for a clogged gun.

Clear coats are usually sprayed with a 1.2-1.3 tip, but I have known people to use as big as a 1.5 if they are spraying in a booth.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

How does the prep for the bumper covers differ from the prep on steel body panels?

Can the plastic bumper be sanded primed etc just like the steel panels?

Or are there specific techniques and products designed for the plastic parts?

iceblue

No he did not use 3m all his stuff I have to order and pay about 20$ more per bottle and 3m I can get over the shelf. 3m waxes is something I have picked up as I have really liked there products results. Thx for the update.

iceblue

ABS plastic you would idealy use a plastic weld machine to fix defects and no etch primer is needed.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

What about flaking paint? How do you make certain of a sound surface for the paint?

Then, do you prime and sand the primer?

Thx

This is a very, very informative thread.

Icemark

It depends on the paint. With two part urethanes, you can just spray on the Primer, base color and clear.

But with lacquers and single part enamels you would need to add a flex additive, or the paint will flake off the first time it is bumped.

as far as prep, smooth sand to a 600 grit is fine, but as covered earlier wash with dish soap, and then use a good degreaser/de-waxer before sanding.

Icemark

IMO (and others may disagree) if you have flaking paint layers (like a 10thAE or S5 model) then the paint needs to be removed to metal.

But like I said, others may disagree with that.

Once you are at metal, then etching primer, primer surfacer, and paint normally.

88rxn/a

iTrader: (6)

how far around the flake/chip needs to be down to metal??
say i got a chip thats 1 inch around..how far should i go out away from it to prevent another chip forming their??
(the 1 inch is a example)

iceblue

I DA the whole thing and where its flaking I DA till it stops coming off and put a little more pressure in the next 4 to 6in to make sure.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

And how do you fix flaking paint on a plastic bumper?

thx

iceblue

umm exsactly what was said ^. You sand and repaint it.