longisland87rx7

this car is driving me nuts as much as i love her shes not showing much affection back and all i been doing is researching and researching and i refuse to burn my wallet on someone to fix this car because it'll probably run me about a grand seriously..
anyways for all those that havent seen me on here and seen all my issues that i've been battling one by one the car is an 87 model t2 s5 engine converted to work as an s4 with the non electrical omp with s4 wiring harness..
I had her idling high yesterday but couldnt get the idle to drop and then it started surging up and down in rpm..
So last nite i cuddled with my throttle body and made it the tps to 1k ohm and i installed it today it changed a little bit once i hooked the throttle body up and i adjusted it back to 1 k ohm..
Now i start it up its extremely hard to start up now and its running extremely rich and its dying out once u let go of the gas..
Im thinking that i made one too many adjustments and i believe im far from where the throttle body is supposed to be even though the tps is set right..
I did the test on the green plug with the 10k ohm 1/4 watt resister and im getting zero.. is that a true test? and i also read in another link that someone conducted that test directly on their bac valve i dunno if thats really the way to do it though..
Also popped in another ecu and did the same test and same results using the alternating current side of the mulitmeter
So im wondering if thats a concern as well..
I'm also experiencing a gas leak right now as well which im gonna have to look into tomorrow im getting sick of pulling this throttle body and UIM off!! but it wasnt leaking yesterday and now it is..
My bac is in good shape tested 11.7 ohms and its not the bac you can adjust with the screw driver either.
Does anyone have some real pictures of how my S4 throttle body has too look like a general or anything?
And some real good straight up advice to get my car to where its supposed to be would be like christmas in march right now..
I never had these problems in my prior escapades swinging engines in..
Very fustrating alot of time spent putting in 12 hour shifts on this thing haha all work and no play with this car =(
any advice and some hope would be great thank you to all that have been helping me in my quest to revive this thing
-Ryan

longisland87rx7

Im gonna take some pictures tomorrow maybe some action video and more details about whats going on and get a little more in depth because i see a bunch of other people with these idle issues and this is just no picnic..i know all my vacuum lines are good but im going to fix the gas problem first off.. and report back and i'll keep saying what im doing or what ive done and whats happening along the way and maybe with some help from some of you get this thing working..thanks again

longisland87rx7

anyone else having similar problems may want to use this austrailian fsm it goes a little more indepth with the throttle body adjustments and other associated things to idle like the air intake system..

http://foxed.ca/rx7manual/manuals/19...TEMS_TURBO.pdf

I'll post up how i make out with all this if anyone else has some suggestions please let me know..

Egan89

While on the topic of idle issues... I have a problem with my 93 rex its fairly standard apart from stragiht through exhaust and 2 air filters... When I start it up its grand.. But every1 now and then wen i rev it.. It seems to splutter and back fire or it mite rev then you could lift off and rev again and it would splutter.. Can someone help me please??

longisland87rx7

Egan thats probably your tps and your gonna have too adjust it.. Im not sure what the procedure is for a FD tps adjustment.. I'm sure its similar but u might want to at least check it and see if its where its supposed to be

lonewolfrx

ever get the problem fixed?

longisland87rx7

I havent made out too good with my throttle body yet and i also just ordered some new injectors i feel like they were shot and not worth cleaning and the testing..

I however took some pictures maybe some one can guide me to the throttle body know how..
<a href="http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/dknyli528/?action=view&current=IMG_1257.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/dknyli528/IMG_1257.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a><a href="http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/dknyli528/?action=view&current=IMG_1260.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/dknyli528/IMG_1260.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
So If you look dead middle on the first picture, I couldn't quiet line up the matching mark on top so I left it at the bottom mark.. Also both the cam roller and the fast idle had both about 4 more complete turns to being completely bottomed out on each screw. I believe its the primary part of the throttle body is open a little bit if you look at picture 3..

<a href="http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/dknyli528/?action=view&current=IMG_1270.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/dknyli528/IMG_1270.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


And the FSM shows it at the top matching mark..
<a href="http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/dknyli528/?action=view&current=IMG_1268.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/dknyli528/IMG_1268.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a><a href="http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/dknyli528/?action=view&current=IMG_1264.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/dknyli528/IMG_1264.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
So when i max out all of these adjustments i get the closest to the top matching mark but the cam rollers not even trying to lean against it.. The primary throttle plate is open a little bit more this way..

Also when i was originally setting the tps with the test light technique I would back out the tps adjustment all the way just to recieve one light on the led test couldnt get both to go at once or past that.. I could get it to reach the 1k ohms on the multi meter but it still seemed like I had to back that screw out too much as well..

Bottom line is i feel like all of my adjustments on the throttle body shouldnt be tightened to max or nearly max or for the tps adjustment back out all the way with out getting the proper setting even for that.. Maybe its my dash pots or this throttle body is shot..
I'd like get this figured outt soon! Because in a couple days I'll be throwing them in there alot with a throttle that shouldnt have to be fondled to much any more haha..Any help would be great i've been looking all around I found other posts but not with the turbo 2 throttle body..

longisland87rx7

Kinda messed up there in the beginning of this life story of my throttle body, the throttle plates were in picture number two obviously not three..
And then I meant to say that I'm going to be recieving new injectors in the next couple days so i just want to be able to throw everything together with out too much fear of the throttle body being outta wack and just little adjustments and not big ones..
I'm not sure how big of a role my injectors were playing in my idle but I just want to make sure my throttle body isnt on problems list..
As far as vacuum leaks i never found any with using carb cleaner, my bac was workn't but it wasnt the one i could adjust..

beefhole

iTrader: (29)

How is your timing? This could be tricky with your S4 ECU and S5 engine as they have different timing. The S5 housing has different spark plug locations. Hopefully it could still work smooth though. Is your CAS set with your pulley timing marks? You're on Long Island, I would help you but I don't know if you're close, and I'm moving this weekend anyway; way too busy.

longisland87rx7

thanks for reading this crap at at least..
and yes I aligned the CAS on point to the yellow timing mark on the eccentric shaft.. I actually had it running good at first..
well better then what it turned into..
it was just sitting at 3 grand and as i would try every combo to get to idle low it was just reving up and down surging and it trying hard to die on me..
i guess if no one knows something i dont about the throttle body alignment im just going to put it sitting at that lower mark to the cam roller with the new injectors and see what happens replace the dash pots with another set i have..
im even trying a different ecu with this one another n332..

longisland87rx7

I dont think theres a problem that i went s5 with the engine and s4 with the TB, OMP, water pump and the timing be different ?
I always seemed to believe that the rear plate to the front plate was not so much different at all and timming would not be affected..
Maybe someone knows that for sure.. that would suck if that were an issue haha

satch

iTrader: (1)

You can pour some boiling water onto the thermowax to simulate the car warming up and see what is the net resulting affect.

longisland87rx7

hey satch thanks man.. I'm gonna try that right now good suggestion !

datz

it looks like your primary throttle plate is open more than it should, i think it should be ~.6mm

longisland87rx7

okayyy so I did the hot water on the thermo wax and i did it twice..

the first time it went up about 3 mm maybe a hair more and as it cooled off i was able to adjust the cam roller with the top mark by backing out the lower secondary plate adjustment and the top adjustment (fast idle)..

So i did it once more.. this time also pouring hot water down the coolant line and maybe it wasnt fully cooled off from the first time but it went back up about 2mm about the same height it was the first time..
<a href="http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/dknyli528/?action=view&current=IMG_1284.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/dknyli528/IMG_1284.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
this is after the second try after it cooled down it still didnt go down all the way had about another millimeter to go..
<a href="http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/dknyli528/?action=view&current=IMG_1277.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/dknyli528/IMG_1277.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
the cam roller backed off and swung upward like it should..
I think it should have moved going higher or it just wasnt "engine hot" enough..
<a href="http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/dknyli528/?action=view&current=IMG_1284.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/dknyli528/IMG_1284.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
and as it was cooling the cam roller was just leaning on that upper marking..

So it definately allowed me too get to its proper marking and was a beautiful technique instead of warming the car up for 15 20 minutes..
burning that gas up as its not idling right and trying to shut down and being able to see that happening in front of u was also great because other wise you have to rip that throttle body off fast to catch its while it hot..
you can not see that mark with out doing so unless you use a mirror and i dont like that idea haha..
Not sure how high this thermowax is supposed to go hopefully im with-in range..
I'm going to go and do it once more and look to see if cooling allowed me to back off a little bit more on those adjustments..

And the primary throttle plate should be open a little as I seen in the FSM and i do believe your right datz it was open more then it should have.. let me check to see how that plates sitting now..

Thank you again everyone for your suggestions and imput..

longisland87rx7

Aright did this again..
Same results basically gave it two cups of hot water rather then just one wasnt able to back off much at all on the adjustments..
I tinkered with the front side adjustments in the area of the tps and tightened them down nearly all the the way one by one..
It actually opened up the secondary throttle plates by doing those two adjustments..
My primary plate after it cooled down still had a slight opening but not much as before..
So basically im at the marking with the cam roller which is where i wasnt able to be adjust too while it was cold..
Only time i could back off a little bit was on the back side secondary plates adjustment when i tightened up the front adjustments..
But I ended up loosening up the front TB adjustments and had to tighten up the secondary TB plate because my tps was reading 2.48 k ohms haha that wouldnt work what so ever..
In a nut shell I got my cam roller lined up correctly on the upper marking according to the FSM..
But the secondary throttle adjustment on the rear seems still close to fully tight and the idle cam adjustment on the thermo wax is a 100% tight and the fast idle adjusting screw isnt touching and will have a good 4 rotations once it hits the primary plate..

longisland87rx7

<a href="http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/dknyli528/?action=view&current=IMG_1285.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/dknyli528/IMG_1285.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Before I tried the hot water test for the third time.. Lined up good..
<a href="http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/dknyli528/?action=view&current=IMG_1288.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/dknyli528/IMG_1288.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
It moved up and away just a little bit not like it shows in the FSM..
Like I said maybe its not "engine hot enough" to really see the thermowax's full push..
I may have to try my heat gun see whats good then haha
<a href="http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/dknyli528/?action=view&current=IMG_1299.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/dknyli528/IMG_1299.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Also as I was saying above was that I tightened the front of the TB's adjustments located around the TPS and I tested it to see where it was at nearly fully tight..
<a href="http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/dknyli528/?action=view&current=IMG_1301.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/dknyli528/IMG_1301.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
The secondaries were opened a little bit and the primary was back pretty much where it should be I believe...
So i untightened the front TB adjustments to bring the secondary throttle plates back to the norm..
<a href="http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/dknyli528/?action=view&current=IMG_1298.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/dknyli528/IMG_1298.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
All the way maxed.. and when you loosen it and starts twisting u toward the bottom mark and not the top mark where you need to be..
<a href="http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/dknyli528/?action=view&current=IMG_1297.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/dknyli528/IMG_1297.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Seems like theres not much use for this adjustment haha probably get the 4 full complete turns to touch it at least if i need it once i get it back together..
This adjustment screw when it hits the primary plate it backs the cam roller away from the mark..
<a href="http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/dknyli528/?action=view&current=IMG_1295.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/dknyli528/IMG_1295.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
And this secondary throttle body adjustment is pretty much almost maxed as well and you can see how much its popping out its backside.. and this brings the cam roller back away from the mark if you loosen it and tight pushes it right on to the mark..
<a href="http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/dknyli528/?action=view&current=IMG_1290.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/dknyli528/IMG_1290.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Heres the overall bigger picture minus the thottle body right now haha
<a href="http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/dknyli528/?action=view&current=IMG_1291.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/dknyli528/IMG_1291.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
thought the black would be a good look switch it up a little bit..

sharingan 19

iTrader: (16)

First of all, there are way too many adjustments on these damn TB's ; I can see why some people would rather run carbs. You might have to adjust them everything the temp changes, but at least they can be adjusted lol.

Second, keep it up! I'm glad you're keeping us posted. My car used to only idle after it got warm, now it never wants to idle at all, I suspect the thermowax (and my BAC doesn't work and isn't connected). But I've ordered another (working) TB so that way I can at least compare the two.

Have you checked the tension in the throttle cable/cruise control?

longisland87rx7

thanks man im working on it alright and you arent kidding with the amount of adjustments..
I didnt know what all of then did until pretty much like earlier today haha.. I figured let me post what i see as it happens this way its the next best thing to actually having it right in front of you..
And not for nothing everything seems a little easier to take in with some visual kodak moments..
And if I get out of this jam and everything works well that only means this could help some one else out down the road..
Because if u go seraching u catch bits and pieces of what you might need assistance with and you dont know if they are 100% right or absolutely wrong or some what right..
There are certain people on here that u see on the faq and those are the people you trust in with out a doubt and there are others that know there stuff too so its always good..
RX7CLUB and all the players on it have taught me alot, especially when i was bummed about what ever the new issue was haha
Before I even finished reading what your wrote i was gonna mention the BAC but seem like u got that in a head lock....
How do u know for sure that it isnt working?
Did you apply direct battery power to ir see if u get some clicking?
Make sure its definately recieving power with the key on?
The resistance should be about 10.7-12.3 ohms..
If all thats good then pull it off and see if something visually stuck inside spray some lubricant in it..
With out that bac I think your gonna have to expect to hold down the gas pedal till it warms up almost everytime..
Also check out ur tps make sure that's correct..

longisland87rx7

My throttle cable seems to have the proper slack according to the FSM and havent seen the cruise contol hahah only cable I have is the throttle..Thanks for double checking me..

longisland87rx7

So that thermowax is doing its job?
Does anyone have a working non problematic turbo II s4 throttle body picture or two ?
If not I'm going to leave the settings the way they are double check my dash pots make sure they are good..
Put it backtogether with my new injectors and injector pigtails that are on their way..
Hopefully smooth sailing!

beefhole

iTrader: (29)

Is it me, or is the IC crooked? The Turbo to IC piping looks pinched? Well, that wouldn't affect anything since it's pre-TB but you might want to look into that...

I re-read the initial posts and high idle (obvious from all the posting) and surging. Vacuum leaks are a pain, and it's easy to say "I checked and found nothing" but who knows. These damn cars have way too many places for vacuum leaks. Injector grommets can leak, those could be tough to diagnose. A gasket can be torn from underneath a manifold or mounting flange of a device and be hard to find. A good tear down and replacement of rubber/gasket never hurt anyone (except the wallet )

longisland87rx7

Yeah beefhole that IC is infact crooked and I used to run it that way a while back. The BOV is on a big..must be a 3 inch tube and its horrible to work with the stock innercooler so I usually bolt up the the two passenger side bolts on it..
I'm gonna see if i can build something to help that and it would be easier to close the hood!
I dont think thats the problem unfortunately..
I know what you mean about hard to diagnose the injectors but i do know the at least one grommit was letting out some gas not much but enough to notice and to give an odor..
They were shot I thought and I just replaced them no diagnosics for them..
I just got my injectors in today 50 a pop brand new looking like they ready to not cause problem haha
I did check for vacuum leaks the couple times it did start and held some what of an idle and sprayed carb fluid all around and didnt hear any difference so I'm guess that wasnt the issue..
I have my Throttle body in what i believe should be a good base all around adjustment..
I'm just waiting on new connectors for the injectors I want no problems near the injectors at all..
Trying to erase the injectors off the list and I picked up another n332 ecu as a just incaser haha
Hopefully a combination of all these things will get it to where it needs to be..

HAILERS

Jpg attached.

longisland87rx7

Now that is beautiful hailers..
Nice to have something to go by..
My secondary throttle plates seem to be good then with the current adjustment for that..
Just have to do the rest of what you just unvailed to me..

Thank you !