How light can you get an FC (what more can I remove?)
08-10-09 | 05:25 PM
#26
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 377
Likes: 2
From: England
Honestly, if you saw the stiching in the flesh, id be amazed if it added an extra kg to be fair, its a lot of it, but very small stitches.
The cage, well, its not that significant, not even a rear diagonal or X door bars.
And price, well, just before I bought it I sold a late 2003 Honda S2000, and buying the car, shipping it, and getting it fully road legal cost me almost exactly what I sold the S2K for.
Quite a bit, but to build the car to the same spec wouldve cost so much more, so it was a wise move for me as I hate building cars. I dont mind doing easy swaps like weight saving and minor tuning , but anything that takes the car off the road for any real time, im done with, fed up with that kinda thing!
The cage, well, its not that significant, not even a rear diagonal or X door bars.
And price, well, just before I bought it I sold a late 2003 Honda S2000, and buying the car, shipping it, and getting it fully road legal cost me almost exactly what I sold the S2K for.
Quite a bit, but to build the car to the same spec wouldve cost so much more, so it was a wise move for me as I hate building cars. I dont mind doing easy swaps like weight saving and minor tuning , but anything that takes the car off the road for any real time, im done with, fed up with that kinda thing!
Last edited by StavFC; 08-10-09 at 05:27 PM.
08-10-09 | 06:19 PM
#27
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 946
Likes: 0
From: paradise Florida
a few ideas aside from whats been mentioned..
ditch the stock subframes, make some lightweight tubular ones.
get the car on a lift, and freakin go at the undercarriage, there is a lot of **** built up under there.
completely gut all to do with the headlights, or if you need lights, get a sleek headlight conversion.
cut out all of the inner walls of metal (there are 2 layers of metal in some parts of the car)
also, what kind of metal is your cage made of? if its not chromemoly, you have some weight to save.
ditch the stock subframes, make some lightweight tubular ones.
get the car on a lift, and freakin go at the undercarriage, there is a lot of **** built up under there.
completely gut all to do with the headlights, or if you need lights, get a sleek headlight conversion.
cut out all of the inner walls of metal (there are 2 layers of metal in some parts of the car)
also, what kind of metal is your cage made of? if its not chromemoly, you have some weight to save.
08-10-09 | 06:45 PM
#28
If you have door bars on you cage remove the stock units in the doors, that will get you about 11-12lbs a side. Go with a twin master cyl set up and get rid of the stock booster, it weighs 11lbs. Go with a total lose charging system and lose the 12lb alternator off the top of the engine. I make an FRP hatch frame with lexan that weighs 15lbs, that will save you about 42lbs off the back of the car. I don't know what shipping would be if you're in England but the part is $400.
And hell, if you would even consider paying for the CF doors I would make you some FRP ones and hand deliver them for half that price or less!
And hell, if you would even consider paying for the CF doors I would make you some FRP ones and hand deliver them for half that price or less!
08-10-09 | 08:59 PM
#29
Honestly, if you saw the stiching in the flesh, id be amazed if it added an extra kg to be fair, its a lot of it, but very small stitches.
The cage, well, its not that significant, not even a rear diagonal or X door bars.
And price, well, just before I bought it I sold a late 2003 Honda S2000, and buying the car, shipping it, and getting it fully road legal cost me almost exactly what I sold the S2K for.
Quite a bit, but to build the car to the same spec wouldve cost so much more, so it was a wise move for me as I hate building cars. I dont mind doing easy swaps like weight saving and minor tuning , but anything that takes the car off the road for any real time, im done with, fed up with that kinda thing!
The cage, well, its not that significant, not even a rear diagonal or X door bars.
And price, well, just before I bought it I sold a late 2003 Honda S2000, and buying the car, shipping it, and getting it fully road legal cost me almost exactly what I sold the S2K for.
Quite a bit, but to build the car to the same spec wouldve cost so much more, so it was a wise move for me as I hate building cars. I dont mind doing easy swaps like weight saving and minor tuning , but anything that takes the car off the road for any real time, im done with, fed up with that kinda thing!
I'm deep in it (13bre, t04r, standalone, suspension, etc) and haven't even done anything to the body yet. Best of luck with your lightening project. You have a beautiful machine.
08-11-09 | 04:52 PM
#30
If you have door bars on you cage remove the stock units in the doors, that will get you about 11-12lbs a side. Go with a twin master cyl set up and get rid of the stock booster, it weighs 11lbs. Go with a total lose charging system and lose the 12lb alternator off the top of the engine. I make an FRP hatch frame with lexan that weighs 15lbs, that will save you about 42lbs off the back of the car. I don't know what shipping would be if you're in England but the part is $400.
And hell, if you would even consider paying for the CF doors I would make you some FRP ones and hand deliver them for half that price or less!
And hell, if you would even consider paying for the CF doors I would make you some FRP ones and hand deliver them for half that price or less!
08-11-09 | 07:04 PM
#31
They are pretty simple to fab up, the hard work is figuring the proper size cylinder for each circuit.
Probably the most popular vendor for these setups would be Wilwood, they have lots of info on their site and the hardware is very reasonably priced. Outlaw brakes is another.
Along with the twin cylinders a "bias-bar" is typically installed.
This allows you to mechanically fine tune the proportioning between front and rear braking.
I built just such a setup for my 240Z and it was great.
All told though, you'll only be saving maybe 7-8 lbs...so it's a lot of work if mere weight savings is the goal.
08-12-09 | 12:27 AM
#32
well depending on how nice of doors you need i'd just make some fiberglas ones from scratch. shouldnt cost a fortune if you can do it yourself. the doors one these cars weigh like 45 pounds. if not more. they are heavy as hell!
08-12-09 | 09:34 AM
#33
Old Rotary Dog
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,461
Likes: 2
From: Durham, NC
You do not run an alternator at all. It's used in race cars. You fully charge the battery before an event and run all your electrics off of it for the duration of the race. It works really well if you are running w/ carbs and a distributor, but it can also work w/ an EFI system. You lose not only the weight but also the small parasitic power loss from the alternator.
-b
-b
08-16-09 | 11:45 PM
#34
You might actually be able to save some weight by switching rims. don't know what rims you're running but if you could save 3-4lbs a rim, thats 12-16lbs right there! also, what driveshaft are you running? depending on your budget, you could get a carbon driveshaft which should save a little weight as well as help your acceleration slightly due to the decreased driveline weight and rotating mass.
definately worth doing up some fiberglass or carbon fiber doors with lexan or windowless like everyone has said. that would be the first thing I would do along the the rear hatch lexan and FG for the biggest weight reduction left. everything else is just a little here and there but it all adds up I suppose.
definately worth doing up some fiberglass or carbon fiber doors with lexan or windowless like everyone has said. that would be the first thing I would do along the the rear hatch lexan and FG for the biggest weight reduction left. everything else is just a little here and there but it all adds up I suppose.
08-18-09 | 12:48 PM
#36
Trance Addict
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
From: Nor Cal - Crescent City
I'm down under 2400 in my n/a. I have the brakes/booster off a convertible, seats out of a convertible (with the headrest speakers not working, but I didn't have money to buy real bucket seats...) No dash, And almost everything I can take out of the engine bay (I'm sure If I work at it I could lose some more out of there...
I was going to suggest losing the power steering due to the fact that the only time you even get the notion you don't have power steering is when you are at a dead stop. I don't realize it at all, and when you car is that light it really doesn't matter. However besides losing all the fluid and the pump when removing it, you lose the rotating mass of running a belt which is forcing the fluid around.
I would ditch the speakers and repaint the doors =p.
Seriously though, first thing I would look to switching wouldn't be the doors that you are looking at. I would look to replacing the rear hatch as that weight comes off further back on the car. The rear is the hardest part to remove weight off of. A lightweight flywheel is a must, a carbon fiber driveshaft and underdrive pulleys would be good too (as they all rotate).
The advice I have towards weight reduction is think small. Don't say "Oh it's only a couple pounds I am removing so it's not worth it..." Say "Oh here is a couple more pounds that I *CAN* remove!!!"
Your car is currently 2535lbs lets say it's sitting at only 200hp, You only have to remove 12.675lbs to free up a hp. Then you would be at 2522 lbs. Then it takes a little less 12.611625 pounds. A stock T2 weighing 2700lbs making 182hp has to remove almost 15lbs to free one hp.
It's not always how much, but where on the car and what kind of weight comes off. Rotating weight restricts the car far more than idle weight sitting in the car, this is why I switched to an electric fan and removed the smog pump/power steering/air off the crank, switched to premix, and run lightweight wheels.
I was going to suggest losing the power steering due to the fact that the only time you even get the notion you don't have power steering is when you are at a dead stop. I don't realize it at all, and when you car is that light it really doesn't matter. However besides losing all the fluid and the pump when removing it, you lose the rotating mass of running a belt which is forcing the fluid around.
I would ditch the speakers and repaint the doors =p.
Seriously though, first thing I would look to switching wouldn't be the doors that you are looking at. I would look to replacing the rear hatch as that weight comes off further back on the car. The rear is the hardest part to remove weight off of. A lightweight flywheel is a must, a carbon fiber driveshaft and underdrive pulleys would be good too (as they all rotate).
The advice I have towards weight reduction is think small. Don't say "Oh it's only a couple pounds I am removing so it's not worth it..." Say "Oh here is a couple more pounds that I *CAN* remove!!!"
Your car is currently 2535lbs lets say it's sitting at only 200hp, You only have to remove 12.675lbs to free up a hp. Then you would be at 2522 lbs. Then it takes a little less 12.611625 pounds. A stock T2 weighing 2700lbs making 182hp has to remove almost 15lbs to free one hp.
It's not always how much, but where on the car and what kind of weight comes off. Rotating weight restricts the car far more than idle weight sitting in the car, this is why I switched to an electric fan and removed the smog pump/power steering/air off the crank, switched to premix, and run lightweight wheels.
02-24-10 | 06:00 AM
#37
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 377
Likes: 2
From: England
Just a quick update on this.
My flush headlamp conversion and FRP/Lexan rear hatch has saved me a combined total of just under 60lb, which is nice.
I still have to gut the doors and see if there any more excess metalwork inside the car I can cut away, which should free up some more.
Aftermarket brakes with alloy bells and calipers should help a little too.
Beyond that, considering the car needs to be streetable, it gets hard, cant remove alternator or anything of course, and as its a track/drift car I dont want to remove PAS.
Soon as I get the hatch and lights fully painted and on the car ill get the car down to a weighbridge, see what it is at the moment, I'd love to see sub 2200lb, but we will see...
My flush headlamp conversion and FRP/Lexan rear hatch has saved me a combined total of just under 60lb, which is nice.
I still have to gut the doors and see if there any more excess metalwork inside the car I can cut away, which should free up some more.
Aftermarket brakes with alloy bells and calipers should help a little too.
Beyond that, considering the car needs to be streetable, it gets hard, cant remove alternator or anything of course, and as its a track/drift car I dont want to remove PAS.
Soon as I get the hatch and lights fully painted and on the car ill get the car down to a weighbridge, see what it is at the moment, I'd love to see sub 2200lb, but we will see...
weight
02-24-10 | 05:08 PM
#40
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 377
Likes: 2
From: England
02-24-10 | 05:25 PM
#42
Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
From: waukesha wisconsin
02-24-10 | 06:47 PM
#43
Can't believe we're 42 posts in and not one mention of a running a smaller battery, ditching the sound deadening, or weeding unnecessary wiring. You mentioned buckets seats. ARe they fixed back / FRP? Do you need seats plural? A hollow front swaybar can save 10 lbs vs. an RB bar. A stock rear bar is 5 lbs. You are weighing your car with an empty tank of gas right? (Notice how there's no mention of that in the time attack car numbers).
You can go the other way of course and add power. My car is 3000 lbs. Wanna race?
You can go the other way of course and add power. My car is 3000 lbs. Wanna race?
02-25-10 | 03:06 AM
#45
Stav, start drilling holes in ****.
Does anyone make carbon/glass doors for the fc yet?
If not, get the **** with the program. We dont care if it's unsafe to run on the street. We accept all consequences running stuff sold as "off road or show use only". Shed weight!!!!!!
Cutting up the front end of the car, you know, the rad core support and all that **** and welding in some steel bar where you need it will save you a few pounds. Although i think lexan door windows and some carbon/glass doors would shed more weight than anything since you're close to maxed out while still having your car not look like ***/unsafe.
There's always this:
Well, i'm browsing the driftworks fc thread right now but you've already seen it.
Remember that sad shell of an fc? It was a coupe....looks like a rabbit pickup that got rolled a few times and slammed into a tree? Do that. You dont need a roof, dont need a hatch, dont need bumpers/lamps, damn sure dont need a hood or fenders...... Lol. Liteweight!
Seriously, dont do that to that car. PLZ!
Does anyone make carbon/glass doors for the fc yet?
If not, get the **** with the program. We dont care if it's unsafe to run on the street. We accept all consequences running stuff sold as "off road or show use only". Shed weight!!!!!!
Cutting up the front end of the car, you know, the rad core support and all that **** and welding in some steel bar where you need it will save you a few pounds. Although i think lexan door windows and some carbon/glass doors would shed more weight than anything since you're close to maxed out while still having your car not look like ***/unsafe.
There's always this:
Well, i'm browsing the driftworks fc thread right now but you've already seen it.
Remember that sad shell of an fc? It was a coupe....looks like a rabbit pickup that got rolled a few times and slammed into a tree? Do that. You dont need a roof, dont need a hatch, dont need bumpers/lamps, damn sure dont need a hood or fenders...... Lol. Liteweight!
Seriously, dont do that to that car. PLZ!
02-25-10 | 08:31 AM
#46
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 377
Likes: 2
From: England
Can't believe we're 42 posts in and not one mention of a running a smaller battery, ditching the sound deadening, or weeding unnecessary wiring. You mentioned buckets seats. ARe they fixed back / FRP? Do you need seats plural? A hollow front swaybar can save 10 lbs vs. an RB bar. A stock rear bar is 5 lbs.
Didnt realsise there was lightweight hollow ARBs available though...
Stav, start drilling holes in ****.
Does anyone make carbon/glass doors for the fc yet?
If not, get the **** with the program. We dont care if it's unsafe to run on the street. We accept all consequences running stuff sold as "off road or show use only". Shed weight!!!!!!
Cutting up the front end of the car, you know, the rad core support and all that **** and welding in some steel bar where you need it will save you a few pounds. Although i think lexan door windows and some carbon/glass doors would shed more weight than anything since you're close to maxed out while still having your car not look like ***/unsafe.
There's always this:
Well, i'm browsing the driftworks fc thread right now but you've already seen it.
Remember that sad shell of an fc? It was a coupe....looks like a rabbit pickup that got rolled a few times and slammed into a tree? Do that. You dont need a roof, dont need a hatch, dont need bumpers/lamps, damn sure dont need a hood or fenders...... Lol. Liteweight!
Seriously, dont do that to that car. PLZ!
Does anyone make carbon/glass doors for the fc yet?
If not, get the **** with the program. We dont care if it's unsafe to run on the street. We accept all consequences running stuff sold as "off road or show use only". Shed weight!!!!!!
Cutting up the front end of the car, you know, the rad core support and all that **** and welding in some steel bar where you need it will save you a few pounds. Although i think lexan door windows and some carbon/glass doors would shed more weight than anything since you're close to maxed out while still having your car not look like ***/unsafe.
There's always this:
Well, i'm browsing the driftworks fc thread right now but you've already seen it.
Remember that sad shell of an fc? It was a coupe....looks like a rabbit pickup that got rolled a few times and slammed into a tree? Do that. You dont need a roof, dont need a hatch, dont need bumpers/lamps, damn sure dont need a hood or fenders...... Lol. Liteweight!
Seriously, dont do that to that car. PLZ!
Im all about the drilling holes in **** this weekend I think
I was told on FCs you can cut/drill away so much of the door that FRP/Carbon doors dont really save any worthwhile weight.
There are various Jap tuners that sell carbon and FRP FC doors, but they ******* crazy money, and I mean crazy
02-25-10 | 09:00 AM
#47
trying to build a racecar
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 580
Likes: 1
From: Austin, Tx.
Here's what I did for my doors. Climb in the car with a Sharpie. Close the door. Trace a line onto the door that follows the chassis opening. Open the door, get out, retrieve metal cutting device of choice (mine is a pneumatic body saw), and cut on that line. Throw that bit, along with all the window mechanicals and glass away. Then dill out the spot welds and remove the door beam.
By the time you're all done you'll have an outer shell, with a little bit of a frame for stiffness, and a latch. I'm guessing ~20lbs per door.
By the time you're all done you'll have an outer shell, with a little bit of a frame for stiffness, and a latch. I'm guessing ~20lbs per door.
02-27-10 | 12:44 PM
#48
Hi. My FC Turbo currently weighs 2535lb (1150kg) with fluids, and would like to get it lighter still, as light as possible, and wondered what weight others have managed to get theirs down to (ideally cars with cages and lights still)?
Mine is totally stripped out, manual windows, no a/c, bucket seats, rollcage, FRP bonnet, bumpers, skirts, F+R overfenders with original metal removed, etc.
The obvious things left to save weight would be gutting the doors leaving just the skin, plastic side and rear screens (cant change front, despite it being a big weight saving), removing the headunit and 2 speakers (currently installed due to previous class rules), removing front seatbelts (have harnesses, but stock seatbelts there for occassional conveniance).
To be fair, that lot I mention I doubt would remove more than about 80lb, if that. What else is worth doing to an FC (apart from running a fuel cell or plastic front screen) to remove more weight than that?
Ideally I would like to get it down to 2300lb or so, but im not sure if thats even possible? Its a small car though
Any info welcomed
Mine is totally stripped out, manual windows, no a/c, bucket seats, rollcage, FRP bonnet, bumpers, skirts, F+R overfenders with original metal removed, etc.
The obvious things left to save weight would be gutting the doors leaving just the skin, plastic side and rear screens (cant change front, despite it being a big weight saving), removing the headunit and 2 speakers (currently installed due to previous class rules), removing front seatbelts (have harnesses, but stock seatbelts there for occassional conveniance).
To be fair, that lot I mention I doubt would remove more than about 80lb, if that. What else is worth doing to an FC (apart from running a fuel cell or plastic front screen) to remove more weight than that?
Ideally I would like to get it down to 2300lb or so, but im not sure if thats even possible? Its a small car though
Any info welcomed
Stock most of the second Gens come at 3,400 pounds.. So not sure how you lost 1,000 pounds already.. But If you want to really take some weight off Get a carbonfiber or aluminm hood. Most of the Verts have the light hood. Not sure why, Replace the Doors with Light wait Shells. Doors are super heavy, Replace the rear hatch with lexan plastic.. Take all seats and replace with one light Weight seat. remove that damn stock radio. That damn thing is 10 pounds. Oh and dont forget those cheap POS Cats and preCats. That ***** is HEAVY.
02-27-10 | 12:48 PM
#49
actually most 2nd gens range from 2600-2900lb(except verts which are more)
my 10th AE weighs in around 2580lb, but i still have full carpet, both seats, dash etc (looks stock inside)
my 10th AE weighs in around 2580lb, but i still have full carpet, both seats, dash etc (looks stock inside)
02-27-10 | 02:19 PM
#50
The Big Ugly!
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 867
Likes: 0
From: Fredericksburg, Va
Wow 3400lbs sounds a little high to me. None of my 7's have been over 2700lbs. I don't know the condition of the OP's paint, but like said above acid dip the car & use a one coat of paint which should save some weight. The rear hatch with lexan is a must & maybe find some tubular suspension pieces (a-arms)