gtrr4

iTrader: (2)

How do you get it torqued? My engine is in the car ( had to replace O ring). I have a 18" breaker bar that I have used to tighten the bolt. My starting point was close to the p/s rack on the p/s and ending point was as far as I could go on the d/s. However the most I can get out of the torque wrench is a reading of 74 ftlbs before I run out of room. Any suggestions?

Jason

RETed

Impact gun.


-Ted

gtrr4

iTrader: (2)

Just impact away? Would it still be ok to do this today, since I did hand tighten it last night? I am wondering what it would do to the locktite.

Jason

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Torque wrench. Torque is 90 ft-LBs. All this information is in your factory service manual and Haynes manual.

You can lock the engine by usually putting the car in 5th gear and setting the parking brake. Make sure to snug the bolt first before you release the clutch.

geargrabber

damn Ted, this is the first time ive seen you post incorrect info!, wth dude?


he needs to torque the front hub nut...


gtrr4: you need to take off your fan, and fan shroud to get enough room to torque properly.

dont half *** this job you could **** **** up. read this http://www.mazdatrix.com/faq/pulley.htm

geargrabber

if your still hitting stuff with the twrench handle... ummmm... use an extension

gtrr4

iTrader: (2)

If I use an extension I will have less room to turn wrench. For example, top of one fender to the top of the other fender. The torque wrench I have I can go from the inner fender wall to the other, but that is only giving about 74 ftlbs. I can set the wrench higher, but it wont click because I have run out of room to turn the wrench. Does that make sense?


I have been doing this in first gear, I will try 5th gear. Thanks

Jason

gtrr4

iTrader: (2)

I have been doing this in first gear, I will try 5th gear. Thanks

Jason[/QUOTE]

Thanks, I just put it in fifth and it clicked at 90ftlbs with just a qtr turn. I am sure it is torqued more than that. But I am comfortable now knowing that it is torqued to the correct amount, if not more. Thanks again.

Jason

Anex 570

Sounds like you might wanna try a different Torque Wrench, on that goes to ~200 ft lbs or about, this situation just seems strange. Perhaps you have a freind a Snap-on or Mac , that mabye they'll let you use in their supervision haha, or they'll do it for ya? Oh also see if you cant do it from underneath of the front end, placing it on jackstands or 6x6 wood or what not, mabye, just mabye you'll have better luck if nothing else helps? The only other thing that I can see that'll help you get it done, is pull the engine and torque it with the flywheel locked eaither on a stand or on you puller. Hope this helped a little.

ddub

Since when is that incorrect info? You can impact the front bolt no problem, I've seen it suggested plenty of times and have done it myself too.

geargrabber

its incorrect info because the manual calls out a torque specification.

how much torque does your impact gun give you? its a mystery. You can torque something too much and actually reduce holding power of the bolt/nut.


im just saying its not correct info.

geargrabber

from: http://www.jlwinstruments.com/torque-tips.htm



During the 1960's the U.S. Air Force conducted a study in order to determine the effect that improper torque practices had on peace time military air crashes. The results of this study were shocking. The data showed that at least one aircraft of every type used by the airforce had experienced a crash due to improperly applied torque applied to a critical fastner. This study helped redefine the importance of torquing specifications and the importance of torque wrench use, maintenance and calibrations. In another industry, an Indy racecar driver in one year experienced several half million dollar engine failures. Some of these failures were determined to be caused by the improper torquing of fastners. It should be noted that the mechanics in their haste to meet deadlines were mishandling these wrenches by throwing them into their tool boxes when they were done using them. The owner of the car and the driver soon realized the importance of proper maintenance and care of these tools and contacted a manufacturer and placed an order for all new wrenches. The difference with these wrenches was the gold plating and felt lined storage boxes he requested. This was done to give the impression of quality and importance to these tools.

Why do I mention these extreme failures? To stress the importance of maintaining all of your torque measuring instruments. Below I will list some things that you can due to help maintain your tools at peak performance.

ddub

Tons of people use impact guns for the front pulley, it's not as big as a deal as you think. There are people that build engines for a living, more than 1 or 2, that I've heard say they do this as well.

RETed

Sure, I'm not denying there is a torque spec, but you need to study the fastener a little bit to make a educated decision.

First, there is a rubber o-ring to minimize oil seepage.

Second, there is a copper crush washer to minimize oil seepage.

Third, there is threadlocker (I personally use Permatex PST for this) on the thread bolt.

So, there are three areas or methods of keeping oil from seeping out.
As for the bolt backing out, the threadlocker helps.
Get enough torque on there, and I doubt it'll back out.

I could probably hand-tighten the bolt (NO, I do NOT recommend doing that) and get it to stay and still not leak.

I can torque the bolt down to spec, but I usually have an impact gun on hand.
This makes for a quicker job.
I've seen the front eccentric bolt impacted on on, literally, hundreds of motors with no problems.

Keep in mind, I am not arguing that torquing down the bolt is the best / proper method of doing this, but I find using an impact gun is good enough...


-Ted

jhammons01

Ted, dDub, you two let me down on this one as well. When putting an engine together follow all the torque specs and tightening patterns. They are all in the FSM and they call it out....there is a reason. You wonder why so many have idle problems from vac leaks. Who out here used the torque wrench while re-installing the UIM/LIM. That front bolt seemed really important to me. I am afraid that the original poster allowed that roller bearing to drop.

Watch the tire man next time you get tires on your car. They have their impacts turned up to about 500 ft lbs so they don't waiste time taking off lug nuts. But do they take the time to adjust their impact when they put the wheel back on?? Hell no. They just squeeze that trigger and tighten away. Two things are bad.

1) watch some small size woman try to change the tire if there is a flat. Using that factory lug wrench and the bolts so tight.....there is no chance.

2) Do you think the rotor can stand up to side stresses applied to it from the bolt being tightened 5 times more than the factory recommended 95 lbs?? Can you say brake wobble 5 times real fast?

Torque specs are there for a reason......why try to re-engineer or guess.

ddub

I torque everything that truly matters in my mind, but for the front e-shaft bolt I just impact it on with loctite and RTV ultra-black at a setting that will be above 90 ft/lbs. Why do you think it matters so much? Honestly like ted does, it's "good enough." I believe Kevin Landers impacts all of his on too, and he rebuilds tons and tons of engines that all do wonderfully.

RETed

I almost never torque down the intake manifolds with a torque wrench.
I do use a thin layer of silicone RTV to help with the seal.
I do torque from the inside-out, but it's all hand tightened.
I've never had a single engine produce a vacuum leak from the flanges using this method.


Tightening lug nuts versus intake manifolds and front eccentric shafts bolts are two different beasts.
I *do* use a torque wrench on lug nuts, period.
Failure of a lug nut can kill you.
Failure of the intake manifold only produces an intake leak that messes your idle up and causes boost leaks for a turbo engine - really vastly different circumstances.


Sure, like I said before, I don't deny that.
This is a difference between a "mechanic" and an "engineer".
Any customer who asks to have fasteners torque to factory spec, I'd gladly oblige.

Side story, I torque my first rebuild to Mazda factory spec from the FSM with a Snap-On torque wrench on all bolts and nuts.
The front OPR managed to fall out, even though it WAS torqued to spec - 30 - 40 lb/ft?
This killed my first rebuild quite easily...but I followed Mazda factory spec out of the FSM?!??!
Now I use an impact gun to pu the front OPR back in; I don't care if it gets stuck or screws the front cover up - I really don't want to be killing engines cause they fall out!


-Ted

jhammons01

Just giving the other side. Let the poster choose which ediology they would like to adopt. My opinion is to follow the FSM. I have had to write processing specifications......I understand how they are formulated.