FC_fan

iTrader: (2)

okay, a friend and I started taking the seals off of my rotors for rebuild today but some of the side seals, corner seals, and especially the apex seals are in there pretty good. I have searched this site and general google searched but didn't find anything on how to take these out. my haynes manual didn't specify either, just says take them out. any special things I should know or do you just yard on them, tap them with a hammer and screwdriver/scribe/punch? I am trying to re-use my corner seals and replacing the apex and side seals.

-Josh

etang

Hey it takes a little bit of work and a nice screw driver. Na i really don't know, but I saw that you where located in VT. Would it happen to be in the Newport area, maybe crusing around in a red rex with an n/a s4 motor in it. hahahaha...soo you are working on the motor that I brought up to your place.

certifiednut

you should be able to soak them with penetrating lube and pull them out with pliers/vice grips. they shouldnt be stuck in there that bad. my apex seals either fell out or came out with my fingers. the side seals should be the same.

FC_fan

iTrader: (2)

some of the side seals seem to be wedged in there pretty good. I was trying to take one out and it broke, now the rest of it is stuck in there. I can't really get pliers on it and my scribes aren't really doing it. same with some of the apex seals. I guess I'll just try soaking them in penetrating fluid and hope that works. thanks

P.S. and yes ethan, I am working on your engine. it doesn't look that bad. I think all the housings are re-usable and the rotors look good so its promising. I think I might have some extra manifolds and might be missing one but I need to go through it all to see.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

If side seals are wedged, it means that they were originally installed too tight or that the engine sat for along time and jammed up.

Penetrating oil is your friend and expect to break them upon removal. Pry with any available instrument but be careful not to damage the grooves.

FC_fan

iTrader: (2)

ya, the engine was disassembled when my brother bought it and was sitting in a shed like that. who knows for how long but it still looks in decent shape. thanks for the info.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

pry the side seals out with a used side seal, if you have one

PvillKnight7

iTrader: (16)

a broken piece of hacksaw blade will slide into the side seal grooves nicely...

FC_fan

iTrader: (2)

I was already trying to use a used side seal and it broke before the other one even budged.lol. I think penetrating fluid will loosen it up though. the hacksaw blade thing sounds good too. if I can find a blade that fits, it's probably stronger then a used side seal.

another stupid question: you just pull the apex seals straight out away from the rotor right? not towards the rotor face? and anybody know the best way to remove corner seals (they might loosen up when I get the apex seals out though).

g14novak

iTrader: (1)

I recently took a motor apart that had stuck side seals. I lubed the seals up with some PB Blaster and heated the rotor with a torch. The seals literally fell out.

PvillKnight7

iTrader: (16)

break the hacksaw blade at an angle so you can use the wedge shaped end to go under the side seals and lift them up high enough to get pliers on them and pull them out.

for corner seals i've used a small screwdriver on the inside groove to tap the seal CW then CCW. Rotate it back and forth and hopefully the pressure of the spring will move the seal up high enough to use the hacksaw blade to wedge under the seal and lift it up.

FC_fan

iTrader: (2)

man, I don't know about the front rotor. the seals are so hard to get out that I am thinking maybe it has been over heated or something. the seals in the rear rotor came off so much easier. I have used pb blaster on everything and let it set about 30 min before even touching it and then blasted it again during the process of taking seals out. I heated up most of the apex seals which I think are 2 peice because there is another long solid peice behind the first one and the one behind is even harder to get out. my friend is going to bench grind them with a wire wheel at work for me and then we are going to measure and check them. the wells in the faces are all different depths. I'm not sure if they are supposed to be that way or not but I'm thinking the wells should be the same depth. note I am not talking about the tubs and the sides of the rotors.

pfsantos

iTrader: (1)

I've had good luck with carb. cleaners. Spray generously and let soak in. Really good at loosening carbon.

importtuner137

I understand your corner seal troubles... But my apex's came out with an easy pull of the finger. My corner seal springs were flatened and I then found out that both my rotor housings were bad. Said screw it and did a TII swap Lolz.

FC_fan

iTrader: (2)

ya, I was contemplating even rebuilding this already torn apart t2 or just buying another t2 motor thats assembled. I got this one from my brother for $100 with out the turbo or intercooler. if it is rebuildable it will be longer lasting then a bought swap I think.

ya, the rear rotor was easy. most things just fell out with a small tug. but the front rotor, everything is frozen right in there. we managed to get almost all the side seals out finally and almost all the apex seals but the back part of one is still wedged in one corner. I think maybe if we heat it up a lot, it might move. I left it literally soaking in a container of penetrating fluid. its been in there for about 3 hours now so I'll go see if that helped. my friend took the rear rotor and ecentric shaft to his work place to clean and measure to see if that ones any good. might all be for not but we'll see tomorrow. new rotors are expensive so heres hoping

importtuner137

Hey man, best of luck to you... If you need any help PM me... Not sure what I'd be able to do for you. But, the Rotoheads have to stick together man.

FC_fan

iTrader: (2)

thanks, I appreciate it. Just reading and asking questions on this site has literally brought me from knowing nothing about rotory engines to being ready to rebuild and reassemble one. they are so simple when you understand how they do what they do.

I went and tried to use a narrow screw driver to get that stuck apex seal out but it only moved a very little bit. I'll heat it up tomorrow or saturday. then we'll see if it's even any good and THEN we'll see if we can get new seals in.lol. yay, I'm learning.lol. thanks for everyones help, forums rule!

arghx

iTrader: (3)

i've only torn one motor down, but it was a recent build, and **** just fell right out. it's kind of weird to hear about how common this is.

FC_fan

iTrader: (2)

I'm pretty sure that it's because the rotors were sitting for a long time is why they are giving me a hard time. maybe this one was more exposed to the air and not oiled as well so the carbon is sticking to the seals a lot more. who knows, but I've almost got all the seals out and if the rotor checks good, I'll be happy. my bro has another parts motor that's an N/A but it has blown apex seals. even if the rotors are still good, I doubt they are the same weight classification as mine(unless I use both of those from that motor).

Are the rotors from a N/A motor the same as from a turbo motor?

importtuner137

N/A rotors run a higher compression... You'll make much more power from using those with everything else the same, than you would with the TII rotors... But, I'm not sure if you'd have to swap out everything else that rides on the E-shaft with 'em... (Counter weight, flywheel, ect.) You may want to ask someone else about that... But, if a quick and cheep swap to use the N/A rotors. I would deffinately do that.

RotaryPilot

Be real careful you don't damage the channels for the seals while coaxing them out. Once everything heats up, even the tiniest defect can snag the seal and keep it from doing it's job. The result will be very short rebuild life.
I would be a little sketchy using NA rotors with a turbo. Real easy to have an over boost condition an blow yer seals.
When going to new rotors, they will need to be rebalanced with the counterweights and e-shaft, as a group. Mazdatrix does this, I dunno who else does.
Your results may vary.

FC_fan

iTrader: (2)

well, the rear rotor checked good except there is a very small nick on one of the sides about half an inch or so from the tub. also, when my friend used the bench grinder wire wheel, it left a whole lot of grooves on the sides. is that how its supposed to be? I will upload a pic in a couple minutes but I only have my cell cam right now so not the best quality. the e-shaft seems to be almost perfect except it has burn discolorization on the sides of the lobes. will post pics of that too. I hope these are normal things. still working on the front rotor.

FC_fan

iTrader: (2)

here are the pics of the nick in the rear rotor and all those grooves on the side.

FC_fan

iTrader: (2)

Here's the e-shaft burn discolorization. Normal? sorry for the poor quality.

FC_fan

iTrader: (2)

well, the front side housing has one blown coolant jacket in the metal. so I need another housing. are N/A and turbo side housings interchangable or do I need to get the turbo specific side housing? thanks.