pissonpistons

so i have an 87 tII and i have a hard time starting it after it gets hot. it usually takes about an hour before it will start again, anyone got some quick fix or an idea of what it could be? thanx

kevino

the most common starting problem is flooding, most commonly caused by leaky injectors. The cheapest way to fix this (and the best in my opinion) is to install a fuel cut switch. This way, when you turn your car off, you simply cut the fuel to the engine using the switch, which will run all of the fuel out of the lines and prevent flooding all-together. If you want to go this route, all you have to do is:

1. Buy some 10 guage wire, wire connectors,and a toggle switch
2. Disconect the battery
3. Locate the wire harness in the dash under your steering wheel that contains the wire for the fuel pump (this should be a harness with 5 wires, the middle one should be black with a white stripe, this middle wire is the wire for the fuel pump).
4. Splice the middle wire and leave extra bare wire for the connectors.
5. Attach your toggle switch by attaching two peices of your 10 guage wire (about two feet worth for each) to the spliced ends of the fuel pump wire, run the wires to a section of your dash where you would like to mount your toggle switch.
6. Attach the wires to your toggle switch and mount it.
7. Reattach your battery.

You should now be all set. Next time you go to turn your car off, simply place your switch in the off position and wait for your engine to run out of fuel. then turn the car off. When you go to turn the car back on, crank the engine a couple of times and then flick the swich on while your still cranking, it should start up every time.

NZConvertible

No offence, but that's not a fix, it's a band-aid. The fix is to get your injectors professionally cleaned.

TIIMakachu

thanks for that great post ...... I have a fuel cut switch and I had no idea I was supposed to use it when I was turning hte car off!
thanks again
Mack

NZConvertible

If you have to depressurise the fuel rail to be able to restart the car, your injectors will be really crudded up. This will be affecting the cars performace. Get them cleaned, it's worth every penny.

pissonpistons

Flooding is not theproblem i know it isn't and i know how to hadle it if it does get flooded. The thing is when i turn my engine off it wont start again for atleast an hour i havebeen told itmight be a compreshion poblem but am not sure.

Icemark

Yours would be the first one if flooding wasn't the problem from what you describe.

and Jason is correct, a fuel cut switch is a band aid, you need to have your fuel injectors cleaned.

NZConvertible

It works like this. The crude in the injectors stops the pintle from sealing properly. When you surn the engine off, even though the pump's stopped running, some residual pressure remains in the fuel system (if you dont believe me, try changing the fuel filter without depressurising the system; fuel will spray out everywhere). This residual pressure pushes fuel through the injectors (which aren't sealing remember) into the chambers. When you start the car, this fuel quickly washes oil off the chamber walls instantly killing compression. My theory on why this isn't a problem when cold is that cold oil is much thicker (and stickier) than hot oil, so it stays where it should be. An engine with low compression to start with is obviously going to have more of a problem with this, but it still comes back to dirty injectors.

jparsiphal

I still find it hard to believe that all those cars with flooding pbs all have leaking injectors. Hmmm, that s a lot of injectors leaking even if they are 15 years or older.

I am pretty sure something else is going on (beside the compression issue) and it's probably happening at startup and not when the engine is shut off.

I really would like to see posts of pple for whom cleaning the injectors ALONE got rid of the flooding problem.

Now, about the fuel cutoff switch:
it seems that this has solved the pb for everybody, but, IMHO, that does not necessarily mean the injectors were leaking in the first place.

Regards,
John -

Icemark

John, I don't mean to flame here, but what you said makes no sense.

If a fuel cut off switch band aid solves the problem it is 100% the fuel injectors, or a driver that doesn't know how to start a fuel injected, ECU controlled vehicle. If the car starts only when fuel hasn't leaked into the rotors like Jason describes that right there says "fuel Injectors dirty and leaking".

There are some that will say it is a hot start issue in the 'puter/ECU, but if that was the case it would happen when the car was 1 day old as well as 15 years old.

It is generally recommended that fuel injectors are professionally cleaned or replaced every 60K miles, but almost no one does it. 13B engines (and many other two strokes) are much more sensitive and likely to have injectors clogging due to the dynamic surge of the intake ports closing.

NZConvertible

Also, because the secondary injectors are operating so infrequently compared to the primaries, they're more susceptible to crud build-up after many years.

gvink

OK, I'll jump in here: I had my injectors professionally cleaned ('87 NA, 88k actual, documented miles) and that TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY solved the flooding problem. In the "before" analysis that I got back from RC Engineering (frequently recommended on this site for injector cleaning, and I agree), of my four injectors, only one was working properly. Two were dribbling instead of spraying and providing reduced fuel output, and one was producing approximately 20 percent of its rated fuel flow. In other words, three were full of crud, and leaking happily when the engine was turned off.

IMHO, I think a lot of the "low compression" flooding problems discussed on this board are actually injector problems. Mazdatrix now sells a little pressure-relief gizmo to drain down fuel pressure after you turn off the engine, which I suspect will help, but it's almost as much $$ as getting your injectors cleaned. And -- to join the chorus -- it's a band-aid.

Plus, even though removing the various intake manifolds to get to the secondary injectors is a truly tedious and unpleasant job, this also gives you the opportunity to clean your six-ports, replace the plastic "spider" lines for the oil injectors that are probably happily leaking vacuum and messing up your idle (Mazdatrix, reasonable), replace the two water hoses that run from the top of the engine to the throttle body and are probably ready to start leaking (Mazdatrix, cheap), replace the manifold gaskets that are probably shot (Mazdatrix, very reasonable), including an improved metal gasket to replace one of the cardboard variety, replace the gaskets to the port actuators that are probably leaking or AWOL (a rare bargain at your Mazda dealer: $1.25 each), replace some minor fuel hoses that are probably ready to start leaking (Pep Boys, dirt cheap -- just make sure they're really fuel hoses!), and inspect your fuel pulsation damper that will set your engine on fire if it's leaking. Oh, and replace your vacuum hoses, either with cute silicon from Mazdatrix or a variety of suppliers (probably the most expensive item on the list) or ordinary rubber from Pep Boys (cheap), which is what I dead ('cause I'm cheap).

I've done all those things over the past six months and I now have one sweet-running engine, that should be good for another 50k without much more to do. So I agree: get the injectors cleaned!

NZConvertible

Someone give gvink a medal!
Great post.

HAILERS

Oh GVINK. If all the lines cracked on the spider for the oil injectors, the idle would be the same. There is no vacuum TO the spider from the throttle body. If the lines cracked or fell off the face of the earth, the worst case scenario is that you would be pulling unfiltered air into your rotors intake stroke via the oil injectors. The oil injectors do the sucking, not the throttle body. Just a small correction on an otherwise fine post.

chiefnobum

hey, how much did you guys pay to get your injectors cleaned? mazda dealer just quoted me 700 US to do it

jetfire76

www.rcengineering.com
IIRC, around $23 per injector. of course, YOU have to pull them out, mail em and re-install them yourself

hugues

what jetfire said. about $25 per injector.

or you could try: www.injector.com (marren motor sports) in CT (east coast)

The good news is that they give you brand new grommets, pintle caps, o-rings with your good-as-new injectors (at least, marren does, I think, rc does as well)

as an alternative and with a bit of patience, you may find a shop locally that does it too (maybe napa or some diesel shop), but the price will be approximately the same

hugues -

jetfire76

oops...sorry. the site is www.rceng.com