HOZZMANRX7

iTrader: (43)

Daniel Stern is the most knowledgeable guy I've ever found on headlight conversion subject. I was looking at a Philips HID conversion kit that seemed a good play on e-bay. Reference the following link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cg...ndexURL=0&rd=1

I e-mailed Dan providing this link and asked his opinion on this conversion. This is a cut and past of his response and should be read by ANYBODY thinking about doing this conversion:



There are many unsafe, illegal and noncompliant products on the market,
mainly consisting of an HID ballast and bulb for "retrofitting" into a
halogen headlamp. Halogen headlamps and HID headlamps require very
different optics to produce a safe and effective -- not to mention legal
-- beam pattern. It is not some great feat of upgrade engineering to put
an HID capsule where a halogen bulb belongs, it is just plain foolishness.
Some types of halogen headlamp bulbs (9004, 9007, H3) use a transverse
(side-to-side) and/or offset (not directly in line with the central axis
of the headlamp reflector) filament, the position and orientation of which
is physically impossible to match with a "retrofit" HID capsule. Even
those halogen headlamps that use axial-filament (9005, 9006, H1, H7) bulbs
are not safely or legitimately "convertible", regardless of what kinds of
"clever" products the junk vendors come up with.

The most dangerous part of the attempt to "retrofit" Xenon headlamps is
that sometimes you get a deceptive and illusory "improvement" in the
performance of the headlamp. The performance of the headlamp is perceived
to be "better" because of the much higher level of foreground lighting (on
the road immediately in front of the car). However, examining isoscans of
the beam patterns produced by this kind of "conversion" reveals *less*
distance light, and often an alarming relative minimum where there's meant
to be a relative maximum in light intensity. When you *think* you can see
better than you can, you're *not* safe.

It's tricky to judge headlamp beam performance without a lot of knowledge,
a lot of training and a lot of special equipment, because subjective
perceptions are very misleading. Having a lot of strong light in the
foreground, that is on the road close to the car and out to the sides, is
very comforting and reliably produces a strong *impression* of "good
headlights". The problem is that not only is foreground lighting of
decidedly secondary importance when travelling much above 30 mph, but
having a very strong pool of light close to the car causes your pupils to
close down, *worsening* your distance vision...all the while giving you
this false sense of security. This is to say nothing of the massive
amounts of glare to other road users and backdazzle to you, the driver,
that results from these "retrofits".

HID headlamps also require careful weatherproofing and electrical
shielding because of the high voltages involved. These unsafe "retrofits"
make it physically possible to insert an HID bulb where a halogen bulb
belongs, but this practice is illegal and dangerous, regardless of claims
by these marketers that their systems are "beam pattern corrected" or the
fraudulent use of established brand names to try to trick you into
thinking the product is legitimate. In order to work correctly and safely,
HID headlamps must be designed from the start as HID headlamps.

The only safe and legitimate HID retrofit is one that replaces the
*entire* headlamp -- that is lens, reflector, bulb...the WHOLE shemozzle
-- with optics designed for HID usage. It IS possible to get clever with
available products, such as Hella's modular projectors available in HID or
halogen, and fabricate your own brackets and bezels. But just putting an
HID bulb where a halogen one belongs is bad news all around.

Icemark

That's intresting, and follows what I had heard as well, that you needed to change the whole relector and head light assembly rather than just the bulb.

Now he mentions the Xenon lighting as HID as well, But didn't seem clear to me on if he means the $20 halogen/Xenon ebay bulbs or the true HID bulbs that require a transformer.

HOZZMANRX7

iTrader: (43)

This discussion is all about the full HID kit that includes transformers. I live in a canyon where it gets quite dark at night, so have been very interested in this retrofit.

Best conclusion seems to be Euro spec light housings with good quality H4 bulbs unless you have a really fat wallet you don't mind letting get thin.

RarestRX

Yo,


Wow, check out the brain on Daniel. *grin*


That was like one of the most coherent posts I've ever read here. Bravo! Is he on the Forum? We need more real information instead of "My brother's friend dropped a TII motor into a NA 2nd Gen and used a Mustang MAF and some bailing wire". *grin*

My current headlight set up is the (lead crystal?) Euro-spec Hella H4 headlights with 55W Piaa Super Whites. I took about an hour to aim them, using a tape measure, wall, masking tape, the whole deal. They work extremely well, and I noticed a big difference, especially in the long distance work. I can't imagine spending any more money on lighting, the improvement would be incremental over what I currently have now.

My 2 bits.

KS
1989 GTUs "Yes Officer, these are DOT approved..."

tweaked

iTrader: (4)

where would a person get these Euro-spec Hella H4 headlights?
or better still the projector beam conversion.

dmoffitt

i too would be interested in finding out more about upgraded lighting (such as some of the "non-flip-up" styles i've seen in some photos).

RarestRX

Yo,


I got mine at New Dimensions, but I did a quick search and found these:

http://www.rapidparts.com/Pages/vwc023p.html



HELLA H4 200mm HI/LO, RECT
Two Light System

I think that's them. Cost about 50 bucks a pop, with a Hella bulb. Like I said, I got the Piaa Super White 55W.

Hope that helps!

KS
1989 GTUs "Never to be used on a California Highway."

HOZZMANRX7

iTrader: (43)

http://lighting.mbz.org/

Lots of information (for instance, stay away from J Spec Halogen lamp casings as they're designed for lighting up the left side of the road), and lots to choose from. I bought my set up via this site.

Like I said, excellent reference as headlight upgrades is one of the more popular mod's. So, best to be done right.

copandengr

I bought a pair of the supposedly high quality Euro conversion units from a man named Patel off E-bay. These had to be installed upside down for the reason mentioned earlier (designed to light the left side of the road) The first time I drove in heavy rain they filled up with water and shattered the bulbs and the chrome inside was ruined also.

They did give the illusion of blue light but did not light the road up even as well as regular tungsten sealed beams. They were not even in the same century as the halogen sealed beam units I am now running.

These things are, IMHO, pure ****. Save your money and or spend it on something worthwhile.

HOZZMANRX7

iTrader: (43)

If you had to turn them upside down for the beam pattern, you simply had the wrong ones. Also, I would expect by turning them upside down you exposed some sort of drain hole providing water access to the housing's interior.

I've run Hella Euro's for 15 years in my 1st Gen, never a problem except a bulb burning out once. Just bought a set of CB's from Dan for my Vert.

This is why I bought my last set from someone like Dan to make sure I got the right stuff and not go through what you did.

DroptopRX7

iTrader: (12)

This lighting issue does come up once in a while and its confusing, especially with ebay sellers out there.
It is the first and most important mod I made to my vert as well. It is the first mod I make to any vehicle I buy.
The light housings are fluted, generally not lead crystal, that aim the light in a much more precise way than the standard lights sold in this country. I buy European light units specifically because their lighting regulations are literally "light years" ahead of ours.
You have a choice of Hella lights and sometimes Cibie if you can find them. Those are the most popular ones, though Lucas sells them as well. (Joseph Lucas Co. aka, "The Prince of Darkness")
These housings generally take an H4 bulb. I run the PIAA H4 since I like PIAA lighting and bulbs.
There are 2 types of Hella light housings you can buy. The genuinely Euro ones that come in a yellow cardboard box that say for offroad use only. I run these and properly aimed (that's the key) they have never caused me a problem and I've been running this type for over 15 years. (Eh, gads). They run about $50 apiece and are NOT DOE approved.
Hella also sells a housing at about $25.00 each and they are DOT approved. I see these sold in the 4x4 magazines.
Of all places, you can get either type at California Car Cover out of Chatsworth, CA. They really had the best prices on the housings I've seen, or go to Autobulbdepot.com. I think that was the name. They advertise in the back of Autoweek.
When you buy either one of these housings, you get the bulb with them.
Go forth and light'em up!

MaxRX7

so bottom line is that those "cheap" HIDs are look-a-likes and/or wanna-bees, correct ?

The real HIDs which are very expensive and consist of MUCH more than a bulb and bulb housing, right ?

HOZZMANRX7

iTrader: (43)

right

copandengr

Hozzman;
No, there was no drain hole for moisture in the reflector housings . The instructions to install them upside down were written on the box by the guy I bought them from. I was curious why this would need to be done so I put them in right side up. At maximum adjustment on my headlight assemblies the light was still aimed into the trees. The best point of aim I could manage was still very poor as far as long distance lighting was concerned. On high beam the pattern was so scattered that the road was dark a short distance ahead and even reflective road signs were not visible untill you were 500 feet or so away from them.

There was a heavy black rubber socket cover designed to seal the back end of the reflector/ socket area. These did indeed have drain holes in them and were installed correctly.

I have been a mechanic for over 33 years, so I can say with some degree of certainty if there was a way to make these things work I would have found it. I tried every way I could to aim these lights properly. Despite my best efforts the end result was completely unsatisfactory. The light pattern was very poor, and of course the leak ruined them.

I maintain that if Mr. Patel advertised on E-bay that these reflectors had to be installed upside down it would have been my own bad luck to have bought them. As it is, I feel I was screwed big time. His ad stated the lamps and reflectors were very high quality and far superior to anything else on the market.

Take my word for it. These things are a worthless piece of ****.

DroptopRX7

iTrader: (12)

Did you leave negative feedback on Ebay?

copandengr

I would leave negative feed back if I could remember who I purchased the lights from. I know it sounds stupid, but I can't remember. If I can figure out who it was I will do so.

The quote from the lighting expert is right on. These so called "Euro" conversions may fool you at first, but the first time you are on an unfamiliar road at night you will find out just how poorly these light/reflector assemblies function.

DroptopRX7

iTrader: (12)

If you bought within the last 30 days you can go to your Ebay page and look at your purchases. Then you could post feedback. Sounds like its been over 30 days though, judging by your response.
Just get the Hella or Cibie lights! Put the clear film over the Hella case cause they break easily. Its sold to Rv'ers to protect their lights from stones. That way, if a stone hits your lights, they are protected by the plastic film. You can get it at Camper's World, its about $19.95 for a big sheet.

fc3s.org

I installed a set of real 6000K HID lights in my 91 vert. I have aftermarket 5X7 (I think that's the size) bulb housings. They are sealed by very tight rubber grommets on the rear of the housings. I had the PIAA super whites before these and they never corroded or got wet. The HID's have not had any troubles either. I did a whole write-up on my site.

www.fc3s.org --> How-To's --> Electrical --> 6000K HID

TRUDSL

my headlights will be done by this weekend.. i could give you a picture right now, but i dont want to spoil it yet.... i will say this... just looking at them before they are even done made me realize how much i love my 2nd gen. after all the hacking, cutting, and 4 weeks of pain in the ***, it has paid off. if i forget to give you some pictures, email me or msg me on AIM = TRUDSL, email = reyrey68@hotmail.com

Funklord

i bought an H4 conversion set for my car, and I was VERY impressed. the bulbs have blue-tinted krypton/xenon, but the light they put out doesnt look blue. you cant tell when they are on during the day because the light they put out is so close to natural light. they light up the road a LOT better than regular halogens. i have pics of the whole install process, but i have yet to develop them. if you want conversion lenses from e-bay look for the seller 'nbtk' he shipped from taiwan to canada in 1 week

TRUDSL

ok i posted some pictures of them, however they are not completely done. i still have to seal the housing and put a custom piece of plastic over the headlight housing to block off the top half and clear up the bottom. but this is the basic idea. they are on a different post on this forum but theres like 6 pics of them. let me know if you want to see different angles and such.

enjoy

TRU

https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...5&pagenumber=2

Mr. Belvi

We don't need 3 threads all with the same topic.