austin2490

Ok guys i have a huge problem. We have fuel going and the motor will crank it just wont fire up. So its getting fuel but it just wont start. it not the spark plugs because we pulled those and they checked out fine so i dont know what it is, please help guys. By the way its an 86 NA.

austin2490

my dad is a chevy and ford boy, u know a v8 or v6 boy so if you could help explain it to him in a way that he would understand that would help. Could it be something with the crank sensor maybe?

Prodigy_723

Yo, from what Ive heard about the crank sensor....most of the time its not it unless you physically messed with it!

It might be flooded, search flooding issues.... many ways to try and help it start!

Removing the egi fuse under the hood and turn it over for like 10 seconds and burn all the excess fuel out and then pop it back in and hopefully voila- but search flooding

lets us know whats up!

Texas_Ace

iTrader: (18)

I have a simular problem, Has it ever been started? i bet you are flooded.

These things love to flood, and are a pain to unflood.

You need to pull the EGI fuse under the hood (in the blck fuse box, it is the one closest to teh engine). Then crank it for 10 secons sit for 10 seconds and repete that a few times, then plug the fuse back in and try it again. If it doesn't start then pull the fuse and repete. If you start to get better after doing this then keep doing it and at some point it should start.

Although i just did it another way, i disconnected the fule pump plug on the drives side rear strut tower by the speaker under the carpet. This way the spark still worked and i could hear it when it started to unflood. At some point it would start for a second and then die, that is when i would reconnect the pump, it will usually start pretty quick after that.

This all all if it is flooded though. if it has never started and just won't start. then you will need to look elseware.

I would pull 1 plug and then crank it with the EFI fuse removed. You want to hear 3 whomp sounds, all the same volume and not breaks, consistant. Then put it back and do the other rotor.

If you hear 3 consistant on both this means that at least you are getting compression and no apexs are gone ect...

Then go from there.

Also, if you are having a REAL hard time starting it, put a little motor oil in the rotos through the bottom plug holes. Then crank it for a little bit then let it sit for a few mins. This will wake up the seals and can help get it going that first time.

Then just go back to cranking it. it WILL smoke bad for a little bit after this but should die off. Also, if you are not already, hook up some jumper cables to another car/truck. These little engine want all the power you can give them.

austin2490

i dont think it is flooded cuz we pulled the spark plugs and they were dry. but maybe that means its not getting any fuel. But the pump is pumping fuel we can hear it pumping away. is it possiable that the fuel just isnt making it into the spark plugs?

Prodigy_723

DUDE- isnt this your first rx7?

Take my word- if I had to bet, its probably flooded! go and try the egi fuse trick and get back to us!

austin2490

haha good point, ill go give that a shot then thanks.

Texas_Ace

iTrader: (18)

Well if they are really dry then it is possible, though they can be dry and it still be flooded. I had this problem just earlier today.

Do you/have you heard any pops from it going bang at all?

If not then you might check the injectors, use a screw driver or a mechnics stethoscop and listen to them. See if they are clicking.

And try that oil trick i told you about, you would be amazed how a little oil in the rotors can help. AND HOOK UP JUMPER CABLES! very important! You want it spinning as fast as possible.

Prodigy_723

I didnt mean to get at you like that man..... try it out and theoretically it should work!

Do some research on rx7s and learn about them and most importantly, learn about your car! Rx7s at times can be really effing frustrating but can be awesome the other times!

Let us know

Prodigy_723

Hey man- i heard that wasnt a good thing to do...put some oil in the rotors...are you talking about the atf trick by the way?

Texas_Ace

iTrader: (18)

Well yes and no, it is the same princable with oil.

And this is perfectly fine, ATF is not though. ATF eats seals, OIL is what the engine injects into the rotors as it runs anyways, so it won' hurt it at all.

It helps build compression and can give an engine that extra bump it needs to start. it will also lubrocate old seals.

I know it worked wounders on my engine.

Now ATF i would not recomend, that stuff eats anything. But Oil is fine and will help.

austin2490

ok well we got some starter fluid (heard to use WD-40 instead though) and we used that and the car fired up went to about 2 or 2.5 rpms and then died 5-10 secs later. But the plugs are dry. I was told to check the fuel injectors but couldnt figure out if they were working or not because the car wont run. Our fuel pump is pumping but possiably not at a high enough pressure? We also thought maybe it was something to do with the air intake? And i try to remove the egi fuse and deflood it, but it still didnt start up. I didnt try putting the oil in like stated above. So i dont know really what it could be, were going to replace the fuel pump tomorrow and see if that dose anything.

I have been on the forums for a while now and have read up on the 7. I have looked at other threads about getting there car started so dont worry im tryin my best to find my own answer too. im just tryin to get a little help from you guys thats all.

NoDOHC

If the engine started on ether (starting fluid) then the lack of fuel theory is gaining validity. Nevertheless, a flooded engine will often start on starting fluid.

I would check the if the injectors are operating as was recommended before. Sometimes the resistor bank gets unplugged or goes bad.

Your engine does not have to start, cranking is completely adequate to test injector operation.

austin2490

ok what do i need to look for to make sure the injectors are working properly? sorry for such a noob question.

austin2490

ok my dad is haveing a hard time believeing that the car can fire up even on starter fluid even though it is flooded. so can someone please explain this so i can tell him that the car can be flooded yet still fire up.

NoDOHC

Get a screwdriver, piece of pipe, stethoscope or something to allow you to hear concentrated but weak sounds. You can also use your fingers to feel.

While cranking the car, try to feel if the primary injectors (under the intake manifold) are clicking. If so, check the fuel rail pressure to see how the regulator us working.

dappleco

have you checked the fuel filter?
try to remove check to see if it is clogedup or just replace it
b4 installing it I would test the pump to seeif it is working or just making a bunch of noise

HAILERS

IF it starts using starter fluid EACH time, but won't stay running, its either a large air leak like the one inch hose on the air intake duct being off (it swivels on the bottom on that large black duct and is close to the throttle body) or maybe the elect plug is off the afm.

You can check for fuel pressure in the rails on a series four non turbo. There's a 19mm size banjo bolt on the rear on the secondary fuel rail that you can loosen. IF the rail has fuel pressure it'll spray in your face if you just loosen it a bit.

What you'd do is jumper the yellow, two socket fuel pump check connector with a piece of wire. Then key to just ON. Pump should be heard running now. Then just crack that 19mm wrench size banjo bolt. See if fuel sprays. If it does, then most likely the fuel pump is good.

The afm is attached to the air filter assy and it's electrical plug is on the inboard side of that assy. It just pulls off. Do NOT unscrew anything to get that plug off. Just pull it off if you ever need it off.

The jpg showing the fuel pump check connector is on a turbo engine but non turbo have it in the same AREA.

Texas_Ace

iTrader: (18)

Ok, i am now almost positive that your injectors are to blame.

Although a flooded engine *CAN* start on starter fluid it usually is not instant or everytime.

If you have an S4, on the Primary fuel rail (under the intake, you can just soo it on the front). You should be able to see a round spaceship looking thing, and on the S4 there is a little screw in the middle DO NOT TOUCH THAT SCREW! But do like above and jump those connters to turn the pump on, you should see that screw move in and out just a little.

If so that you have fuel pressure. easier then opeing the banjo.

Is you have an S5 though the banjo is the best way.


So once you know you have fuel, then all that is left is the injectors. as we have told you, listen to the pri injectors, they are under the intake but you should be able to wiggle something down there, touch them and then put your ear to it and crak the engine. You should hear regula clicking.

If not then you may have bad injectors, or could be like mine and the wiring harness could be burnt and thats what did it. If it is the injetors, then since you have an NA you cn do like me and put your secandary injecotrs into the pri spots to see if it starts.

Test he fuel pressure and the injectors and get back to us.

Prodigy_723

Did the car even run before you bought it? Or you bought it like this?

austin2490

the car ran with the previous owner, but then they let it sit for a while and when they went to fire the car it didnt start up. The fuel pump wasnt working when they went to fire it up so they bought one that did work and had that but didnt have time to install it. so my dad put it in, didnt try to fire the car and let it sit there for a month. so yes it ran, but around jan was the last time.

HAILERS

Well, don't waste time. Go to the car. Jumper the yellow fuel pump check connector. Turn the key ON. Listen for the fuel pump running and fuel running constantly thru the fuel rails. If you hear the fuel pump, then grab a 19mm wrench and loosen the banjo bolt in the jpg just a touch. See if fuel starts spraying or not.

That shouldn't take but fifteen minutes or so. So do it.

Texas_Ace

iTrader: (18)

Espically if it has been sitting, try putting oil in there. It "wakes" the seals up and builds the compression.

And listen tot he injectors, i bet that is your problem if it is a new fuel pump. You did hook the fule pump up right, right? the in and out lines are on correctly? the pump is not wired backwards is it?

Either of these could be a problem as well.