heavy vibration! help!
08-29-06, 06:39 PM
#27
strike up the paean
Originally Posted by bacek
very very incorrect.....
something is wrong with his engine. (i dont know what it is hard to tell over the internet)
if his mounts were bad the vibration wouldnt be as bad since the engine wouldnt be connected to the car. his mounts are probably in good condition since he can notice the heavy vibration throughout the car.
my car had a vac leak once that caused vidration at idle. i thought it could have been the mounts but when i found the vac leak the vibration was completely gone.
something is wrong with his engine. (i dont know what it is hard to tell over the internet)
if his mounts were bad the vibration wouldnt be as bad since the engine wouldnt be connected to the car. his mounts are probably in good condition since he can notice the heavy vibration throughout the car.
my car had a vac leak once that caused vidration at idle. i thought it could have been the mounts but when i found the vac leak the vibration was completely gone.
have you sat in a FC with a bad mount?
at idle the whole car shakes so bad the exhaust knocks against the rear bumper. when we finally got it out, we realized the damn thing had actually split in half at some undetermined point in the past.
08-30-06, 12:47 AM
#28
It's been my experience that broken engine mounts go largely undetected on these cars - especially if it's only one mount. Two broken mounts will allow the engine to move quite a bit and it will contact other components, especially while driving but I've never seen one broken mount result in what he's decribing. A dynamic mass will only vibrate when excited by imbalance. At idle the engine is heavy enough to rest nicely without vibrating if everything is OK. If such imbalance forces were there that would result in things banging around, rubber would have a tough time staying together. If the imbalance is cyclic and not random, there has to be something that is exciting it - maybe it's in the engine, maybe it's in the clutch ***'y. I've also seen chipped/cracked stationary gear teeth result in weird things if the engine doesn't seize up as a result of the failure. If the engine is coming out soon, let us know, you've piqued a lot of people's interest! It sounds like you were going to rebuild the engine anyway, maybe not this soon... You indicated you did some work on the flywheel and clutch - I'm just making an assumption - if you replaced the flywheel with a lightweight flywheel, did you use the right counterweight?
08-30-06, 12:55 AM
#29
this DOES NOT sound like a mount issue due to the description, yes there is a vibration when the mounts rip/tear but it usually is more noticable by a rattle/vibration inside the car and obviously by the transmission and exhaust shaking not very noticable from the bay however.
to me this sounds like either an imbalance in the rotating assembly, since he mentioned the clutch then it may be that the pressure plate or the flywheel came loose but this would be indicated by the clutch working or feeling anormal. next vibration i can envision would be an odd firing sequence which could be caused by fouled plugs, plugged up injector or faulty wiring to one of the injectors.
so in all we have an external balance issue or something to do with spark/fuel. personally i would start with the spark/fuel but if you feel you may have done something wrong with the clutch then feel free to start there.
to me this sounds like either an imbalance in the rotating assembly, since he mentioned the clutch then it may be that the pressure plate or the flywheel came loose but this would be indicated by the clutch working or feeling anormal. next vibration i can envision would be an odd firing sequence which could be caused by fouled plugs, plugged up injector or faulty wiring to one of the injectors.
so in all we have an external balance issue or something to do with spark/fuel. personally i would start with the spark/fuel but if you feel you may have done something wrong with the clutch then feel free to start there.
08-30-06, 03:24 AM
#30
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Thanks for all the inputs, the reason why i decided that the ignition and fuel is okey is because the engine runs good, idles, starts easy etc... a little summary of what i found out:
1. Good compression on both rotors on all three chambers
2. No wierd sounds (except the vibration)
3. the vibration follows the rpm
4. the mounts are okey
5. Nothing loose parts under the clutch
6. Its nothing with the driveline
7. Fan okey
I got the engine jack today so the engine will be out in a few hours! Ill update you guys!
1. Good compression on both rotors on all three chambers
2. No wierd sounds (except the vibration)
3. the vibration follows the rpm
4. the mounts are okey
5. Nothing loose parts under the clutch
6. Its nothing with the driveline
7. Fan okey
I got the engine jack today so the engine will be out in a few hours! Ill update you guys!
08-30-06, 05:31 AM
#31
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Okey, now the engine is out, the right engine mount was abit stuck, but i got the engine out..
When i got it out i noticed that the right mount was sliced in two!
So i got 1 bad engine mount, the flywheel and clutch looks okey and so does the rest of the outside engine-parts...
im gonna change the engine mount now and put the engine in the car again! Hope to have it in this afternoon!
Sindre
When i got it out i noticed that the right mount was sliced in two!
So i got 1 bad engine mount, the flywheel and clutch looks okey and so does the rest of the outside engine-parts...
im gonna change the engine mount now and put the engine in the car again! Hope to have it in this afternoon!
Sindre
Last edited by Sindregutt; 08-30-06 at 05:40 AM.
08-30-06, 10:11 AM
#32
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The engine is in the car again, fired up and took a testrun..
It vibrates less but still to mutch.. If i hold my hand on the girshifter when im at 4000++ it vibrates so fast it tickles in my hand..
arhh! Cant understand what it is
It vibrates less but still to mutch.. If i hold my hand on the girshifter when im at 4000++ it vibrates so fast it tickles in my hand..
arhh! Cant understand what it is
08-30-06, 12:16 PM
#33
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check if u have tranny oil bcuz thats what happen to mine or just add tranny oil..... my whole driveline was really vibrating heavliy. when i put my car in gear it does that and once i put tranny oil the vibrating is gone
08-30-06, 03:23 PM
#35
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I experience that with my car when it broke after a month since rebuilt. My front stationary gear was make garbage. The car started for a couple of day but the idle became rough and unstable.
08-30-06, 03:46 PM
#36
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Did you check to see if the plugs are fouled like Karack suggested? About a month ago my car started vibrating/shaking very badly on start up. I pulled the plugs and they were covered in carbon/oil crud. Anyways, I cleaned them, put them back in and no more vibration.
08-31-06, 04:59 AM
#39
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Im not so good at the wankel engine, so i havent splitted the engine, and as far as i know the stationary gears are the ones "driving" the rotor. If im splitting the engine ill rebuild it to. The pressure plate on the clutch? doesnt seem to have any balancing weights (its a OS Giken twin disc).
Sindre
Sindre
Last edited by Sindregutt; 08-31-06 at 05:02 AM.
08-31-06, 11:35 AM
#42
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I found the "thing" making the heavy vibration!Thanks for all the great inputs! But actually non of em was the correct! I dont think this is very common though!
This is the woodruuf key that should be one peace at the flywheel!
Here you can see a part of it, still on the shaft!
Its sliced in two! First of all, i aint got THAT mutch NM
and the flywheel / counterweight was sitting tight on the shaft. I got a hint from a senior car-repair guy that he had been fixing a car with heavy vibration where the flywheel had changed its position on the shaft..Thats what happend on my car to! I guess it was the big impactwrench kicking so hard at the key, when we removed the old flywheel, that it got a weak point!
PS: the flywheel had turned around 30 degree, it results in SICK vibrations!
Sindre
Last edited by Sindregutt; 08-31-06 at 11:38 AM.
09-01-06, 04:53 AM
#44
Whoa mama! That's one heck of an impact gun! Let's talk about that for a second...
This is certainly not a common thing that people talk about on these cars...glad you solved your problem.
By the way, pulling the rear stationary gear out is simply a matter of removing the 6 flange bolts and sliding it (visible in your second pic) out, so that's the easy one. The front would entail removing the front cover and all the goodies off the eccentric shaft to get to it. That's the one that's time consuming but you wouldn't have to split the engine for either one.
Judging by the second pic, your pilot bearing seal appears to be chewed. For the cost, I'd put a new one in there and make sure the pilot bearing is greased up. I had a TII years ago on which the pilot bearing seized up and the input shaft and eccentric shaft would stick together. It was quite embarrassing pulling to a stop or trying to start the car because the clutch did absolutely nothing.
This is certainly not a common thing that people talk about on these cars...glad you solved your problem.
By the way, pulling the rear stationary gear out is simply a matter of removing the 6 flange bolts and sliding it (visible in your second pic) out, so that's the easy one. The front would entail removing the front cover and all the goodies off the eccentric shaft to get to it. That's the one that's time consuming but you wouldn't have to split the engine for either one.
Judging by the second pic, your pilot bearing seal appears to be chewed. For the cost, I'd put a new one in there and make sure the pilot bearing is greased up. I had a TII years ago on which the pilot bearing seized up and the input shaft and eccentric shaft would stick together. It was quite embarrassing pulling to a stop or trying to start the car because the clutch did absolutely nothing.
09-01-06, 08:49 AM
#45
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Thanks for the tip rd turbo! Its a sick sick inpact gun hehe :P
I actually pulled out the stationary gear by a mistake heh but it seems to be in good shape. Im glad the heavy vibrations didnt mess up anything else. Tested the car now and it runs good
Sindre
I actually pulled out the stationary gear by a mistake heh
but it seems to be in good shape. Im glad the heavy vibrations didnt mess up anything else. Tested the car now and it runs goodSindre
09-01-06, 01:18 PM
#46
Originally Posted by Sindregutt
I found the "thing" making the heavy vibration!Thanks for all the great inputs! But actually non of em was the correct! I dont think this is very common though!
This is the woodruuf key that should be one peace at the flywheel!
Here you can see a part of it, still on the shaft!
Its sliced in two! First of all, i aint got THAT mutch NM
and the flywheel / counterweight was sitting tight on the shaft. I got a hint from a senior car-repair guy that he had been fixing a car with heavy vibration where the flywheel had changed its position on the shaft..Thats what happend on my car to! I guess it was the big impactwrench kicking so hard at the key, when we removed the old flywheel, that it got a weak point!
PS: the flywheel had turned around 30 degree, it results in SICK vibrations!
Sindre
actually i was correct, i was actually thinking it may be a sheared key and it fell into my 'rotating assembly' category and since you had worked on the clutch last it was easily possible the flywheel wasn't tightened properly. not a common problem but i have seen it happen. the problem was you didn't tighten the flywheel nut tight enough! tighten it good this time.
09-01-06, 05:16 PM
#47
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
And by tighten it good, that generally means get a 4-foot breaker bar and sit on it...
Otherwise take it to a tire shop and get them to use the biggest impact gun they have
(the torque spec is something like 350 foot-pounds)
I may have barely passed high-school physics, but I know that
Torque = Length X Force (Feet of breaker bar times pounds of ***)
Otherwise take it to a tire shop and get them to use the biggest impact gun they have
(the torque spec is something like 350 foot-pounds)
I may have barely passed high-school physics, but I know that
Torque = Length X Force (Feet of breaker bar times pounds of ***)
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