hate the smell of having no cats???
#26
Originally posted by MikeL
I am a tuner because I can. I have a Haltech.
An Apexi S-AFC will work just fine for tuning at idle.
No special skill needed for either system for tuning at idle.
Cars with no cats do not have to be offensive.
I am a tuner because I can. I have a Haltech.
An Apexi S-AFC will work just fine for tuning at idle.
No special skill needed for either system for tuning at idle.
Cars with no cats do not have to be offensive.
Isaac
#27
Senior Member
Fine. Just don't tell people that the reason their car spews offensive odors is because they have no cats.
Tell them the truth, which is, that the car is not tuned properly.
Tell them the truth, which is, that the car is not tuned properly.
#29
Originally posted by MikeL
Fine. Just don't tell people that the reason their car spews offensive odors is because they have no cats.
Tell them the truth, which is, that the car is not tuned properly.
Fine. Just don't tell people that the reason their car spews offensive odors is because they have no cats.
Tell them the truth, which is, that the car is not tuned properly.
Isaac
#31
Rotary Enthusiast
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when I put my header on my car I noticed a little bit of a smell.... it was real bad to start with but I put new plugs in, and bought a TPS (my car didn´t come with one) and also played with the variable resistor thingy and it seems that the smell has died down a bit... now if I put my hand RIGHT ON THE TIP I can smell it but other then that even if I let my car idle for a while it is not that bad.... and I have no cats....
but it was worse when things where not adjusted right and my plugs where bad
same thing that would happen on my 71 camaro when things where not adjusted right
but it was worse when things where not adjusted right and my plugs where bad
same thing that would happen on my 71 camaro when things where not adjusted right
#32
I wish I was driving!
Originally posted by BlackSport0187
No, I won't tell them that, because I think rotary engines are by nature more offensive in odor than an equivalent piston engine. Some cars may run too rich and that may cause most of the smell, but I don't think that is what is causing all of it. Even if the culprit is a need to tune the car properly I don't think the only way to do so is by the use of an aftermarket controller. So, are you saying that when brand new all RX-7s were set to run too rich, if so then wouldn't that mean that RX-7s in stock form do make offensive odors? Then wouldn't opening up the exhaust on a stock RX-7 tend to make the smells more obvious?
Isaac
No, I won't tell them that, because I think rotary engines are by nature more offensive in odor than an equivalent piston engine. Some cars may run too rich and that may cause most of the smell, but I don't think that is what is causing all of it. Even if the culprit is a need to tune the car properly I don't think the only way to do so is by the use of an aftermarket controller. So, are you saying that when brand new all RX-7s were set to run too rich, if so then wouldn't that mean that RX-7s in stock form do make offensive odors? Then wouldn't opening up the exhaust on a stock RX-7 tend to make the smells more obvious?
Isaac
By nature more offensive? Incorrect. How about we get things straight. Cars are not about what a person thinks, its about facts.
FACT: If any engine stinks, its b/c its running too rich. It will often smell of rotten eggs
FACT: Catalytic convertors help allow the exhuast to keep burning before it heads out the tailpipes, thus killing how rich the fuel is (and thus flames, and smell).
FACT: All RX-7's, and most every other car, were set from the factory to run rich as to give more longevity to the engines. Engines don't last near as long tuned on the edge of detonation, so they are set rich from the factory.
FACT: Opening up the exhaust on an RX-7 doesn't allow the fuel mixture to keep burning as well, thus, more unburnt fuel remains in the fumes. This is what allows "flames" and the smell. Tuning the car to avoid the smell will result in more power, and it will be tuned better.
FACT: If your car stinks, its running too rich. Deal with it: You need to tune it. Rotaries are tuned rich from the factories, usually more-so than other cars due to their tendency to detonate and blow motors. However, its not the nature of the rotary to stink, its the nature of how they are factory tuned.
Now, from now on, if you don't know the facts, keep your mouth shut, b/c you obviously don't.
"Rotaries stink, its just the way they are".... Nothing more than utter ignorance.
#37
You know, I found this forum by chance looking for parts & actually found a few good tips by using the search engine, but 99% of this forum is pure garbage. Over 193000 posts & ~192900 sound like a bunch of high school kids pointless chatter.
You've got someone like MikeL who has a clue what he is talking about & a bunch of people who don't flicking him ****. No wonder there are 193K posts here. If you're car smells w/o cats the solution is simple, put them back on. If you don't know how to keep the thing in tune, why are you messing with it in the first place? I've bought too many dirt cheap RX7's & see too many perfectly good rex's in junk yards because some shade tree mechanic thinks he is smarter than the engineers at Mazda.
You've got someone like MikeL who has a clue what he is talking about & a bunch of people who don't flicking him ****. No wonder there are 193K posts here. If you're car smells w/o cats the solution is simple, put them back on. If you don't know how to keep the thing in tune, why are you messing with it in the first place? I've bought too many dirt cheap RX7's & see too many perfectly good rex's in junk yards because some shade tree mechanic thinks he is smarter than the engineers at Mazda.
#40
SOLD THE RX-7!
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I have a cat and leaned out 8% at idle (any more and it gets rougher) and it sill stinks a little bit but not when I still had the air pump and ACV and no AFC.
#41
FTD Wanna Be
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I don't know why I'm fighting back. I could save myself the trouble ignore people like Mike does.
Anyways, Isaac, I consider a "tuner" to be a person who has alot of experience with RX-7s, has enough money to try different upgrades and buy the best upgrades, and knows how to adjust their cars for optimal performance.
Why do I know MikeL is a tuner? He has a 400 RWHP 2nd gen, he has gone through a couple different engines, he obviously has enough money to support his RX-7 passion, he has more than one RX-7, he has friends who have bad *** 2nd gens, and he races and TUNES his car. He also has a website so you can see for yourself, which is how I know.
I think I'll just say "OK."
What was this thread about again?
Anyways, Isaac, I consider a "tuner" to be a person who has alot of experience with RX-7s, has enough money to try different upgrades and buy the best upgrades, and knows how to adjust their cars for optimal performance.
Why do I know MikeL is a tuner? He has a 400 RWHP 2nd gen, he has gone through a couple different engines, he obviously has enough money to support his RX-7 passion, he has more than one RX-7, he has friends who have bad *** 2nd gens, and he races and TUNES his car. He also has a website so you can see for yourself, which is how I know.
I think I'll just say "OK."
What was this thread about again?
#42
FTD Wanna Be
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I'd also like to throw this in.
I come to the gen specific/ performance forums to learn something. Rarely do I get on a tech subject and begin to argue with no end. The lounge is here for bickering, threats, ect.
At the same time it is also OK to argue your opinion on a tech subject. It's a grey line, and it's your call.
Thanks for listening to me vent.
I come to the gen specific/ performance forums to learn something. Rarely do I get on a tech subject and begin to argue with no end. The lounge is here for bickering, threats, ect.
At the same time it is also OK to argue your opinion on a tech subject. It's a grey line, and it's your call.
Thanks for listening to me vent.
#43
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I did a little tuning myself. I mean my mufflers rusted off. And now my car stinks like a fat woman in a mini van with no air condition on a hot day. I was thinking about instead of tuning it just put some pipes going straight back and putting some ignitors on the end. That should fix it.
#44
Originally posted by scathcart
]
By nature more offensive? Incorrect. How about we get things straight. Cars are not about what a person thinks, its about facts.
FACT: If any engine stinks, its b/c its running too rich. It will often smell of rotten eggs
FACT: Catalytic convertors help allow the exhuast to keep burning before it heads out the tailpipes, thus killing how rich the fuel is (and thus flames, and smell).
FACT: All RX-7's, and most every other car, were set from the factory to run rich as to give more longevity to the engines. Engines don't last near as long tuned on the edge of detonation, so they are set rich from the factory.
FACT: Opening up the exhaust on an RX-7 doesn't allow the fuel mixture to keep burning as well, thus, more unburnt fuel remains in the fumes. This is what allows "flames" and the smell. Tuning the car to avoid the smell will result in more power, and it will be tuned better.
FACT: If your car stinks, its running too rich. Deal with it: You need to tune it. Rotaries are tuned rich from the factories, usually more-so than other cars due to their tendency to detonate and blow motors. However, its not the nature of the rotary to stink, its the nature of how they are factory tuned.
Now, from now on, if you don't know the facts, keep your mouth shut, b/c you obviously don't.
"Rotaries stink, its just the way they are".... Nothing more than utter ignorance.
]
By nature more offensive? Incorrect. How about we get things straight. Cars are not about what a person thinks, its about facts.
FACT: If any engine stinks, its b/c its running too rich. It will often smell of rotten eggs
FACT: Catalytic convertors help allow the exhuast to keep burning before it heads out the tailpipes, thus killing how rich the fuel is (and thus flames, and smell).
FACT: All RX-7's, and most every other car, were set from the factory to run rich as to give more longevity to the engines. Engines don't last near as long tuned on the edge of detonation, so they are set rich from the factory.
FACT: Opening up the exhaust on an RX-7 doesn't allow the fuel mixture to keep burning as well, thus, more unburnt fuel remains in the fumes. This is what allows "flames" and the smell. Tuning the car to avoid the smell will result in more power, and it will be tuned better.
FACT: If your car stinks, its running too rich. Deal with it: You need to tune it. Rotaries are tuned rich from the factories, usually more-so than other cars due to their tendency to detonate and blow motors. However, its not the nature of the rotary to stink, its the nature of how they are factory tuned.
Now, from now on, if you don't know the facts, keep your mouth shut, b/c you obviously don't.
"Rotaries stink, its just the way they are".... Nothing more than utter ignorance.
Now back to the subject, everyone knows that the Series 1 RX-7s came with thermal reactors and were tuned to run really rich because it helped the operation of the reactor. Was this for emissions reasons or to avoid detonation? Obviously the former, because on the Series 2 cars the reactor was eliminated and was replaced with a series of catalytic converters. It is well documented that the fuel mixture was then adjusted to not run as rich (no reactor) and a resulting boost in fuel economy was achieved. To avoid detonation or to meet emissions requirements, probably a little of both? So, like you said if you don't know all the facts keep your mouth shut. The whole truth and nothing but the truth bro.
As you stated, rotaries are tuned rich from the factory, more so than other engines. Could this be, as history shows, that rotaries are not as clean running as piston engines (in some respects) and that is why they have to run rich to pass emissions? Wouldn't that mean that in stock form the fuel settings on a rotary are set to run more rich than others (we already knew that), thus they create more of a smell than others, and the smell is amplified more so when the exhaust is opened than on others? Huh, so one might say that rotaries are "by nature" a more stinky engine in stock form? I think I proved my point.
Isaac
#45
Originally posted by qwerty
You know, I found this forum by chance looking for parts & actually found a few good tips by using the search engine, but 99% of this forum is pure garbage. Over 193000 posts & ~192900 sound like a bunch of high school kids pointless chatter.
You've got someone like MikeL who has a clue what he is talking about & a bunch of people who don't flicking him ****. No wonder there are 193K posts here. If you're car smells w/o cats the solution is simple, put them back on. If you don't know how to keep the thing in tune, why are you messing with it in the first place? I've bought too many dirt cheap RX7's & see too many perfectly good rex's in junk yards because some shade tree mechanic thinks he is smarter than the engineers at Mazda.
You know, I found this forum by chance looking for parts & actually found a few good tips by using the search engine, but 99% of this forum is pure garbage. Over 193000 posts & ~192900 sound like a bunch of high school kids pointless chatter.
You've got someone like MikeL who has a clue what he is talking about & a bunch of people who don't flicking him ****. No wonder there are 193K posts here. If you're car smells w/o cats the solution is simple, put them back on. If you don't know how to keep the thing in tune, why are you messing with it in the first place? I've bought too many dirt cheap RX7's & see too many perfectly good rex's in junk yards because some shade tree mechanic thinks he is smarter than the engineers at Mazda.
Oh, and one more thing, how can opening up the exhaust on a car cause it to be sent to a junk yard? What adverse effects can it possibly cause? There is no need to lean out the fuel mixture as you claim, because let's face it the engine will probably last longer via the use of a relatively safe factory settting.
Isaac
#46
Originally posted by Zach McAfee
I don't know why I'm fighting back. I could save myself the trouble ignore people like Mike does.
Anyways, Isaac, I consider a "tuner" to be a person who has alot of experience with RX-7s, has enough money to try different upgrades and buy the best upgrades, and knows how to adjust their cars for optimal performance.
Why do I know MikeL is a tuner? He has a 400 RWHP 2nd gen, he has gone through a couple different engines, he obviously has enough money to support his RX-7 passion, he has more than one RX-7, he has friends who have bad *** 2nd gens, and he races and TUNES his car. He also has a website so you can see for yourself, which is how I know.
I think I'll just say "OK."
What was this thread about again?
I don't know why I'm fighting back. I could save myself the trouble ignore people like Mike does.
Anyways, Isaac, I consider a "tuner" to be a person who has alot of experience with RX-7s, has enough money to try different upgrades and buy the best upgrades, and knows how to adjust their cars for optimal performance.
Why do I know MikeL is a tuner? He has a 400 RWHP 2nd gen, he has gone through a couple different engines, he obviously has enough money to support his RX-7 passion, he has more than one RX-7, he has friends who have bad *** 2nd gens, and he races and TUNES his car. He also has a website so you can see for yourself, which is how I know.
I think I'll just say "OK."
What was this thread about again?
Isaac
#48
MikeL and Felix Wankel- you guys know your stuff, but sometimes you get stuck in a mindset.
Haltech manual chapter 7 "cold starting and running" - read it.
Your car NEEDS to run quite rich on start up and cold running condition in order to combat manifold whetting.
Did you go in and Zero out the factory loaded cold cranking and fuel correction vs coolant temp maps?
A modern car w/ close coupled cat or pre-cat like our cars gets that cat up to temp pretty fast. I think the smell of our catless cars on start up could arouse suspicion since it smells like raw fuel, not that sweet-ish sulfur-ish smell cat equiped cars have.
Runnig in close loop- yes, it should not smell. Ian
Haltech manual chapter 7 "cold starting and running" - read it.
Your car NEEDS to run quite rich on start up and cold running condition in order to combat manifold whetting.
Did you go in and Zero out the factory loaded cold cranking and fuel correction vs coolant temp maps?
A modern car w/ close coupled cat or pre-cat like our cars gets that cat up to temp pretty fast. I think the smell of our catless cars on start up could arouse suspicion since it smells like raw fuel, not that sweet-ish sulfur-ish smell cat equiped cars have.
Runnig in close loop- yes, it should not smell. Ian
#49
Engine, Not Motor
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I have a dead cat, running 4 TII injectors and an FD fuel pump. My car doesn't stink at idle because I took the 30 seconds to tune S-AFC at idle. Not hard.
However, most FCs will run rich at idle due to various problems (leaky injectors mostly), and the vast majority of them have a dead or flaky ACV, so....you get the stink and dead cats. Keep the car running like it was designed to (clean those injectors, check that ACV, etc.) and it won't smell.
My 3 cents...
However, most FCs will run rich at idle due to various problems (leaky injectors mostly), and the vast majority of them have a dead or flaky ACV, so....you get the stink and dead cats. Keep the car running like it was designed to (clean those injectors, check that ACV, etc.) and it won't smell.
My 3 cents...
#50
Originally posted by eViLRotor
This is an interesting argument!
I have a 3 inch custom exhaust, no emissions!
My car smells like fuel at idle = running too rich = needs leaning out with the Wolf3d = not stinky just because its a wankel.
Just MO...
This is an interesting argument!
I have a 3 inch custom exhaust, no emissions!
My car smells like fuel at idle = running too rich = needs leaning out with the Wolf3d = not stinky just because its a wankel.
Just MO...
Keep those rotors spinning,
Isaac