Black91n/a

I think the noise and dust would put most people off, and I wouldn't run them on the street unless more civilized ones aren't up to it. I've run them and don't like them as a street pad.

The material is stiffer, so not the same, that's how I see it anyway. I'm not sure what the official interpretation is, but then I doubt anyone would be able to tell them apart from new stock ones anyway.

Agreed, but still overkill and unneeded expense. If you do track days then sure, use it, but otherwise it's money better spent elsewhere IMHO.

I doubt anyone would protest either way, but it's still cheating, since that's still not stock. I think the only 100% legal thing to do is keep the rotted stock bushings or replace the whole thing.

It's an acceptable method of aligning the car post-crash, so you can use them in stock class.

Roen

iTrader: (2)

If you could make the DTSS eliminating bushing out of the stock rubber, then under the suspension rules, it would actually be full legit. However, I guess the whole point of the DTSS eliminators was to be as stiff as possible, and the stock rubber aint that stiff. They never said the same bushing type had to go back in there, just something with the same material as an OE replacement.

Yeah, the bushing is a grey area here, since there could be multiple interpretations. I guess if they appended the rule with "bushing must be the same material and stiffness as an OE replacement", then it could work. Based on my interpretation on a general bushing type ("rubber"), the Mazdaspeed FLCA bushings would qualify under that provision.

What was the famous saying, "cheat the wording, not the intent?"

Roen

iTrader: (2)

STS2

The GTUs works best in STS2, as it's the only FC with LSD that can compete in this class.

Make sure all fluids are in good shape, use a good synthetic engine oil (RP, Redline, Amsoil, Mobil 1, Idemitsu) or if you're cheap, Castrol GTX works. Make sure your tranny and diff fluid is changed to something better (Redline MT-90 for the tranny, Redline 75w90NS for the diff, RP 75w90 for tranny and diff, Neo 75w90 for tranny and diff). Run a 70% Water/30% coolant mix. Make sure the brake fluid will not fade during a session, if it does, flush and bleed.

The car should be corner-weighted and aligned, with camber set at max, but equal on both sides. Caster should also be set at maximum, but equal on both sides. Use strut mount spinning, camber bolts and camber/caster plates to achieve this. Set the front toe to 1/4" total toe-out, set the rear to 0 toe with DTSS, 1/8" total toe-in without DTSS.

Aftermarket "D-type" Steering Wheel
Aftermarket Pedals
2 x Lightweight Bucket Seats, If you're tall, go with the Bride GIAS Low MAX Seats
86 Sport Spoiler
86 Sport Aero Kit
Racing Beat/Mazdatrix One piece Front Strut Upper Bar
Cusco/Tanabe Front Lower Bar
Cuso 2-point Rear Strut Bar

(Assuming that tires must sit flush with fender, according to the rules) Aftermarket, Lightweight 15 x 7.5 Wheels, +30
Bridgestone RE-01R 195/50/15 (I really wish they made a 205/45/15, or 225/40/15)
Koni Race shocks, Revalved Koni Yellows or Revalved Bilstein HD's all work, Bilstein's being the cheapest option, but they have no adjustment
If going with the Revalved Koni's/Bilstein's, Ground Control Coilover Springs (400/275) and Ground Control Camber Plates
If going with Koni Race Shocks, see what provisions they have for an adjustable spring perch coil spring setup.
DOT-compliant stainless steel brake lines
Stainless steel clutch lines
New OEM rotors/Power Slot rotors/whateve suits your fancy/budget
Speedbleeders
AWR Speedway style adjustable front sway bar
Eibach adjustable rear sway bar
DTSS Eliminators if your bushings are shot, which they most likely are. You could also order a stock replacement triaxial hub which contains new DTSS bushings. ($1200)
Aftermarket Rear Camber Adjuster Rod
Mini 12V battery
Battery Relocation to Passenger Bin Area
Oil Baffle Plate (To stiffen block)
K&N Cone Filter
Sealed Ambient Air Box
Speedsource Short Primary Header
Bonez High-flow Catalytic Converter (Unless someone knows of a better high-flow cat? Yay for 2008 rules!)
Rtek7 2.0 w/ ITS/STS mod
Mazdatrix Short Shifter (via interpretation of the rule 14.10.G: "Any mechanical shift linkage may be used")
2.5" OD Single-exit lightweight 3" tip exhaust (whichever side is the shortest piping from the catalytic converter)

For an all-out autox car:
Rub strip, emblems and mud flap removal
Mazda Competition Front Diff Mount
UHMW/Delrin Rear Diff Mount
UHMW/Delrin Tranny Mount
UHMW/Delrin Engine Mount
UHMW/Delrin Front & Rear Control Arm Bushings
Racing Beat Race Spark Plug Wires
Underdrive main, alternator, water pump pulleys
A/C Removal
Hawk HP+ brake pads

For a street/track car:
Mazda Competition Tranny Mounts
Mazda Competition Diff Mounts
Mazda Competition Engine Mounts
Energy Suspension Front & Rear Control Arm Bushings (Black or Red)
Racing Beat Street Spark Plug Wires
A/C removal
Hawk HP+ brake pads

For a street car that does light autox duty:
Mazda Competition Front Control Arm, Diff, Tranny and Engine Mounts
Energy Suspension Rear Control Arm Bushings (Black)
Racing Beat Street Spark Plug Wires
Hawk HPS or Porterfield R4-S

You car WILL be undriveable/unbearable on the street for the average enthusiast if you go the all-out track route. Unfortunately, that is the most effect setup.

BTW, Camber bolts are specifically mentioned in STS2, but not mentioned at all in Stock. Methinks crash bolts are illegal for stock.

Black91n/a

They're probably much less tolerant of tortured interpretations in stock than in other classes. Going further in your interpretation, breaking it down more, stock material is a polymer, so is urethane, delrin, etc, so those would be legal, no?

Crash bolts have been used in stock class extensively in the past.

Roen

iTrader: (2)

touche, point taken.

To the unedjumacated, rubber is rubber, even if it's stiffer. I'm just saying, that's probably as gray as you could go. Obviously, on the safe side, stock OEM bushings would be the way to go.

Still bugs me that Camber bolts are specifically mentioned in STS rules, but nowhere in Stock. The rules do change very year, especially with the advent of (YES!!!!!) High flow cats in STS this year!

Any comments on the STS2 list? I'm debating removing references to the 86xx and 28xx Koni series since not many people would feasibly run them. You know I'm a big proponent of the GC/Koni/Bilstein setup, espcially since the GC/Bilstein setup would be done right for $1500.

KhanArtisT

iTrader: (2)

lol, good of course. I've learned so much from yours and black91n/a's posts its not even funny.

Black91n/a

You probably don't want max camber in the rear, maybe more like 1.5 degrees will be good.

If you really want, just fine to skip over these.

If you want, bracing adds weight. See https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/how-build-lower-arm-bar-under-%2415-448638/ for a cheap lower arm bar.

The new Toyo R1R will be available in a 225/45/15, and is said to be faster than the RE-01R. I'd try that. You can get some 15x7.5 40mm offset Rota Slipstreams from 18racing.com for $550 shipped. You'll need spacers, but it's a good, cheap and reasonably light setup.

Other coilover setups would do fine too, like some of the higher end integrated stuff, like Zeals, but if you really want to win, then JRZ, Koni 28xx series, Dynamic and so on would be what you want.

Really helps threshold clutching. In all seriousness stock is fine.

Overkill, but it's the best choice, as it's the lightest and the most tunable. If budget's a concern then go with the S4 ST bar maybe, it's adjustable.

It's to help de-aerate the oil and keep the pickup in the oil, I don't think it'll really do anything to stiffen the block.

Not really needed, probably won't make you faster, but if you want one go for it.

You'll want race pads for track work, and high temp fluid.

I'd ONLY run stock or spherical bearings in the rear control arms if they're used in conjunction with individual rear camber adjusters, as they twist those bushings, potentially causing binding.

Roen

iTrader: (2)

New Tires to use:
Toyo T1R
Kumho Ecsta XS
Bridgestone RE-11 (2009)

Yea, I meant to give a camber spec in the rear. I usually run 1.5 degrees negative in the rear myself.

I had spoken to my rotary mechanic regarding the baffle plate, aeration of the oil isn't really a big problem in our engines, and he did mention that it does stiffen the block, but for what reason, I've forgotten. I'll ask him again this saturday.

Mazdatrix Short Shifter was just for kicks, anyway.

I should've said street/competitive autox car. But even on a stree/track car, isn't the HP+ the best compromise pad for driving on the street and on the track on a single set of brake pads?

That's why I only mentioned the subframe link camber adjuster as opposed to the individual wheel adjusters. Plus, under the "tortured interpretation", you could extend the modify link on trailing arm suspension rule to include camber links. Plus, spherical bearings are specifically outlawed in STS.

rotarymike

iTrader: (1)

that's AWESOME.

Seriously, think ground control on top of AGXs if you're not tracking the car. Or, Eibach pro-kits with the same struts. Tein is expensive and a bit more hardcore than what you're looking for.

evl mnky

Great info guys Im a noob to the Rx7 and bought mine for a fun autoX car. I doubt I'll be competitive any time soon so for now my main concern is getting my car prepared so that I can have a good time and learn how this car drives.

I have a 87.5 SE, would mine have DTSS that I'd need to eliminate?

My local autoX group runs Nasa style rules so Im thinking I'll be in class E.

Whats a good starting place for suspension that wont kill my pocket but will allow me some fun?

Roen

iTrader: (2)

all FC's had DTSS.

NASA runs different classing, do you want to stay in class or move up?

I posted a budget suspension buildup earlier in this thread, please read through it.

evl mnky

Ok, thats what I thought, just making sure.

well I was checking out their ruling and basically I'll be in the E-Class for Modified street tires under 3 litres. This allows me to pretty much change anything and still stay in that class. Unless I switch to a "race tire" then i'll be in E class either way

Ok, i saw that and I'll go through it some more.

Would you think getting Turbo II springs and KYB AGX shocks would be decent or would the Koni's be the best choice?

MazdaMike02

iTrader: (4)

Get KYB struts and tein lowering springs...thats what I'm gettin off a buddy of mine for a good price.

Roen

iTrader: (2)

Avoid any street spring unless you want more body roll, that's been my experience in the past. Coilovers are stiff enough to prevent the added body roll.

TII springs are the stiffest stock length spring, which is why it's always been my choice. KYB's are good for budget setups, Koni's cost more eventually, but are better shocks and can be upgraded to a full coilover setup with a Ground Control Kit. It can also be upgraded into a full race shock with a revalve from the Koni factory or other authorised Koni rebuilders.

I currently use Bilstein HD's on my AutoX car, I wish they made the Sport damper for our cars. It has no adjustments, being a Bilstein shock and all, but I like it fine where it is.

evl mnky

Would KYBs work w/ the ground controls?

Roen

iTrader: (2)

they would, but the KYB's get underdamped as you get into higher spring rates, I don't think you would want to exceed 350/400 lbs. Konis can handle up to 500 lbs, but you'd want a revalve at that point to make sure your force damping curves are accurate for the spring you're using.

btw, the springs that I use are found on the TII, vert, 89-90 GTUs (not GTU) and 88 GTU

evl mnky

excuse my ignorance, but there is talk about "revalved" konis...

can someone further explain what these are, and where one would get them?

Black91n/a

A "revalve" is when one sends the shock (could be any number of different brands) to a rebuilder who will, through changes to the piston assembly, cause the responses of the shock to change. This will cause it to give different forces than the original shock. This may or may not affect the general shape of the response curve, but it'll certainly change the magnitudes.

Many coilover companies advise revalving if you change springs by more than +/- 2kg/mm (~100lb/in).

RETed

Are you racing?
If you're not racing, don't worry about it.
They are not made for street use.


-Ted

Black91n/a

Good point, you need to be running some very stiff springs before it's needed. At that point you'll be suffering from bad ride quality and be loosing grip because it's bouncing over uneven pavement (tires need to touch the ground to grip).