sp00led

Even with the roll calulated in, im sure a new strut/spring combo is gonna be a big improvement over 20 year old oem stuff. right?

Roen

iTrader: (2)

shocks - definitely. I'm partial to Koni and Bilstein since they're upgradeable in the future, but other people run KYB, Tokico, etc.....

Mazdaspeed shocks are rebadged KYB's.

springs - If you have NA spirngs, ditch them.

If you have turbo springs and if they're not sagging, it's not a bad idea to keep them to maintain the body roll level as it is now, instead of increasing it. Like I said, I AutoX/HPDE/TT with Turbo II springs. They're stiffer than NA springs (With the exception of some GXL's, maybe the 88 GTU and the GTUs) and if they're still in good shape, there's no reason not to use them.

I run the same times with my FC as a GC/Koni'd Acura RSX Type S at the local autocross, to give you an idea. My FC on street tires is 1.8 seconds slower than a 928 with shocks and R-compounds around a 1'20" road course. Needless to say, the TII spring is competitive.

If you plan on autocrossing, keep in mind that changing the spring is an automatic move from the stock classes.

Their centre of gravity is also around ground level, which makes for a nice small roll couple.

Black91n/a

Yes, low center of gravity too, but that's not the reason why they choose it so low IIRC.

Let me just say that I've never seen an official picture or description of the roll center blocks that AWR sells, but I saw a picture in a private classified ad once and it looked to be a spacer that fits between the ball joint and the control arm, which would do nothing. You need to move the pivot point relative to the spindle.

Rear roll center: http://e30m3performance.com/tech_art...nter/index.htm
Front roll center: http://www.miracerros.com/mustang/t_rollcenter.htm

Basically it's not easy to change, so keep the lowering within reason and don't worry about it, that's getting to be fairly advanced suspension tuning stuff.

MaczPayne

iTrader: (5)

Those are great links, thanks for posting them!

What would you consider as "lowering within reason"?

Black91n/a

For street use 1" is the limit you want to go without needing rear alignment pieces, if you've got them then maybe 2"? Basically just don't go crazy and slam it untill the tires are up in the fenders and the car is mere inches off the pavement.

Besides, going very low on the street is impractical as you'll have problems with getting into sloped driveways and such things, especially if you've got a body kit or front lip of some sort. It also makes jacking the car up a pain.

sp00led

yeah, im not so worried about the race ready stuff. after i get through my first part of college i should have enough for a real suspension setup: i.e. coilovers, sways, camber adjusters and so forth.

Thanks guys that was really the info i needed

Roen

iTrader: (2)

haha, my cheap suspension works for me!

(Stock springs, stock sway bars, aftermarket shocks)

initial D is REAL!

I agree. If this guy is in High School and is low on cash, I would just make sure the suspension is working properly, sticky tires, and improve your driving skills. It might not get you as many girls, but high school girls shouldnt be too hard to get. Get it while the gettin is good. Gitty gitty gitty. Alright?

Stock springs wont be completly bad, and sways too. The shocks and sway bar bushings are the parts that really go bad and will hurt the way the car handles. Its not as cool, but its better than buying lowering springs with old shocks, no camber adjustment, and used tires

MaczPayne

iTrader: (5)

Sounds reasonable to me. Thanks again!

owen is fat

RxBen has them on his FC. they work because they let the lower ball joint remain in its optimal range of travel. they prevent the balljoint from reaching its limits of movement and thus binding and changing the handling of the car drastically in an instant which could be catastrophic on a racecourse.

I dont know if they provide better feel to the car by keeping that balljoint in the normal operating range of motion, but its possible.

I too think the FC suspension becomes handicapped the lower you go... the guys suggesting the fresh TII springs over a set of nicer shocks are right on point with a superbly handling streetcar that can do very well at autox too.

Roen

iTrader: (2)

I should caveat my points by saying, aftermarket shocks are the most noticeable handling item you can install at first.

The reason why I didn't mention bushings? The labor cost involved if you cannot install them yourself.

Here's my el cheapo budget setup (in order of importance)

Good 15" Street Tires (My recommendation is the Bridgestone Potenza RE-01R, but the Falken Azenis RT-615 is a bit cheaper for similar, but still inferior, levels of grip and handling. Bridgestone's 195 tire size is actually wider than Falken's 205 tire size)
KYB AGX's (Koni's or Bilsteins if you plan to upgrade later to true race shocks, not just street coilovers)
Stock TII Springs
Stock TII Sway Bars
Polyurethane (ES) Sway Bar Bushings
S4 Endlinks
Polyurethane Sway Bar Endlink Bushings
Polyurethane Control Arm Bushings
DTSS Eliminators (if your DTSS system is shot, which 95% of all FC's are)

That will put you into STS2 for Autocross where the car will be middle of the pack, but still fun and competitive. (Thanks to the Miatas, MR2s around.)

initial D is REAL!

If your really low on cash, you could buy a Tein key chain , and put he sticker on your car. I saw a guy with a Megan sticker on his car, I dont recomend doing that. LOL JK

Great info guys, I'm on a budget too, and I think I need to get new sway bar end link bushings. Mine are shot

sp00led

is there any way to completely delete the dtss system or do you have to just buy the eliminators. I know it was complicated but possible to remove the HICAS system on the 300zx TT and most people did just buy the eliminators.

1SWEET7

iTrader: (1)

Tokico Blues, with RS*R Race Springs FTW.

Black91n/a

The DTSS is just those two bushings, replace them and it's gone, it's a totally passive system and much simpler than the HICAS.

I've read that the Blues with the RSR springs is way underdamped, not surprising for a shock designed around stock rates combined with springs that are quite a lot stiffer.

sunshine

iTrader: (3)

Go the the FS forum and keep an eye out for the KYB AGX or tockico's paired with eibach, intrax, RB springs. These are some of the most popular combos for these cars, and therefore used sets are not to expensive and will get you that 1-1.5" drop. If you have 16" or 17" wheels, the car will look lowered, but will not need the susp adjustments these other guys are talking about.

That is the cheapest way to go. If you dont like that option, then ur SOL.
-a

Roen

iTrader: (2)

you still will need the adjustment for any drop over 1".

owen is fat

Rock on Roen, thats great advice and a well thought out list!

except for the DTSS bushings, all of the other bushings can be replaced in a short time with simple hand tools and a vice or big c-clamp.

yes there is a good DIY for the DTSS using a gear puller tool, but that is still a little more involved for the beginner.

the front lower control arm bushings can be removed by hacksawing along the rubber/metal innerpiece in the bushing (think of it being like a tin can inside the rubber part) and then cutting the metal (tin can portion) so you can release the pressure so it comes off with a lot of twisting back and forth while pulling it off the control arm shaft that it fits over.

the swaybar bushings and endlink bushings are super simple.

with some shocks on the car and those simple bushing changes, the handling will be back to incredible like it should be for any good FC.

Black91n/a

http://forum.teamfc3s.org/showthread.php?t=19856

That's how I did my DTSS eliminator bushings, pretty easy actually.

sp00led

im no newb to cars so it shouldnt be a problem. i had to have a contortionists hands working on the vg30 in the Z. jeezuz, talk about having no room for anything.

FelixIsGod29X

iTrader: (50)

Pretty interesting thread. I would not say im even close to an expert on suspension, i just have all the basic idea's. But wouldn't the racing beat springs be a solid choice for an all around 7? I know that they have put a lot of effort into there research and seems like they would be the ideal choice for springs. Hell they even went the extra mile to make stiffer springs for the verts out there. Dont know how everyone else feels but racing beat will always have my vote.

Roen

iTrader: (2)

The question isn't one that has only one answer. What do you want your suspension to do? How much money do you want to spend? How much of the work can you do yourself? Do you want to have an upgradeable suspension or do you want to buy new units everytime? etc, etc, etc...

blackball7

iTrader: (1)

ok i have to jump in on this! cutting spings = fail

probably one of the dumbest things to do and can cost you the most in the end. when you cut the springs you change the spring rate. which is bad. also it will lower the car... but the shocks are not meant to have lowering springs on it, it will change its travel and can lead to blown shocks. then your car will handle even worse then before and you will HAVE to buy new shocks.

also if im not mistaken which i very well may be but i believe that our suspension is McPherson strut suspension which means that the springs are not the same width all the way up and down which would seriously screw up you car even more.

so please just save up and do things the CORRECT way. i dont want to see another Rex in a tree or phone pole cause you didnt want to save up for a few more weeks.

sp00led

well i wasnt planning on cutting the springs, but if you had a set of konis or tokicko's would that accomdate a cut spring? and this is cutting maybe .4 inches of the spring.

initial D is REAL!

save money and buy proper springs