Good suspension parts availability for FC?
03-23-16, 10:48 AM
#76
RockLobster
My car probably does not have enough power to manifest this power on understeer everyone is talking about. But it will oversteer some coming out of corners.
We seem to run WAY more neg camber than everyone else too. My current baseline setup is like 4.2deg neg in the front ant 1.8neg in the rear. No rear bar. Stock front bar. It definetly lifts the front tire but i don't get any understeer at all.
It turns in like a monster but we run quite a bit of toe out. About 3/16".
Every time we hook up the rear bar it wont put power down and just skates everywhere.
Well, I found understeer can happen for many reasons.
Back when I had the stock S4 clutch type rear end and a laggier stock hybrid my TII would understeer off the apex of 15-25mph turns if I was trying to pull out in 2nd where I didn't have enough torque to break the rear loose.
It was the clutch type rear locking that caused this understeer, it went away when I put the FD torsen rear in. A proper clutch type with a lot of ramp between open and locked would have fixed the understeer as well.
Camber
Depends on what wheel/tire I was running (sidewall).
When I ran 225/50-16 or 245/45-26 the TII was fastest on -5 degrees up front.
When I ran 235/40-17 it was really picky on camber, -2 to -3 degrees depending...
When I ran 255/40-17 it did fine anywhere -2 to -3 degrees, not so picky
Rear- always as little as I could run (-1.5 to -2)
That toe out sounds scary as F*&$ under braking...
03-23-16, 10:57 AM
#77
https://www.rx7club.com/suspension-w.../#post11726575
I'm running 900/600 lbs/in springs, so it's stiff, but not really all that bad because the dampers and valved for it. I still drive it to and from events completely fine.
03-23-16, 11:52 AM
#78
MECP Certified Installer
RockLobster
My car probably does not have enough power to manifest this power on understeer everyone is talking about. But it will oversteer some coming out of corners.
We seem to run WAY more neg camber than everyone else too. My current baseline setup is like 4.2deg neg in the front ant 1.8neg in the rear. No rear bar. Stock front bar. It definetly lifts the front tire but i don't get any understeer at all.
It turns in like a monster but we run quite a bit of toe out. About 3/16".
Every time we hook up the rear bar it wont put power down and just skates everywhere.
Well, I found understeer can happen for many reasons.
Back when I had the stock S4 clutch type rear end and a laggier stock hybrid my TII would understeer off the apex of 15-25mph turns if I was trying to pull out in 2nd where I didn't have enough torque to break the rear loose.
It was the clutch type rear locking that caused this understeer, it went away when I put the FD torsen rear in. A proper clutch type with a lot of ramp between open and locked would have fixed the understeer as well.
Camber
Depends on what wheel/tire I was running (sidewall).
When I ran 225/50-16 or 245/45-26 the TII was fastest on -5 degrees up front.
When I ran 235/40-17 it was really picky on camber, -2 to -3 degrees depending...
When I ran 255/40-17 it did fine anywhere -2 to -3 degrees, not so picky
Rear- always as little as I could run (-1.5 to -2)
That toe out sounds scary as F*&$ under braking...
Gotta use the brakes, grab the steering wheel for dear life!
03-23-16, 12:21 PM
#79
My car probably does not have enough power to manifest this power on understeer everyone is talking about. But it will oversteer some coming out of corners.
We seem to run WAY more neg camber than everyone else too. My current baseline setup is like 4.2deg neg in the front ant 1.8neg in the rear. No rear bar. Stock front bar. It definetly lifts the front tire but i don't get any understeer at all. Having some rake in the car helps too i think.
It turns in like a monster but we run quite a bit of toe out. About 3/16".
Every time we hook up the rear bar it wont put power down and just skates everywhere.
We seem to run WAY more neg camber than everyone else too. My current baseline setup is like 4.2deg neg in the front ant 1.8neg in the rear. No rear bar. Stock front bar. It definetly lifts the front tire but i don't get any understeer at all. Having some rake in the car helps too i think.
It turns in like a monster but we run quite a bit of toe out. About 3/16".
Every time we hook up the rear bar it wont put power down and just skates everywhere.
Last edited by LargeOrangeFont; 03-23-16 at 12:26 PM.
03-23-16, 12:28 PM
#80
MECP Certified Installer
Ya'll are probably going to skewer me for saying this but...
The stock springs on my vert are worn out, but man are they hard as hell. As they have sagged the spring rate feels like it has gone up tremendously. The car is also naturally a tad bit lower than stock. Like I said, call me crazy and skewer me, but worn out super hard vert springs with new struts feels good as a daily.
Edit: I actually want to add that I can go around corners much faster than before when I bought the car 7 years ago. I don't know if it is because the springs sagged and got harder or if the slight lowering because of that made a better center of gravity.
The stock springs on my vert are worn out, but man are they hard as hell. As they have sagged the spring rate feels like it has gone up tremendously. The car is also naturally a tad bit lower than stock. Like I said, call me crazy and skewer me, but worn out super hard vert springs with new struts feels good as a daily.
Edit: I actually want to add that I can go around corners much faster than before when I bought the car 7 years ago. I don't know if it is because the springs sagged and got harder or if the slight lowering because of that made a better center of gravity.
Last edited by jjwalker; 03-23-16 at 12:31 PM.
03-23-16, 12:29 PM
#81
My car probably does not have enough power to manifest this power on understeer everyone is talking about. But it will oversteer some coming out of corners.
We seem to run WAY more neg camber than everyone else too. My current baseline setup is like 4.2deg neg in the front ant 1.8neg in the rear. No rear bar. Stock front bar. It definetly lifts the front tire but i don't get any understeer at all. Having some rake in the car helps too i think.
It turns in like a monster but we run quite a bit of toe out. About 3/16".
Every time we hook up the rear bar it wont put power down and just skates everywhere.
We seem to run WAY more neg camber than everyone else too. My current baseline setup is like 4.2deg neg in the front ant 1.8neg in the rear. No rear bar. Stock front bar. It definetly lifts the front tire but i don't get any understeer at all. Having some rake in the car helps too i think.
It turns in like a monster but we run quite a bit of toe out. About 3/16".
Every time we hook up the rear bar it wont put power down and just skates everywhere.
03-23-16, 12:30 PM
#82
Ya'll are probably going to skewer me for saying this but...
The stock springs on my vert are worn out, but man are they hard as hell. As they have sagged the spring rate feels like it has gone up tremendously. The car is also naturally a tad bit lower than stock. Like I said, call me crazy and skewer me, but worn out super hard vert springs with new struts feels good as a daily.
The stock springs on my vert are worn out, but man are they hard as hell. As they have sagged the spring rate feels like it has gone up tremendously. The car is also naturally a tad bit lower than stock. Like I said, call me crazy and skewer me, but worn out super hard vert springs with new struts feels good as a daily.
03-23-16, 12:31 PM
#83
Ya'll are probably going to skewer me for saying this but...
The stock springs on my vert are worn out, but man are they hard as hell. As they have sagged the spring rate feels like it has gone up tremendously. The car is also naturally a tad bit lower than stock. Like I said, call me crazy and skewer me, but worn out super hard vert springs with new struts feels good as a daily.
The stock springs on my vert are worn out, but man are they hard as hell. As they have sagged the spring rate feels like it has gone up tremendously. The car is also naturally a tad bit lower than stock. Like I said, call me crazy and skewer me, but worn out super hard vert springs with new struts feels good as a daily.
03-23-16, 12:39 PM
#84
MECP Certified Installer
Haha, I am not sitting on my bump stops!
I did hit my bump stops once in an accident avoidance situation. Some moron was on the phone not paying attention and was speeding and about to rear end me ( luckily I just happened to look in my rear view mirror) and so I abruptly turned into a shopping center easement at 40+ mph. Bad part was that the easement was like 30* incline upward and so I went airborn over the top. When I landed I heard a loud BANG!!! Looked under the car and saw nothing out of the ordinary. The loud BANG noise was my seat rails breaking from the impact. I had to weld the seat rail legs back together on the back of the seat. Both seat rail legs where they bolt to the floor broke.
Scary!
I did hit my bump stops once in an accident avoidance situation. Some moron was on the phone not paying attention and was speeding and about to rear end me ( luckily I just happened to look in my rear view mirror) and so I abruptly turned into a shopping center easement at 40+ mph. Bad part was that the easement was like 30* incline upward and so I went airborn over the top. When I landed I heard a loud BANG!!! Looked under the car and saw nothing out of the ordinary. The loud BANG noise was my seat rails breaking from the impact. I had to weld the seat rail legs back together on the back of the seat. Both seat rail legs where they bolt to the floor broke.
Scary!
03-23-16, 03:05 PM
#85
RockLobster
It was the clutch type rear locking that caused this understeer, it went away when I put the FD torsen rear in. A proper clutch type with a lot of ramp between open and locked would have fixed the understeer as well.
That toe out sounds scary as F*&$ under braking...
It was the clutch type rear locking that caused this understeer, it went away when I put the FD torsen rear in. A proper clutch type with a lot of ramp between open and locked would have fixed the understeer as well.
That toe out sounds scary as F*&$ under braking...
The toe out is more Ben's (buddy and main driver) style. He loves it. I can handle it (sort of) and when you turn in, it will get you to the apex with out a problem
I suspect drivers that like stability would not like it so much. That's interesting on the sidewall...i never really linked that with camber. Different tires required different camber based on grip and if they had a very square profile or were rounded somewhat. We run 205/50-15 Spec Miata Tires and it seems to work great with lots of camber. But even when i switch over to a 225/40-17 it still likes lots of camber. These are all hoosiers. My thoughts followed the same as LOF, stock bar, car is rolling more thus needs lots o camber.
We run some toe in in the rear as well. It changes constantly with the rear trailing arm mess on poly bushings, and i have to reset it every weekend. I'd run sphericals but it would cost me too many points in PT.
Last edited by RockLobster; 03-23-16 at 03:15 PM.
03-23-16, 10:36 PM
#86
I believe it. Both my FCs have torsens. FD in the TII and Miata type 2 in the racecar. I love them. Super progressive and easy to drive, but no wheelspin unless you launch off curbs.
The toe out is more Ben's (buddy and main driver) style. He loves it. I can handle it (sort of) and when you turn in, it will get you to the apex with out a problem I suspect drivers that like stability would not like it so much.
That's interesting on the sidewall...i never really linked that with camber. Different tires required different camber based on grip and if they had a very square profile or were rounded somewhat. We run 205/50-15 Spec Miata Tires and it seems to work great with lots of camber. But even when i switch over to a 225/40-17 it still likes lots of camber. These are all hoosiers. My thoughts followed the same as LOF, stock bar, car is rolling more thus needs lots o camber.
We run some toe in in the rear as well. It changes constantly with the rear trailing arm mess on poly bushings, and i have to reset it every weekend. I'd run sphericals but it would cost me too many points in PT.
The toe out is more Ben's (buddy and main driver) style. He loves it. I can handle it (sort of) and when you turn in, it will get you to the apex with out a problem
I suspect drivers that like stability would not like it so much. That's interesting on the sidewall...i never really linked that with camber. Different tires required different camber based on grip and if they had a very square profile or were rounded somewhat. We run 205/50-15 Spec Miata Tires and it seems to work great with lots of camber. But even when i switch over to a 225/40-17 it still likes lots of camber. These are all hoosiers. My thoughts followed the same as LOF, stock bar, car is rolling more thus needs lots o camber.
We run some toe in in the rear as well. It changes constantly with the rear trailing arm mess on poly bushings, and i have to reset it every weekend. I'd run sphericals but it would cost me too many points in PT.
The Maxxis tires I run now are wearing slightly unevenly compared to the NT01s I ran before. I am going to try a bit less front camber and see if it evens back out on the next set of tires.
I pity you having to run the poly bushings in the back, what a mess!
I tried running almost that much toe out in front once. I felt I was loosing some steering on corner exit. That was also when I was running less toe in out back. Maybe I should give it a try again with the increased rear toe I run now. The care really cuts with that much toe out though!
I gotta say this is a pretty good discussion we have going here.
Last edited by LargeOrangeFont; 03-23-16 at 10:43 PM.
03-23-16, 11:58 PM
#87
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we should do it for the race car too, but that thing is ridiculous, the only weight reduction is taking out Alice's seat, and the carpet, everything else is added on stuff, its even got 3 ecus, and a backup camera. you know, because the miata is simpler.
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