Good suspension parts availability for FC?
03-22-16, 02:51 PM
#51
RockLobster
The best handling tip i can give to FC guys for track use is to disconnect the rear sway bar. A big front bar helps too.
Yeah, I did the no rear sway bar with 8/6 springs.
The only weird result is you get power on understeer coming out of the corners where the front inside tire hikes off the ground.
It works pretty well since that is the natural racing line, but it is weird to have a high power RWD car driving like a FWD car to me (my FC was ~48/52 rear weight bias which probably exaggerated this).
At least you still have some steering feel to help moderate the understeer unlike a FWD car where you just kinda judge your progress toward the wall and adjust throttle accordingly.
Probably needed more rear spring since it was squatting like leg day on throttle with 420ftlbs rotary torque.
The best handling tip i can give to FC guys for track use is to disconnect the rear sway bar. A big front bar helps too.
Yeah, I did the no rear sway bar with 8/6 springs.
The only weird result is you get power on understeer coming out of the corners where the front inside tire hikes off the ground.
It works pretty well since that is the natural racing line, but it is weird to have a high power RWD car driving like a FWD car to me (my FC was ~48/52 rear weight bias which probably exaggerated this).
At least you still have some steering feel to help moderate the understeer unlike a FWD car where you just kinda judge your progress toward the wall and adjust throttle accordingly.
Probably needed more rear spring since it was squatting like leg day on throttle with 420ftlbs rotary torque.
03-22-16, 02:55 PM
#52
RockLobster
The best handling tip i can give to FC guys for track use is to disconnect the rear sway bar. A big front bar helps too.
Yeah, I did the no rear sway bar with 8/6 springs.
The only weird result is you get power on understeer coming out of the corners where the front inside tire hikes off the ground.
It works pretty well since that is the natural racing line, but it is weird to have a high power RWD car driving like a FWD car to me (my FC was ~48/52 rear weight bias which probably exaggerated this).
At least you still have some steering feel to help moderate the understeer unlike a FWD car where you just kinda judge your progress toward the wall and adjust throttle accordingly.
Probably needed more rear spring since it was squatting like leg day on throttle with 420ftlbs rotary torque.
The best handling tip i can give to FC guys for track use is to disconnect the rear sway bar. A big front bar helps too.
Yeah, I did the no rear sway bar with 8/6 springs.
The only weird result is you get power on understeer coming out of the corners where the front inside tire hikes off the ground.
It works pretty well since that is the natural racing line, but it is weird to have a high power RWD car driving like a FWD car to me (my FC was ~48/52 rear weight bias which probably exaggerated this).
At least you still have some steering feel to help moderate the understeer unlike a FWD car where you just kinda judge your progress toward the wall and adjust throttle accordingly.
Probably needed more rear spring since it was squatting like leg day on throttle with 420ftlbs rotary torque.
03-22-16, 03:05 PM
#53
Would be nice to have a thread for us 3 people on earth trying to build competitive FCs to share our setups.
For me I would be building a mild race build, with good streetability. That means no crazy aero or even overfenders. I wonder how competitive such a car would be.
For me I would be building a mild race build, with good streetability. That means no crazy aero or even overfenders. I wonder how competitive such a car would be.
03-22-16, 03:31 PM
#54
My car has raced for two years on the GC setup with the race-grade Koni dampers. Two NASA national championships to show for it. So, i'd say they are decent. 
If i recall correctly the springs are 400lb fronts and 275 rears.
The shocks are double adjustable in the front and single in the rear.
The performance is fantastic.
The best handling tip i can give to FC guys for track use is to disconnect the rear sway bar. A big front bar helps too.
If i recall correctly the springs are 400lb fronts and 275 rears.
The shocks are double adjustable in the front and single in the rear.
The performance is fantastic.
The best handling tip i can give to FC guys for track use is to disconnect the rear sway bar. A big front bar helps too.
I'm at 700/400 right now, with an RB front bar. I have a sneaking suspicion I need to go a little softer in back still.
Last edited by LargeOrangeFont; 03-22-16 at 03:37 PM.
03-22-16, 03:36 PM
#55
Yeah, I did the no rear sway bar with 8/6 springs.
The only weird result is you get power on understeer coming out of the corners where the front inside tire hikes off the ground.
It works pretty well since that is the natural racing line, but it is weird to have a high power RWD car driving like a FWD car to me (my FC was ~48/52 rear weight bias which probably exaggerated this).
At least you still have some steering feel to help moderate the understeer unlike a FWD car where you just kinda judge your progress toward the wall and adjust throttle accordingly.
Probably needed more rear spring since it was squatting like leg day on throttle with 420ftlbs rotary torque.
The only weird result is you get power on understeer coming out of the corners where the front inside tire hikes off the ground.
It works pretty well since that is the natural racing line, but it is weird to have a high power RWD car driving like a FWD car to me (my FC was ~48/52 rear weight bias which probably exaggerated this).
At least you still have some steering feel to help moderate the understeer unlike a FWD car where you just kinda judge your progress toward the wall and adjust throttle accordingly.
Probably needed more rear spring since it was squatting like leg day on throttle with 420ftlbs rotary torque.
03-22-16, 03:42 PM
#56
When I was running 500 lb/in rear springs the car was good on smooth pavement, and it was really free on corner entry, the car would cut awesome. But any bumps upset the car at speed if I was on power. The car would jump sideways at 90 mph on a couple bumpy corner exits. Dropping the rear spring rate settled it down a ton and a gained a lot of consistency. I need to get my rear struts revalved to better match a 350-400 spring now.
03-22-16, 04:02 PM
#57
17x9 wheels (square)
255/40/17s extreme summer tires
GC konis w/ 400/275 lbs/in springs (mazda comp recommended springs) w/ camber plates (-3* front camber)
ronnin rear camber links (-1.5* rear camber)
big front sway bar
When I was running 500 lb/in rear springs the car was good on smooth pavement, and it was really free on corner entry, the car would cut awesome. But any bumps upset the car at speed if I was on power. The car would jump sideways at 90 mph on a couple bumpy corner exits. Dropping the rear spring rate settled it down a ton and a gained a lot of consistency. I need to get my rear struts revalved to better match a 350-400 spring now.
03-22-16, 04:06 PM
#58
There are a couple other guys that are running open track with 600+ lb rear springs and don't seem to have the issues I do. But they have aero, Ronin fenders and more tire. Their tracks are also pretty smooth, where most tracks in So Cal are old and can be pretty bumpy in some sections.
Then there are guys that look at us like we are crazy for running rear springs over 325 lbs/in.
Last edited by LargeOrangeFont; 03-22-16 at 04:11 PM.
03-22-16, 04:16 PM
#59
+1, I have a pretty extreme setup I wouldn't really recommend to most. in reality this setup will be pretty awesome all around:
17x9 wheels (square)
255/40/17s extreme summer tires
GC konis w/ 400/275 lbs/in springs (mazda comp recommended springs) w/ camber plates (-3* front camber)
ronnin rear camber links (-1.5* rear camber)
big front sway bar
17x9 wheels (square)
255/40/17s extreme summer tires
GC konis w/ 400/275 lbs/in springs (mazda comp recommended springs) w/ camber plates (-3* front camber)
ronnin rear camber links (-1.5* rear camber)
big front sway bar
As you add more power, you will need better brakes, 100 treadwear tires, and something to stiffen the front end further, be it more spring, or a speedway style sway bar.
Last edited by LargeOrangeFont; 03-22-16 at 04:19 PM.
03-22-16, 04:26 PM
#60
My car had on power understeer with the rotary, it went away with the v8.
Yeah, I bet my TII would have handled more like I want with another 100-150lbs on the front wheels.
I did not like the light front end. It was really sketchy on surfaces with poor steering feedback (like longitudinally grooved pavement).
Yeah, I bet my TII would have handled more like I want with another 100-150lbs on the front wheels.
I did not like the light front end. It was really sketchy on surfaces with poor steering feedback (like longitudinally grooved pavement).
03-22-16, 04:46 PM
#61
My car had on power understeer with the rotary, it went away with the v8.
Yeah, I bet my TII would have handled more like I want with another 100-150lbs on the front wheels.
I did not like the light front end. It was really sketchy on surfaces with poor steering feedback (like longitudinally grooved pavement).
Yeah, I bet my TII would have handled more like I want with another 100-150lbs on the front wheels.
I did not like the light front end. It was really sketchy on surfaces with poor steering feedback (like longitudinally grooved pavement).
The on power understeer actually came back when I went to the 275 tires all around. It took a couple events to get it dialed back in. I have video and GPS data before and after and it is pretty dramatic. There were a couple corners I had to enter 15 mph slower to get the car to turn, and when I'd get back to the gas and the front would just plow out. Now the car pivots on the inner front and cuts to the inside when I get back to the throttle (If I don't overdo it
).With the 255s the car was similar, but would 4 wheel drift if I gave it much throttle in a turn. The 275s give me more headroom before that happens.
Last edited by LargeOrangeFont; 03-22-16 at 04:50 PM.
03-22-16, 05:18 PM
#62
Yup, comes out to ~100lbs since my FC was 2,700lbs with me in it and 48/52 and your FC is 2,700lbs with you in it and 52/48.
1300lbs front/1400lbs rear = 48/52
1400lbs front/1300lbs rear= 52/48
Makes sense I didn't like it.
You can't take a 2,700lb TII (no driver) with "perfect balance" stock and make it 2,500lbs by taking 150lbs out of the front/center of the car and only 50lbs out of the rear and expect it to be "perfect balance" anymore.
But that is where the weight came out with the mods allowed in the mild street class (SSM).
1300lbs front/1400lbs rear = 48/52
1400lbs front/1300lbs rear= 52/48
Makes sense I didn't like it.
You can't take a 2,700lb TII (no driver) with "perfect balance" stock and make it 2,500lbs by taking 150lbs out of the front/center of the car and only 50lbs out of the rear and expect it to be "perfect balance" anymore.
But that is where the weight came out with the mods allowed in the mild street class (SSM).
03-22-16, 05:27 PM
#63
Totally.. Many people don't seem to get that where you pull weight from matters. In cars this light, 25 lbs is almost 1%! I also have about 20 lbs more weight in the front from my larger front brakes.
When I pull the sunroof, that will keep it about even, but if I put a lexan hatch on the car, there goes another 1% to the front. All the v8 haters will rejoice and the "I told you it ruined the balance!!" will start up again.
When I pull the sunroof, that will keep it about even, but if I put a lexan hatch on the car, there goes another 1% to the front.
All the v8 haters will rejoice and the "I told you it ruined the balance!!" will start up again.
Last edited by LargeOrangeFont; 03-22-16 at 05:31 PM.
03-22-16, 05:32 PM
#64
This GC Koni setup everyone is talking about, is it just this?
Ground Control - 86-92 RX-7 Super Street Kit
Those are the only GC Koni coilovers for the FC that I know of - only problem is that they appear to be single-adjustable. Any thoughts?
BTW, I'm flying to Chicago to pick up my 87' Sport tomorrow. Should be interesting.
Ground Control - 86-92 RX-7 Super Street Kit
Those are the only GC Koni coilovers for the FC that I know of - only problem is that they appear to be single-adjustable. Any thoughts?
BTW, I'm flying to Chicago to pick up my 87' Sport tomorrow. Should be interesting.
03-23-16, 07:13 AM
#66
+1, I have a pretty extreme setup I wouldn't really recommend to most. in reality this setup will be pretty awesome all around:
17x9 wheels (square)
255/40/17s extreme summer tires
GC konis w/ 400/275 lbs/in springs (mazda comp recommended springs) w/ camber plates (-3* front camber)
ronnin rear camber links (-1.5* rear camber)
big front sway bar
17x9 wheels (square)
255/40/17s extreme summer tires
GC konis w/ 400/275 lbs/in springs (mazda comp recommended springs) w/ camber plates (-3* front camber)
ronnin rear camber links (-1.5* rear camber)
big front sway bar
I have a pretty similar setup but with 17x9 square and 225/245 Pilot SS. I still need to remove the rear sway bar, but I think the car would drive a lot better with more front tire.
03-23-16, 08:11 AM
#67
+1, I have a pretty extreme setup I wouldn't really recommend to most. in reality this setup will be pretty awesome all around:
17x9 wheels (square)
255/40/17s extreme summer tires
GC konis w/ 400/275 lbs/in springs (mazda comp recommended springs) w/ camber plates (-3* front camber)
ronnin rear camber links (-1.5* rear camber)
big front sway bar
I think this is just the difference between track and autocross setups. The car needs to be a lot looser for autocross and I don't have to deal with 90 mph turns
17x9 wheels (square)
255/40/17s extreme summer tires
GC konis w/ 400/275 lbs/in springs (mazda comp recommended springs) w/ camber plates (-3* front camber)
ronnin rear camber links (-1.5* rear camber)
big front sway bar
I think this is just the difference between track and autocross setups. The car needs to be a lot looser for autocross and I don't have to deal with 90 mph turns
Couple of dummy questions coming up!
What do you mean by "square" on the wheel setup? On all 4 corners?
Would you say that your 3000gt bilstein insert front setup is a better choice than the GC Konis?
Thanks for all of the good info guys, love to hear real life experience from racers and enthusiasts
03-23-16, 08:55 AM
#68
This GC Koni setup everyone is talking about, is it just this?
Ground Control - 86-92 RX-7 Super Street Kit
Those are the only GC Koni coilovers for the FC that I know of - only problem is that they appear to be single-adjustable. Any thoughts?
BTW, I'm flying to Chicago to pick up my 87' Sport tomorrow. Should be interesting.
Ground Control - 86-92 RX-7 Super Street Kit
Those are the only GC Koni coilovers for the FC that I know of - only problem is that they appear to be single-adjustable. Any thoughts?
BTW, I'm flying to Chicago to pick up my 87' Sport tomorrow. Should be interesting.
http://www.koniracing.com/8611.cfm
you can also get adjusters added to the rears by a koni revalving shop if you really wanted to... I used to have a set of tri-point made konis that had double adjustable rear konis. (not made anymore)
Were you able to fit a 255 under stock front fenders with just rolling, or wider fiberglass?
I have a pretty similar setup but with 17x9 square and 225/245 Pilot SS. I still need to remove the rear sway bar, but I think the car would drive a lot better with more front tire.
I have a pretty similar setup but with 17x9 square and 225/245 Pilot SS. I still need to remove the rear sway bar, but I think the car would drive a lot better with more front tire.
Couple of dummy questions coming up!
What do you mean by "square" on the wheel setup? On all 4 corners?
Would you say that your 3000gt bilstein insert front setup is a better choice than the GC Konis?
Thanks for all of the good info guys, love to hear real life experience from racers and enthusiasts
What do you mean by "square" on the wheel setup? On all 4 corners?
Would you say that your 3000gt bilstein insert front setup is a better choice than the GC Konis?
Thanks for all of the good info guys, love to hear real life experience from racers and enthusiasts
the 3kgt bilsteins have trade-offs... they're harder to make since you have to make housings, and they're not adjustable. but they're already valved pretty well for higher spring rates and they'll be more reliable than a koni.
that being said I'm not longer running those. I now have a set of bilstein 50mm universal motorsport struts:
Universal Motorsports Strut
03-23-16, 09:48 AM
#69
Were you able to fit a 255 under stock front fenders with just rolling, or wider fiberglass?
I have a pretty similar setup but with 17x9 square and 225/245 Pilot SS. I still need to remove the rear sway bar, but I think the car would drive a lot better with more front tire.
I have a pretty similar setup but with 17x9 square and 225/245 Pilot SS. I still need to remove the rear sway bar, but I think the car would drive a lot better with more front tire.
It would have been beget if I went with a +30 or somewhere around there.
With my shine front fenders and modified rears, im pretty sure I can fit 17x9.5 , and maybe 17x10, but it would require quite a bit camber
03-23-16, 09:51 AM
#70
that being said I'm not longer running those. I now have a set of bilstein 50mm universal motorsport struts:
Universal Motorsports Strut
How are these non adjustable shocks when driven on the street?
03-23-16, 10:15 AM
#71
This GC Koni setup everyone is talking about, is it just this?
Ground Control - 86-92 RX-7 Super Street Kit
Those are the only GC Koni coilovers for the FC that I know of - only problem is that they appear to be single-adjustable. Any thoughts?
BTW, I'm flying to Chicago to pick up my 87' Sport tomorrow. Should be interesting.
Ground Control - 86-92 RX-7 Super Street Kit
Those are the only GC Koni coilovers for the FC that I know of - only problem is that they appear to be single-adjustable. Any thoughts?
BTW, I'm flying to Chicago to pick up my 87' Sport tomorrow. Should be interesting.
You gotta cut the shock towers to get enough camber and caster.
Last edited by RockLobster; 03-23-16 at 10:17 AM.
03-23-16, 10:21 AM
#72
yes, square = all for corners are the same.
the 3kgt bilsteins have trade-offs... they're harder to make since you have to make housings, and they're not adjustable. but they're already valved pretty well for higher spring rates and they'll be more reliable than a koni.
that being said I'm not longer running those. I now have a set of bilstein 50mm universal motorsport struts:
Universal Motorsports Strut
the 3kgt bilsteins have trade-offs... they're harder to make since you have to make housings, and they're not adjustable. but they're already valved pretty well for higher spring rates and they'll be more reliable than a koni.
that being said I'm not longer running those. I now have a set of bilstein 50mm universal motorsport struts:
Universal Motorsports Strut
03-23-16, 10:22 AM
#73
My car probably does not have enough power to manifest this power on understeer everyone is talking about. But it will oversteer some coming out of corners.
We seem to run WAY more neg camber than everyone else too. My current baseline setup is like 4.2deg neg in the front ant 1.8neg in the rear. No rear bar. Stock front bar. It definetly lifts the front tire but i don't get any understeer at all. Having some rake in the car helps too i think.
It turns in like a monster but we run quite a bit of toe out. About 3/16".
Every time we hook up the rear bar it wont put power down and just skates everywhere.
We seem to run WAY more neg camber than everyone else too. My current baseline setup is like 4.2deg neg in the front ant 1.8neg in the rear. No rear bar. Stock front bar. It definetly lifts the front tire but i don't get any understeer at all. Having some rake in the car helps too i think.
It turns in like a monster but we run quite a bit of toe out. About 3/16".
Every time we hook up the rear bar it wont put power down and just skates everywhere.
Last edited by RockLobster; 03-23-16 at 10:42 AM.
03-23-16, 10:26 AM
#74
Totally.. Many people don't seem to get that where you pull weight from matters. In cars this light, 25 lbs is almost 1%! I also have about 20 lbs more weight in the front from my larger front brakes.
When I pull the sunroof, that will keep it about even, but if I put a lexan hatch on the car, there goes another 1% to the front. All the v8 haters will rejoice and the "I told you it ruined the balance!!" will start up again.
When I pull the sunroof, that will keep it about even, but if I put a lexan hatch on the car, there goes another 1% to the front.
All the v8 haters will rejoice and the "I told you it ruined the balance!!" will start up again.We actually have to ballast my car up to the comp weight with driver of 2800 lbs. But it allows us to perfectly balance the weight and with a full tank of fuel its at 48/52 and perfect cross weight EVEN weight side to side with a 200lb driver. Near the end of a fuel load it actually goes back to pretty close to 50/50
Last edited by RockLobster; 03-23-16 at 10:42 AM.
03-23-16, 10:33 AM
#75
Completely agree. You need to be setup really free to get the car to rotate well for what you are doing.
There are a couple other guys that are running open track with 600+ lb rear springs and don't seem to have the issues I do. But they have aero, Ronin fenders and more tire. Their tracks are also pretty smooth, where most tracks in So Cal are old and can be pretty bumpy in some sections.
Then there are guys that look at us like we are crazy for running rear springs over 325 lbs/in.
There are a couple other guys that are running open track with 600+ lb rear springs and don't seem to have the issues I do. But they have aero, Ronin fenders and more tire. Their tracks are also pretty smooth, where most tracks in So Cal are old and can be pretty bumpy in some sections.
Then there are guys that look at us like we are crazy for running rear springs over 325 lbs/in.
Autocross car has to rotate a lot more readily id suspect. Ive found on low speed corners we just increase the rear tire pressure which frees the car up enough while not really affecting the high speed because even the dumb stock spoiler pushes the rear down enough to even out the handling between low and high speed corners.