so i am trying to get my car completely road worthy and i need an alignment...i have talked to a couple places and they say they can just put my car to stock specs...i am running stock s5 t2 wheels and stock tire sizes but i also have...

- tein flex coil overs
- new ball joints to be put on
- new tie rod ends to be put on
- RB adjustable subframe link
- RB sway bars w/ adjustable end links

i would like to drop the car down a couple inches but i need the specs or whatever to give the place doing the alignment...(camber, caster, toe) but i don't know what they would be with the car at non stock height...hoping i can get some help or more info from you guys

can i just have them lower it and then zero everything out? i'm kinda a newb at this unfortunately.

 

zero'ing everything is just about all they can do for now. you'll just have to drive it after they're done and report any pulls, drifts, dogtracking, ect when you come back

 

The shop should have a book of alignment specs for nearly every car ever made.

 

yea but he needs specs of a lowered vehicle not of stock height and no shops have that....i know its a PITA to get an alignment done with aftermarket suspension mods. no shop in town would even touch my lowered EF hatch. i had to take it to a local guy who does nothing but honda mods out of his garage haha

 

Alignment is just angles of wheels to the road.

Regardless of height, a street car can run stock specs, but to take advantage of the new suspension bits, alignment specs have be researched.

I research all of my specs regardless of height, even on stock springs, my alignment differs from stock since I autocross the car. I try to crank out as much camber and caster as I can from the suspension, while keeping the toe relatively straight.

 

If you are a newb at it you probably just drive your car on the street, so you don't need anything really agressive.

Having the 0 everything out woudl be a waste.

The following woudl be good on the street, and give you good tire wear.

-.5 degree front camber
0 front toe, or 1/16" in
Caster is non adjustable.

-.5 to -.75 degree rear camber
1/16" toe in.

That should do it.

 

factory specs are stored in the VID (vehicle identification database) on the alignment rack's computer

that's pretty neat. but do you know why you're asking for that kind of set up?

almost looks like factory spec with OEM parts

 

the car will primarily be driven on the street...i was thinking castor and toe to be factory specs with -1 degree of camber in the front and -2 in that back. i would think that should be sufficient?

 

With -1 degree of camber in front you will see some extra wear on the insides of the front tires if you do a lot of highway driving or dont charger the corners.

-2 in the back might be a little much too.

 

For me, maxing out the camber in the stock suspension helps with aggressive cornering, though the stock suspension doesn't really lend itself to much camber. I've had to use camber bolts to get a little more, and even then I think it's still too little. Besides adjusting with camber bolts, the only other way to adjust is to rotate the strut mount for a slight bit of camber. Maxed out, I have about -1.3 degrees of camber on each wheel in the front. I still think that's way too little, even for street driving. I end up wearing the outside of my tire much faster than the inside of it with all the hard turning that I do, since on the stock suspension, the tire rolls over in the corner.

If he has Tein Flex, I'm assuming they came with camber plates. If not, then he's screwed on camber and caster. At least with the camber plates, he can adjust camber to a decent setting. To be honest, as a compromise, I would go with -2.0 degrees of camber in the front. You won't wear the tires much faster than stock, since toe is the major contributor in tire wear.

Rear Camber should be set somewhere between -1.0 and -1.5 degrees. The rear tires do not roll over nearly as much as the fronts do when turning hard. With a front setting of -2.0, I would use a rear setting of -1.0. If the back is still too loose when applying power at the corner exit, I would add some negative camber to the rear until I though the car became too prone to understeer, but -1.0, IMHO, is a good starting point for the rear.

Caster is not adjustable, so we won't discuss that for his setup.

Front Toe should be set primarily based on the intended usage of the car, and second, the speeds he'll see driving the car. For example, I actually ran my car with toe-out to compensate somewhat for the limited camber. I had to find some way of getting the car to turn-in better and was willing to sacrifice straight line stability. Most people wouldn't recommend driving with toe-out, but I was only making 161 whp and even on the longest straightaway that I encountered, I probably was only redlining third, which is about 100-110 for my GTUs. I wouldn't say the car was ever uncontrollable with the slight toe-out setting.

That being said, if the primary usage isn't autocross and track usage, I would still opt for a slight toe-in setting for the front. Either 1/16th inch total (meaning 1/32 in on each wheel). To find the corresponding toe angles, use an internet calculator.

Rear toe depends on if you have DTSS or not, and if your DTSS is working. If you do have working DTSS (which is a rarity), set your toe at 0. If your DTSS is worn beyond belief, buy some RB/Mazdatrix/Whatever brand DTSS Eliminators and set your toe in the back at 1/8 inch total (1/16 inch at each wheel)

 

here are the coilovers i have...i have the stock dtss bushings right now but i have an extra set of hubs with the eliminator bushings already pressed in that will be installed once it warms up.

 

You should be able to change camber settings by changing the position of the strut relative to its mounting plates. Looks like your front struts have 4 different camber settings.

 

The struts do not have 4 different settings. The holes are to rearrange the adjuster bolts if needed to gain more negative (or positive) camber.

My alignment settings I liised above are what you will want to run. If you plan to do a lot of agressive cornering, you will want more negative camber than I perscribed.

On my track car I run:

Front:
1/16 toe out
-2 degrees camber

Rear:
1/16 toe in
-1.75 degrees rear camber.

87 t-66,

Are you installing all the parts or having a shop do it? If you are doing it there are some measurments youll want to take, and some setup considerations regarding shock droop length and end link adjustments so you aren't preloading the swaybars.

 

sounds good, thanks.

 

I just did a bunch of suspension work on my car. It's primarily ran on the street as well. All I plan on doing is setting my front and rear toe to factory spec, and I plan on maxing out my camber at all four wheels as negative as the factory spec will allow. That will give you a really nice handling street car that will stick in the corners, and it WON'T prematurally wear tires. That's the key. You can go as radical as you want with your specs, but if you don't want to be putting tires on it every year I suggest keeping it within the factory tolerances. If I remember right, there's alot of room to play with the factory specs. Mazda gave them a pretty wide tolerance.

 

What range do you define as a lot of room? I never found much adjustment with the factory strut mounts and camber bolts.

 

I agree. There is about none. I tried camber bolts and got almost nothing out of them because the spindle hit the strut as I started to dial in negative camber.

 

i installed the sway bars, the shop is doing the ball joints and tie rod ends.

what is the purpose behind having toe out on the front and toe in on the rear?

 

Its pointless to have toe out on the rear, since it has to do alot with the steering feel. A lil toe in on the rear will help with directional stability, even if the front is out a bit.

For a street car, I'd have the shop get as much negative camber out of the rear as they can (which wont be much) and set my front even or maybe a degree more than whatever the rear is at (barring an extreme case like -4+ degrees). I'd go zero or -1/16th toe in up front and -1/16th in back.

For the record: I'm at -3 deg camber and 0 toe up front and -2 and -1/16th in the rear. Mainly auto-x setup. My V710s love the camber, street tires... not so much. Definitely thinking about doing some toe out next time I get it aligned.

 

i can tell you right now i can get a lot of camber out of the rear. i have some crazy rear camber going on right now because the RB link hasen't been adjusted.

also, the car will be driven on the street, with street tires, 95% of the time. and again, i am using stock wheel and tire sizes (for right now)

 

You will probably need individual adjusters for the rear to get the camber even.

 

Find a shop that uses an alignment machine that takes readings from ride height.

 

By alot of room I ment the factory spec has a wide range to play in before you go out of spec. A quick trick to get more camber out of the front struts is to slot the top hole of the strut where it bolts to the spindle. Use a die grinder and a carbide burring bit and just start elongating the hole untill you get your desired camber. You can't grind too much though to the point where the strut doesn't have enough metal left to be safe, but you can usually get a fair amount of change that way. With those coilovers though this would be pointless, they have the camber plates on the top.

 

Here's what I'd start with on a daily driven street car. It'll handle well and tire wear won't be too bad.

Front
-1.5 degrees negative camber
1/16" toe in

Rear
-1.0 degrees negative camber
1/16" toe in

If you want to be more aggressive, you can add another -.5 degree camber front and rear and go with 0 toe in the front.

 

I disagree with the get as much out of the rear as possible advice, given that 1. he has coilovers which will lower his car, and by extension, increase the rear negative camber and 2. he has and unadjusted RB center camber link adjuster.

With that setup, maxing out the rear camber could easily put him at -3.0 degrees in the rear! Way too much camber.

With the center adjuster, you may find that your rear camber may not be even after adjustment. That's a side effect of using the center adjuster, camber adjustment per side isn't even. Either suck it up or buy a set of individual camber adjusters from Mazdatrix, but those are expensive.

I'm still sticking to my original suggestion of (for a street car):

Front:
-2.0 degrees camber (I only suggested this because of my original experience with -1.3 degrees of camber, it just wasn't enough for me. However, he is on stiffer springs than stock, which may stop part of the tire rolling over due to the strut suspension.)
-1.5 degrees camber if you're really worried about tire wear
1/16 inch total toe-in (1/32 inch at each wheel)

Rear
-1.0 degrees of camber
1/8 inch total toe-in (1/16 inch at each wheel) with DTSS eliminated