I apologize if I implied you were either a fool or an idiot.

Oh yes, please do.

AND the actual fab work, let's not forget that.

Your use of the phrase "what he can clean you of, money wise" instead of "profit" would indicate an underlying bias.
I certainly have no problem with a craftsman earning money at his trade, and by extension, making a profit...I expect the same for my efforts, as do you.

Your cage only cost $550 if you place zero value on you time/expertise.
Just because you were your own customer- and apparently got the "good guy" deal- doesn't mean your labor was cost free, you just choose to ignore it.
OK, now things start to derail.
You threw out the $550 figure as an example of how "we" were getting ripped off and conditioned to outrageous prices, yet when pressed, admit that you'd actually charge double that to make a cage.
Is this not an example of "cleaning me out, money wise"?

I'm seeing a picture of a car that has been decapitated forward of the firewall, so what "existing chassis" are you working with here?
The pivot points are hanging in air, there is no frame to work with till you put it there, a process that according to you, is pretty simple and won't even require a frame table, just a plumb bob.
I appreciate the Smokey reference. My favorite quote, "The racing starts when you open the rule book", shows a quite evolved attitude towards cheating.

Tube framed '57 Chevys?

So, what price should we pay?
I want the entire front of the car removed and replaced with a structure to hang the suspension, engine, cooling system and bodywork on.
And a million little detail brackets for the rest of the miscellanea involved.

If you say less than $10k, I don't understand why every race team in America isn't lined up outside your shop.

 

yes you don't understand.

when you pay for the race car yourself, you either don't race much or you learn how to do things like building a cage

 

Kudos on being self-reliant.

Completely irrelevant when assigning value to work however.

You built your own roll cage for $550 material cost and say that we're all being overcharged for similar work, yet when asked to duplicate it the price doubles.
So in fact, your actual cost was double, you simply chose to discount the price to yourself.
This is basic self-employment economics, the fact that you work for yourself doesn't excuse you from accounting for all the cost- including labor- just because the customer is you.

 

Just do it.

In my opinion, on top of what everyone else has said, it's double overkill. Unless the car is never going to see the street, there is no reason to do this, whether you have the means to do it or not. There are far cheaper, and easier, bolt in solutions that accomplish the same goal while maintaining streetability.

Unless your building an all out race car, this is pointless.

But you've already made up your mind before asking for advice, so go ahead and try it.

 

i dont get it.... does he HAVE to pay himself or something.. when i change the oil from my car i dont charge myself extra for it... i dont see how that would work

 

No, you don't get it.
Gawdofdirt has said that we are all paying too much for fab work and cites his $550 roll cage as an example.
Turns out, he built the cage himself, for himself and the value he places on it should anyone else want one, is over a grand.

That's the point, now do you see it?

 

its ur car, u gotta go with what u like, and want to do and not rely on the approval of others.
this project is pretty out there, but ill be impressed when we see the final product.

better to reach for the stars then keep ur head in the sand

good luck!

 

This is just plain stupid. Do you charge yourself for unplugging your drains? No.

So I am here encouraging a guy with a dream to go forth. You are here pissing on the campfire.

Too silly to charge myself to make my car. You do not do this. if you do, it's fruitless or for tax purposes only. And written off as "advertising."

A good fabricator looks at what he has to work with first. Not wipe the slate clean and go forth. I have done many projects of this sort so to explain the process to a newbie who would not understand the process is useless . No need to do a "firewall forward" rehash. Retain the rails.

I won't comment on the rest of your dribble as it is just that. If you do not fab, then don't comment on it. I do not comment on airplanes as I do not fly one.


Yunick stated, "If you're not cheating, You''re not racing."

I'm not a guy who likes to see his words on a website, like you. So I race, and build, and get paid to advise on the best wat to get to point "B" with projects.

You, most likely would have told the Wright Bros. to stick to bicycles. So unless you have actual data to offer, don''t create a post on someone elses post. Be original and proactive.

I'm done.

GD

 

I think the point he is trying to make is: time is money.

Do you value your personal time at all? If the value of your time is zero, then of course, labour isn't part of the cost of your fabrication project. If it is something you really enjoy, and you are unemployed and have no other way of making money, then I can see this. But if you have a job and skills which could earn you money (like fabrication), then your time has value. What that value is, is up to you.

But drain unplugging cuts into my valuable "working on the car" or "watching TV" time. So drain unplugging comes at a penalty.

Encouragement is awesome, but sometimes people need a swift dose of reality. Do you really think that the person asking these questions has the knowledge to carry out this project? Really? Why didn't he just ask his designer/fabricator/racer dad who apparently has a full machine shop? Maybe he did, and his dad told him that he is biting off more then he can chew. This "reach for your dreams" rhetoric has ruined several generations of kids who now fall on their face when thrust into the real world.

I'm all for encouragement, but it must be realistic. No one in their right mind would suggest that someone front-half their car as a first project. Appropriate advice would be to start small, build up the fabrication skills and then tackle a big project like this. Telling someone to go ahead with no prior experience just results in the guy standing in front of his car, which is now missing its front end, holding a sawzall with a "WTF do I do now?" look on his face.

And the Wright brothers would have ignored this advice, because they had already been fabricating for years and had the skill set to build their machines already.

 

first off, thanks to the guys who are sticking up for me like gawdodirt. as for the others, GO **** YOUR SELFS! i dont care how much you think i shouldent do this, just tell me i dont think its a great idea but maybe try this first. not "your a ******* retard, you think you can do this hahaha". ****** *****. ill see if i go through with this but the decision wont have anything to do with all the bs you guys told me. and i know it wont be done in a few months but more like a few years, im not stupid, all i was wondering is if anyone here had attempted it and if you found any kits that would reduce the amount of total fabrication work so not every peace had to be made from scratch. and i dont have to spend a fortune on it, we have programs like solid edge, so i can make it there first test it and if it works, duplicate it. and as for the charging myself thing, my car to me is my ever evolving hobby, no number of hours are too many. for now ill start with the engine and work from there.

btw this is my last post for this thread, i wont reply to any more bs from guys who are just too scared or are jealous that i possibly can and they know they cant.

o and aaron, if you could, just take this thread down its of no use to anyone.

 

So what kind of motion ratio do you want? How much spring? Tire and rim dimensions? What type of brakes? Do you have any test equipment? Scales? Shock pots? Are you going to package a dry sump so you can drop the engine and lower your CG? What about the impact attenuator? What type of class are you competing in? Have you even cracked the rule book?! Most of the specs are already given in the rules.

 

Given Mr. Cools timeline of "a few years", I suspect this will be for some sort of vintage racing class.

 

as i said before, don't ask stupid questions. did you even open or read a book to know what goes into designing such a setup for a car that is never designed to see the road? did you? no. you did not. did you go to a track and see any cars first hand that were designed with such suspension setups? no. you didn't.

you are getting pissed because we told you it was not going to work, and it was a pipe dream. you get offended. oops, maybe you shouldn't be such a lil puss and take some engineering classes at the community collage that you have yet to attend. let me ask you this very important question.

how many years have you been racing? or have been designing car parts? or have been welding? if the answer to any of these questions is "never" then you will never EVER get to use, build, or even take part in such a piece of engineering or machinery. plain and simple.

 

Obviously Mr. Cool is too cool for school.