zjbarra

iTrader: (2)

I've noticed that for some reason a lot of people don't do front mount intercoolers for a long time. Guys will install upgraded turbos and use the stock top mount before converting to any form of front mount. Maybe I'm just looking at the wrong cars (most have been for sale) but is there a good reason for it? One guy I asked told me because it's too expensive. I could understand why you wouldn't want to put a huge front mount on a stock turbo but why not something smaller??? Talon guys will run the starion front mount intercoolers on their cars for street cars and then worry about bigger upgrades after that. I just see a lot more people holding out to buy a greddy front mount or something that is already made for you. Are people just lazy or am I just missing something?

NZConvertible

It's a lot of work. The shape of the front of the car and the fact that it never had even a small FMIC means a lot of work (cutting, fabrication, relocating) is required to get pipes out to the front.

jreynish

iTrader: (2)

I Custom built my frist Intercooler, am now workign on my second! It is a rediculous amount of work to just fit somethign in there! In my opinion anybody who cannot weld (TIG) should just buy a kit, Much easyer, It is a pain in the *** to get **** like that just right! when greddy makes it for a couple hundred more than I am doing it and it would only take an hour or two to install where this is taking 40+ to fab and install!

zjbarra

iTrader: (2)

huh, so it's about time mainly? I would assume you wouldn't have to cut that much to make space if you just mimic a kit but you still need to weld the ends on and cut some bends for it. Just seems like a 1k for a kit is a little unnecessary.

jreynish

iTrader: (2)

I made my own (1st) it cost me 750 CDN
I am making my second with better core, it is looking like 890CND reusing piping from first! so as you can see to do a quality job it cots money, Do a search on the net and find what custom intercoolers cost of the same quality of greddy or hks or apexi, then add on the piping! it ends up being the same!

zjbarra

iTrader: (2)

What are you using for the core if you don't mind me asking. What demensions as well? Y'all just sound lazy :-P Is most of that cost coming from the core and sheet metal or are you having it cut and welded by someone else? My brother is an Eagle talon person so that's where most of my knowledge comes from and it seems like a lot of the stuff they do is for pretty cheap but by no means crappy.

imloggedin

what do they do that is cheap and not crappy? id like to have it whatever it is

zjbarra

iTrader: (2)

My brother is in a group buy getting a turbonetics 2-120 (3.5x7.9x24) core and building his own entanks. Core is costing I think 350.

Rxmfn7

iTrader: (4)

Finding a decent core is no problem at all.. Something like out of an Isuzu NPR, or similar can be picked up at $200-$350, and is a very nice, big, high-flowing unit. But there is much more involved to it than just getting a core. Piping for the intercooler must then be bought, bent, and welded to fit. The you will need silicone couplers to piece them together. You may need to end up moving somethings to make the piping fit..whether it be battery, power steering pump and lines, etc. Then there is the question of where to mount, and how. Can your core fit right in front of the rad, or in the bumper, or.. You get the point. After all of this , you are still going to end up paying a good amount of money, and then add all the hassles and questions about piping fitment, etc. You also need an adapter for the Throttle body to use a FMIC, since the stock elbow points upward toward the top mount intercooler.
So looking at all of this, and Greddy making a kit that includes everything for $900 (or whatever it is..) you can see why it is just alot easier and less hassle to buy the kit. Plus, our stock IC should serve its purpose fine for most mildly modified cars.

Ryde _Or_Die

I agree with the first part, but it by no means takes a couple hours to intall a kit either. Try 2 days or so.



Oh and if someone is using the stock IC with a T04 or bigger, then do not purchase the car. It has been modding cheaply and I wouldn't expect it to run well for very long. Reasons for people not getting them would probably be that they cost alot and do not directly give you large HP gains. The 2 things most people care about happen to be money and HP, go figure.

jreynish

iTrader: (2)

I have spent an incredible amount of time and money making custom kits! the first one was a week at least this one since the piping is all done already, it will just be a matter or the core and placement and maybe cutting and adjusting one of the intercooler pipping! I agree a car with t04 and stock top mount! is definitely a cop-out and might not even have the proper fuel mods to support that turbo and thus! you will most likely have to replace the engine soon after you buy it!

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

someone posted numbers on the stock ic (2 temp probes and a few hard 3rd gear runs) and its not all that bad, its about 70% efficent

mike

jreynish

iTrader: (2)

was that with a t04? or with stock turbo! cause the core is well desinged in stock form, just way tooo small! A t04 will flow alot more than the little stocker can handle!

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

i believe it was either stock or a hybrid

Wankel7

There is always water injection with the top mount.

James

jreynish

iTrader: (2)

that is no substitution, you could also spray CO2 or N2O on to the top mount for more power in a jam also but that isn't a permanant fix! it is only when you need that real power! right! where as a good FMIC will always do it's job in cooling! All the time whether cruising or racing!

Wankel7

Water injection is no substitution? What do you know about water injection?

James

jreynish

iTrader: (2)

oops sorry, I misunderstood!
I thaugh you were simply talking about spraying water onto the intercooler not injecting! sorry! My Bad... My Bad...

Even then you still have to worry about making sure it is always "toped" up! right? were as a good front mount no worries!

zjbarra

iTrader: (2)

What exactly is the function of water injection? Does it help prevent detonation? Is it more of a way to get air temperatures colder as they enter the engine? On the subject of front mounts, How much trouble do you guys experience with radiator cooling? What size cores are you using?

adamlewis

BDC uses the stock IC ( though converted to Air->Water ) and makes over 420 whp on a 60-1 HIFI...

badbu68

no fmic for me, topmount sparco a2w setup.

Wankel7

If you are into technical documents I can email one NACA did back in the '30s. Really good write up. This is nothing new either. Back in WWII bombers and fighters were injecting water to obtain higher manifold settings (boost) for heavy takeoffs or to get an extra boost of performance.

The long and short of it is this. Injecting water into your intake in a fine mist will help to cool your intake air. Evaporation, is basicly occuring. Like when you get out of the shower you are chilled by a small breeze. The water absorbs the heat of the intake air. This helps to resist detonation and preignition. So you could tune to run the same boost level on lower octane. Or run more boost on the same octane. Or a little of both.

Some people say this is a big risk. What if the water fails or you run out? Build a good system and don't let the water run out. If you ask me it should be like checking the oil and filling up with gas.

Water injection is safe. However, it adds yet anouther varriable to many other variables when tuning a car.

James

slow87turbo

i have been told that the stock ic is good to 300 hp.

ej

NZConvertible

Read this article on water injection.

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_0115/article.html

zjbarra

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the water injection info guys. I'm an ME major so that kind of technical crap is interesting to me. The top mount A2W idea seems like trouble to me. Putting a device to cool air right above a hot engine just seems like a mistake. Looking at the HP levels that people are getting with them, it looks like you're doing quite well with it. I suppose you get a lot of benefit from the short distance the piping has to go. Where do you guys mount your water coolers for it? Do you just put it where the AC cooler normally is? Do you guys have any good links that compare the cooling of an air to water intercooler to an air to air? I appreciate this a lot, I'm getting a lot of good information from you guys in this thread.