is it safe to run a FMIC w/ the stock turbo... while saving for an upgraded turbo, or is it better to get the turbo first. I was thinking fmic, but would it be too much for the stock turbo (if there is such a thing as too much cooling)
thanks

 

It's an expensive first mod, but there's only advantages when switching to a front mount.

 

I just got payed by a local speedshop to design/maintain their webpage. My payment? A fmic + custom piping + installation

 

How could it be unsafe? As long as it's designed and built properly, there are only gains from moving the IC off the top of the hot engine.

 

while you are still running the stock turbo, Its not too much cooling that you need to worry about as much as the efficiency of the FMIC and the pressure drop across it. (i dont think there is such a thing as too much cooling from an intercooler)

everybody likes to say that it can only help to get the IC off the top of the hot engine.....

yes and no...

when you are driving above 20 MPH.. the factory IC is working just fine... air is being rammed in that hoodscoop pretty well and with the stock turbo its more than adequate for the job..

The rub comes when you slow down, then the TMIC does start to heatsoak. (which can be a real bummer when you are waiting for the green light at the track...... ever see somebody chuck a bag of ice on their IC while in the staging lanes???)

Now then... adding the FMIC is pretty much going to eliminate the heatsoak of the TMIC at slow speeds. BUT, if you go and put a FMIC on there that has a large pressure drop across it... you may actually lose some power over the stock TMIC due to decrease in boost pressure. Here again there is a trade off, Cores that are really efficient at transferring heat are usually internally finned and usually have some modest pressure drop associated with them.

BUT, that increased pressure drop will be vastly offest by the decrease in charge temperature produced by the same core when you upgrade to a bigger turbo....(bigger turbo, more pressure, more heat generated when the air is compressed)

Basically, what I'm saying here is, go ahead and get your frontmount, it is not going to hurt anything, however, do not expect it to give you any great increases in performance, you may in fact loose a little (but not much if anything), AND you will already have the FMIC ready to go for when you install that bigger Turbo. A lot of guys do it the other way and then have to wait longer than they thought to save up for the FMIC and puke their motors in the meantime cause they are still running the stock IC (i know a third gen guy that just got reamed out by Dave and Skip at KDR for this very reason!!)!!!!

 

I have never heard of anyone with a properly-executed FMIC install complain of a loss of power. Ever. If you have a greater pressure drop though the new IC than with the stock one then you've stuffed up. Simple as that.

 

I think he means that by having the larger intercooler and more intricate piping, you may have a little more lag from the turbo trying to fill up all the extra space. But with the much cooler charge, it should make up for that.

 

wow is this every overplayed turbo lag... should not be noticable unless the pipping is over 3m long! I mean seriously, compressed air over ~25cfm being pushed through 3' pipping is almost instantanious! the air moves VERY fast! I mean 100's of a second difference, plus the cooling and densining due to cooling of the charge air... will greatly improve the performance I sincerly doubt that there will be any noticable downfalls using a good fmic. Infact I would only see gains!
Good Luck..
Turbo Lag is in the head (for the most part)

 

so by your reasoning we can all run massive bar and plate Interccolers measuring it at say 25x14x3.5 " with 3" piping all the way around and not have any( perceptable lag) ??

I've found the math and most articles, to tell me otherwise Choosing the right IC for the job IS importatn, just like shoosing the right IC piping diameters.

 

Only thing of too much cooling I can think of is if you have an e fan that is always, constantly running. Rather that just when your car is warm while idling.



Well, the car I'm getting this Thursday has an FMIC in it currently, I don't know a whole lot about the FMIC at the moment, but when in the test drive with it, I really didn't notice much turbo lag at all.



And yes, I think things like better intercoolers and radiators would be good things to start out doing, rather than waiting until your car needs them. Because unless you plan on installing new cooling stuff at the same time as the stronger turbo, you're going to be doing some driving with cooling that might not be suited to your car... Don't want to chance messing things up while waiting to put them in. I think of putting them in first being like having insurance of some sort

 

I mentioned nothing about the core, I was talking about the so called added "lag" due to the extension of the distance of which the charge air has travelled to the front mount and return due the extra pipping is minimal and not noticable. I mentioned nothing about the efficiency or size of the core. You are entirely correct that choosing the core and specs, and what you want to get out of it, and desing to be very important, however this is the same as any top mount upgrade. I am saying that boost lag isn't due to the extended length due to the extra pipping required to front mount. If a good suitable good flowing and efficient core is selected with appropriate dimensions, there should be no noticable "lag" as it is so commonly called, if there is any it will not be due to the extended piping in any real noticable amount.
I have taken several classes on Fluid Dynamics, (yes that includes air... air is a fluid) and as for those people that write those magazines, I am sure have all gotten a degree or two in fluid mechanics or engineering or whatever the case is.
But you were indeed correct that core selection is crutial, but it is the same for everything else in modifying a car. everything should work together in the optimum amount!

 

There was a thread not too long ago, about adding the (GReddy VSPL) FMIC on stock turbo cars.

As in this thread, there was a lot of quoted theory about increased lag.

Then people that have done that upgrade brought forth practical experience, saying that there was no lag and, in fact, the turbo was more responsive...

 

I remember that. Those preaching about horrible lag conveniently ignored those people, despite being asked to explain how this was possible.

 

my point is well proven.

 

I remember that thread, the VSPL actually increased boost response for me. So, if done right and the correct diameter pipes are used you shouldn't have any increase in lag.

-David Guy

 

I love it when I get you goons thinking!!!!!

Ya'll are right, the Geddy VSPL is actually less restrictive than the stock IC, and may actually increase performance on the stock system. But he didn't name names did he??

Now then... how many people actually fork out the cash for the unit??? Not many.. right?? I sure as hell didn't. SOOooo, odds are, our hero here will be making a choice from some other IC and, could end up with something that would actually decrease his overall performance.

Our subject also dosn't list any other mods.

The major thing I wanted to get across was that adding the extra cooling capacity first wasn't going to hurt his car, and it would already be in place when he decided to upgrade his turbo and really needed it.

I just didn't wan to blow any smoke up his *** about the FMIC alone making "Hoy ****" type horsepower gains..

And now, he's got a lot of good info to think about before he just goes out and slaps something on his car!!!! And nobody got flamed!!!!

 

thanks... i have a few mods done, but im looking to big soon... i am currently working on getting it running w/ the correct fuel, but as soon as i can sell my camaro, i will be going fmic, turbo, standalone, etc.
i def. got some good info, and more hp wasnt really on my mind about the fmic, i just wanted to make sure it wouldnt hurt my engine at all
thanks guys