IceRain

I'd like to know too...I have an S5...and I kinda took the airpump + acv out and blocked it off with a block off plate

DerangedHermit

Take out the sleeves.

Yes, there's a noticable power difference. Considering my 7 is a daily driver, there's also a noticable difference in low end torque when they're closed.
Basically...
Wired open = better high end power
Closed 24/7 = better low end torque
Working properly (opening and closing) = best of both worlds

Quick method: Put some grease on the actuators and go cruise around real quick (go over 4k rpm at least once). When you come back, look at the actuators. Has the grease moved? Yes = working.

akari

this can all be searched for on the search section of the website. Its not terribly confusing...personally though, it is a fact that wiring them open you lose some tq and gain the same amount of hp at high end as you would if they worked...so why not make them work and lose NO tq and gain the same hp at high end? Basically from taking what everyone has said about elec control, the actuators are now bypassing the silenoid but still working mechanically because the airpump is still sending the hose 3psi at 3800 rpm...just no elec. to open a valve. The pump doesnt send that vac hose 3psi all the time. only why you gas it and the air box starts sucking hard for air....i think its effective.

just to let you all know i dynoed my car this weekend with the 5th and 6th ports not working...im not sure if they were closed or open, i assume open with my huge loss of torque....but i only ran 108 hp and 93 ft/lbs tq at 7400 rpms....

redynoed with 5th and 6th ports working and got 150 (stock is 146 for an s5 but i have very minor upgrades that jumped it up a lil) HP and 124 ft/lbs tq...

that goes to show it helps to have em working...
a guy also dynoed this weekend on a 6 port na s5 with actuators wired open...he only ran 111hp ?tq...he had a high flow exhaust like me, and a high flow air intake...so you can tell the diff...

-Craig

DerangedHermit

With them wired open, you wouldn't be losing max hp.

Regarding the guy that dynoed...: Once again, if they were open he wouldn't be losing hp.

So... um... wtf are you talking about?

akari

i dunno im just saying the numbers i saw....he had them wired open and only got 111hp...dont remember his torque numbers....maybe there is something wrong with his car other than that...my car however were closed...and i got 108hp 93tq...now its much different after fixing them...*shrug* if thats odd i dunno what to say...

IceRain

do you guys recommend putting the airpump + acv back on or just go electronic?

akari

i dont recommend anything cause i have never done the electronic conversion...though it sounds like it would work well if done correctly...

My personal OPINION (just an opinion not a fact) is that it works just fine with the air pump on, if it already works, why fix it...

then again you sound like you already have it off...so it may be easier if you know what your doing to go elec. *shrug*

just my 2 cents...
-Craig

Black91n/a

fcdrifter13: You cannot simply wire in an RPM switch and have the aux ports operate electronically. It's much more complicated than that. The ECU normally sends the signal at the activation RPM's, so why would having another signal cause the ports to magically open with no airpump? There's absolutely no electrical connections whatsoever to the port actuators.

I had to wire an RPM switch into the aux port system on my car because the ECU wasn't sending the signal any more, but the airpump is still the thing that supplies the mechanical power to open the ports.

GO LOOK IT UP IN THE MANUAL! You can even download the FSM from numerous locations online, so there's no excuse not to look it up. Just insisting that it's true doesn't make it true. If you're going to make these wild claims then you'd better be prepared to back them up.

For those of you thinking of ditching the stock airpump, I've done a bunch of research on it and have concluded that it's not worth it. I wouldn't think that any of the other systems that I've seen adopted would be nearly as reliable as the stock system, because none of the other pumps were rated for continuous use, or they're inappropriately sized for the application (too much flow or pressure). The electrical solenoids that I've seen used to activvate the ports aren't meant for the extended use and harsh environment that they'd be subjected to in the engine bay (high heat especially, they're right over the exhaust manifold). Besides, you're trading engine load from the airpump directly for increased alernator load, so you're not really gaining much if anything in absolutely needed to put something right there.

Phantomkid

hmmm i always thought they were controlled by vacuum pressure, not the ecu....But if you have the stock airpump use that just makes sense theres not like a 20hp gain by taking it off, and the parasitic draw from the pulley isnt that bad either. I guess if you want a really clean engine bay take it off. but then hell just wire them bad boys open or take out the sleeves.Screw low end rx7s wernt made for low end anyway...

Noel Caraballo

iTrader: (2)

isnt it the throttle body's job to determine how much air reaches in the motor, i dont get it,

Valkyrie

The actuators for the VDI are run off of suction, not positive pressure, and I'm pretty sure the 6PI are the same way. I would think the 6PI solenoids simply allow vacuum to reach the actuators at the right time, turning the six-port sleeves.

Which is to say, the actuators don't extend, they retract! (at least for the VDI)

I learned this about the VDI when I took it apart, cleaned it (which makes me glad I had to take my UIM off, I think the VDI was stuck), and greased it back up.

1300ccTuner

good numbers akari, glad to see you back in the hp. get at me tomorrow. later

IceRain

Alright...

I saved my airpump(luckly) but uh..I cut the belt to help remove it. Where can i find a replacement? Also I don't know where I put the ACV...is it still required?

Black91n/a

The 6 ports and the VDI are activated with pressure, not vacuum. You can make an actuator retract using pressure, you just apply the pressure to the backside (how hydraulic rams retract). Remember, it's an airpump, not a vacuum pump. It supplies air to the cats, so that's positive pressure. The ECU sends the signal to the solenoids, it has nothing to do with vacuum, although the ECU only opens the 6 ports when the engine is under load (they won't open if you just rev the engine when stationary).

The ACV is what splits up the air from the pump and sends it to the rats nest to be distributed to the solenoids and then to the actuators. You can probably rig up another system, but the ACV is the easiest way to do it.

Valkyrie

oh yeah...crap :p

(had it backwards in my head I guess)

Phantomkid

thanks for clearing that up i was sure on how it worked just remebered there being alot of line(which i thought where vacuum lines) by the pump and i think maybe the actuators. So those arnt actually 2 actuators but eletrical solenoids is there a difference on the s4 and s5(i know they went more electronic well at least with the omp). Unforuntally my motor(or the pieces to my motor) are 200 miles away or i would go scope it out myself..

Mephis

If the rod is retracted are they open or closed?

I just dumped my air pump... (Thanks to some guy who just moved in and told me all it did was put air into the converters...)

I didn't notice a difference on the highend or lowend, it's possible they wern't working to start with. Altho I get some backfire when revving up and letting off now. I did block off the hose going into the ACV.

I have no power what so ever till 4000rpm. (And didn't even before doing this.)


I will be buying an ACV blockoff plate soon, so like I said, I just blocked the hose for now.

NZConvertible

Jeebuz, there's so much BS posted in this thread it boggles the mind. Some of you guys need to spend some time looking under your hood and/or in the FSM before posting. fcdrifter13, you need to stop posting and listen to others until you get a clue. Really, just stop...

akari, why not find out what's wrong with your car and fix it so it works properly instead of just hacking it? The 6PI system is very simple and easy to troubleshoot. What you've done is not an improvement in any way.

HAILERS

Well said southern boy.

papiogxl

iTrader: (6)

Finally some one that knows something.

And to confuse some other people, it is possible to modify the 5/6th actuators to function on vacuum. I've done it but I believe I am the only one. if you do a search for my thread, you can try it. just PM me with any questions about it, andI'd be happy to answer them.

Icemark

Okay, this thread is so full of Bull crap it must be closed.

#1 all the aux port actuators on the FC work by air pressure. The S4 use air pressure from the exhaust, the S5 use air pressure from the air pump. The do not work electronicly, however on a Stock S5 non turbo, the mechanical energy (air pressure) is electronicly controlled.

#2 You will never ever ever ever ever ever gain any additional power by wiring open the aux ports than what you would have on a properlly functioning system. However you will loose low end torque, when you need it most (starting and under 3800 RPM) if you wire the aux ports open.

#3 The is no way to make the aux ports work off of vac effectivly. Yes you could reverse actuator operation, so that the aux port valve pulls closed at higher vac (such as idle or lift throttle) but operation will be eractic even with RPM switch. It is by far probably the worst way to actuate the aux ports. With how little a air pump (be it the stock or aftermarket) wieghs or costs, there is no point doing any sort of re-engineering to use a less than satasfactory alternative.

#4 akari, if you think you have come up with some new method for aux port actuation, then you can start a new thread on this with a clear and concise description (preferably with pictures). Be prepared to back up what you are doing with a proper explantion.

So, thread closed. Anyone that posted clueless posts in this thread (and there are more than a few): Go read the manual and understand how your car works before posting.