Icemark

Anyone that has seen that car, knows that there is no chrome on it... and the wheels are painted silver.

I would suspect that anyone that think they are chrome are simply (besides crapping in this thread) used to having a car that does not have anything shinny on it, because they drive a POS.

Anyway, get the thread back on track... and stop crapping in it Node and 88t2romad

rotaryracer11

im curious to see the results i was thinking of doing this but i wanna see some numbers before hand

88t2romad

anything ever happen with this.....or did it flop like all other possible projects.

Comitatus

iTrader: (7)

Wheeew...After all these years of finally trying to make it to "Ricer" status, I have finally made it!





Had this adaptor custom made by a forum member about a year ago...It worked flawlessly, and love the "ricer" look of it as well!

Shooooot...who needs performance! Psssssshhhhh.

iceblue

This thread made my head hurt, 3 months later.

The DEI of an intake is the most comprehensive and difficult thing to produce and understand. For some reason everyone thinks Mazda engineers get it wrong. Kind funny how this exact same principle is directly affected to the intake port timing yet so many believe SP your stock NA is a wise thing to do.

Funny how blinded one aspect can be to the other isn’t it.

The TB in this application is hardly the restriction point. The use of an adapter would have consequently no potential gain outside of cosmetics and a cleaner bay. If this is what you want fine do it. If you must go so far as porting and building adapters then you did half *** your work. Do it right and reengineer the motor since you have changed how Mazda engineered it. After you port the motor and test it and understand the flow and velocity pulses your new timing is going to make then design an intake manifold for this. One without the other is just foolish negligence.

This topic is where the power of the motor is made or broken. Your runner length and bends is going to determining how your curve is going to react. The key input you are after here is intake port velocity. This is also directly related to the exhaust pulse velocity tuning.

Alex Rodriguez

iTrader: (137)

good work starscream and i read the whole thing and its funny that the know it alls are the ones that always have something negative to say...in my OPINION i like the fd mainfold and i will probably do it too...but to have people say you are a ricer because of a ******* manifold is plain ignorant

now if see gains good on you if u dont oh well you have something custom that you like...i just hate the fact that anything is ricer nowadays...**** you to all who think that way...BUILD YOUR CARS AND STOP RANTING ON OTHERS JUST BECAUSE YOU MAY KNOW MORE OR HAVE MORE MONEY IN YOUR CAR...its what the owner likes or dislikes whether its a hit or not

iceblue

.

Turbo23

iTrader: (4)

Here is mine. Had a friend with better tools make the adapter, 1 inch block of aluminum (if the adapter is to short, the angle of the runners becomes to sharp) Havent had a chance to get her running yet due to trips to the sandbox. I know there has been quite a bit of discussion about this before, espically concerning soul assissans old car, which not sure if its fact or a false statement gained over 20+ hp from the change

JWteknix

iTrader: (2)

im planning on making a couple of them if any ones intresed plz pm me and let me know wut lim you are using s4 and s5 require differnt adaptors and s4 requires some more work on the fd uim to get it to line up but both will work am thinking of making a kit including longer studs and gaskets for easier installation but all fd manifolds will have to be modified by owners or a machine shop in order for every thing to fit. tyvm
-James NJ

NZConvertible

Nobody said Mazda got it wrong. On the contrary, if someone expects to gain performance from using a later design manifold then they obviously believe Mazda got it right when designing the new manifold. And I don't find DEI that difficult to understand.

That's a silly comment. We're talking about basically the same engine here. In performance terms the main differences between the 13BT and 13B-REW are the latter's slightly bigger ports and a better flowing turbo system with more boost. Those changes also happen to be the same mods performed to most 13BT's that have an FD UIM swapped on, so what's this re-engineering you think is needed? What exactly is it you think has to be done to a 13BT before you can justify using an FD UIM?

88t2romad

didnt intent to ignite more arguing over that fact of this mods "ricer" status. I'm just very interested if there was ever a finished product for purchase. Guess i'll send a PM also.

iceblue

My point on the ^ was in retrospect of doing full motor work. Agreed the motors are basically the same and agreed the UIM in the FD that Mazda did even a bettor job with it. However when you retune the motor you are taking Mazda’s engineering out of scope. Simply that.

Adding an adapter should be compared to the stock lim and see how you have effect or changed the system and appropriate measures taken. Not doing this is fine as long as you understand what changes you are making and you are willing to except them to gain whatever you were after.

NZConvertible

The word "retrospect" does not mean what you think it does. Maybe you mean "in respect to..."?

This statement makes no sense whatsoever.

Again, this makes no sense. I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say.

And you didn't actually answer the question...

Brody8877

iTrader: (10)

Why dont someone show some dynoresult to end to this stupid debate, whether FD manifold was meant to increase hp and stuff.

iceblue

NZConvertible I don’t know how to help you. The statements make perfect sense to me, perhaps because I know what I am trying to say.

Your first comment took both of the quotes you used out of context and I had to rearrange them. I am sorry I was unable to do that in a form you grasped. All I can say is try going over the first post again. If you still want to possibly debate both sides and don't understand call me.

StarScreaM2k1

I am at school then work, i will definately respond to this :P its getting interesting again

teddyrx2

iTrader: (33)

Wow!!!

teddyrx2

iTrader: (33)

Looks good Im not jumping the band wagon on this one, much props playa how about numbers what performance did it push out

rotarygod

iTrader: (1)

Agreed that the tb isn't a restriction. However anytime you make any changes to the engine or intake system, are you not altering how Mazda engineered it? Anytime you port an engine and keep using the stock manifold and ecu, are you not changing how Mazda engineered it?

By doing this swap, all he has done is to change the intake tuning. If you port an engine but keep the stock manifold, you also change the intake tuning! Fortunately forced induction is very forgiving when it comes to doing different things. While I would agree that this probably isn't a performance based mod, at the same time I doubt that he lost anything from it either. He did gain a nice looking engine bay and he's happy with it. Screw how Mazda engineered it. Anyone who has any form of non factory part on their car has changed that anyways.

iceblue

I think we are mostly on the same page here. Now I know allot of what the dealer does is to aid in mass production and cost, however they do take high amount of time and money engineering each aspect to take the best of both worlds. There are some mods that are simply worth doing such as an air intake. Mazda didn’t design there air box for performance but more so quit drivability.

Mazda did engineer the intake system to work optimally with the intake port timing. Boosted motors have a much different tolerance as boost can quickly overcome many defects or poorly designed ports. The VE is changed by changing these aspects and can be bettor or worse. Such aspects as runner length and diameter will directly effect to the power band and performance of the motor. Now Mazda designed this with there concept in mind, and if you don’t like it changing these aspects is going to be needed. My basis was on not so much his adapter but the point of changing one area in this design will affect each item in the chain. You can't do one without the other without something suffering.

Now if his motor was or is NA I will expect a much greater noticeable change in the motor. I would place my bets on worse. If this is still the case more thought would need to be put into the motor about a custom LIM and or port timing changes.

Thank you for your post I enjoy talking to you and NZ about this exact subject as you two are both extremely knowledgeable in it.

tinvestor

I know that you know your **** and I respect your opinions and fully understand what you are saying, but Mazda engineers manifolds for the masses to meet the needs of the average consumer. It should not be difficult to produce a manifold that would outperform the stock FD manifold for any medium to high boost applications.

StarScreaM2k1

iceblue: in reference to your last few posts, sorry to make your head hurt . but yes the purpose of this project is for 3 main reasons, the room under the UIM for my fuel setup, hopefully some sorta performance gain, and also the looks under the hood. Mazda engineered both the FC and FD UIM's, the FD from my perspective looks to be superior, not saying mazda is getting wrong, i just feel the FD is superior to the FC. My engine, incase you didnt know, is a Turbo motor with a monster Streetport, the current setup IS NOT STOCK. So really, the original intent of the engineering really goes out the window. Now saying that i am doing half *** work, exactly what did i half *** do? I have no need to re-engineer the motor, since what i did to it right now, i find to be enough, i dont have the resources to do engine re-engineering, i am 99% sure that would be way more costly then just making an adapter plate and doing some dyno runs to get some numbers down. Now i am not saying i have the proof that this is gonna be 100% guaranteed performance gain, however i know that it will be a 100% look gain in my opinon. Now saying that its not gonna do this and that, what proof do you have? Do you have dyno numbers? Since you seemed so fixated. I mean if you read all my previous posts, i never said i 100% know its gonna be a increase, i always HYPOTHESIED it would, and hence my plan to do dyno runs to prove that it does or does not. I do apologise if i seem harsh, its just people havent read my posts too see what i am exactly trying to do, if i has misinterpreted how you are saying things, please explain to me how you meant them.


Also for everyone wondering why i have not done the dyno runs its for a few reasons, the car is off the road for winter (damn canadian weather kicking up), my greddy FMIC kit has not come in yet (i need that to do the dyno runs, since the FD uim cannot work with the TMIC, so i was gonna do runs with the Greddy FMIC kit and the FC and FD Uims so the only thing that would change is the UIM's and not the entire Intake setup.), so its gonna have to wait till the spring, and in that time i can get the plate all sanded and smooted out on the inside of the holes, and make sure my mounting hardware is gonna work well.

Just to make it clear for everyone, i am not stating this is a 100% performance guarantee, i am hoping there is some increase, but that can only be confirmed with dyno reports and testing. I know i personally like the look of the FD UIM better, and i would also like a bit more room under my UIM so i can run my fuel lines better and nicer. Its a ongoing project, and its something to be worked on and improved. Now if it works or not is something that needs to be proved. So far i have not seen any reports saying that it IS better, or that IT IS NOT better. As far as i know, i would be one of the first to actually post results. If someone has results please post them as i couldnt find them (searched).

Thanks to everyone for their support, even if theres been some debating, i dont mind atleast the topic is being thought about

rotarygod

iTrader: (1)

Don't worry about not dynoing it. Dyno numbers don't tell much anyways. I have no idea why people must always have them to believe anything? A dyno is only good for a full throttle run. It doesn't tell anything that is going on with the other 99% of the usable rpm and load range. Dyno's are primarily just tuning devices. This swap is really no better or worse than someone swapping out S4 for S5 manifolds or swapping between Cosmo and REW manifolds or using any of them on non stock ports, etc...

It isn't THAT critical. This simple adaptation is not going to implode the universe. Tech talk aside, while everything is measureable with the right equipment, I doubt highly that this will have any negative effects on power at all. Even if it does, will it really be so bad that it's noticably slower? Doubtfully. Mazda designed these intake manifolds to be used on 255 hp cars. If their engineering was really so precise and the effects of tuning were so tight and unforgiving of other combinations, we wouldn't have seen people like Ari and others make over 600+ rwhp on a stock manifold!

It looks awesome. Good work!

StarScreaM2k1

Thanks for the good words Rotary God!

(and btw, is it just me, or the edit your post option go away after a few mins)

DarkKnightFC

It wouldn't be difficult as a few of the guys on the forum have done it. The biggest turn off to a custom mani is price and ease of actually making one. The most recent one was said to cost around $1000 for the public tho. The guy had no intent of producing one but he said if they duplicated it thats how much they would charge. Thats ******* outrageous in my book. If I could have an FD manifold setup on my car for around $300 then yes I would certainly do it. And I could make this work by not having to weld anything or cut anything or grind anything really. There are certainly more pros about this than cons. No matter if it makes horsepower gains or not. When you start pushing more boost will a bigger throttle body help? Would a straighter path for the air to travel help? The bottle neck could be the LIM but who the **** is gonna make another LIM? The ease of installing a front mount or Vmount without having to buy an expensive as hell front mount kit from greddy to put on the stock TB elbow or buy one from higgi, or at least the piping from them, when you could just use a much larger greddy tb elbow. A possibly more reliable and easier to adjust TPS? I know I'd kill for that.

Icemark you're a good guy but that ricer comment was out of your ***. It falls in the same context as your rims, Mazda rims and front bumper not good enough for you? Are they any wider to inhance grip or just larger around? Would it be ricer if you put FD wheels on there because they're wider and possibly lighter? That bumper is PURELY asthetic so don't try to play the functionality card. I'm not trying to bust your ***** or **** you off, but thats like the pot calling the kettle black.

Chris