StarScreaM2k1

So, i been looking into the FD Adaptor Plate so i can fit a FD UIM on a FC LIM. Yes i have searched, and read up upon it, and after everything i read i still went ahead with making one. Now everyone says to get a s5 LIM, however the Adaptor Plate i made uses the s4 lim (i am sure i can modify it, or make them for the s5 too). So i am gonna pick it up Tommorow (since i was too late today to pick it up). I am thinking to start making them for sale, however i am not sure how much demand there is for it or if anyone wants one still. I am thinking around 200ish for the plate and instructions on the TPS (since i will be using the FD and i read up on how to splice it to work for S4 and S5), and pics of the install. Obviously since i am doing it alot of it i can test personally and adjust the ones i make after. I'll post up pics once i the the piece back. So basically, who would be interested in getting this and whatever. I mean i am willing to setup a group buy for it and make it cheaper since i would be doing more then 1 - 2 pieces. Let me know what you guys think!

angyll20

What is the benefit of using a FD UIM over the stock FC or Jspec FC?

StarScreaM2k1

I would first tell ya to search it up. Theres a few pro's and con's and each of them are mostly opinionated.

Mostly its for cosmetic and for the 'theoretical' fact that the air has more velocity going into the combustion chambers because with the FD you eliminate the 90 degree then 180 degree hump thing. Also the throttlebody is larger on the FD. The FD has larger secondaries, but smaller primaries IIRC. I am hoping to do alot of testing with it and report back, but thats in time.

ronbros3

why not a custom intake and be done with it, if you are gonna do it !! DO IT RIGHT.

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

Why don't you tell the team of Mazda engineers who developed the FD manifold that they didn't "do it right".......

edit: don't forget the FD TPS is superior

(BTW starscream, did you buy Charn's FD manifold? is that where this is stemming from?)

StarScreaM2k1

No, this is all totally new. I mean i am doing a rebuild and i wanted it to be more purdy, then i found the FD manifold stuff, then i started to read more and thought this is something that i think i can actually get done. So i setup accounts with 2 metal factories to get aluminim blocks, and then went to machine shops and stuff seeing who would buy the idea of doing this (since most dont want to because they gotta stop their current work). Got someone and he was kinda happy to do it too (he was a car guy, he has some sorta drag camaro). But yeah off topic there.. yeah..

88t2romad

ive been looking for one for about a year, so you can definatly count me in for a adapter for a s5 lim->fd Uim.

I wanted the mani swap for looks, the tps, and it just SEEMS like it will flow better.

StarScreaM2k1

UPDATE TIME!

So i got the hunk of metal back, and all i had to do was port it out to the desired specifications. Now, i WAS gonna get the machine shop to do it for me, however when i did some more measuring, i decided to take 1 - 2 manifolds and measure them (of each FD and FC), and i realised they arent all the same, the 2 FD manifolds i had were off by like ~2-3 mm same thing with the FC, hence i didnt get them to port it. So after i had done some porting to it, its starting to look good. I also had to notch the FD Manifold for the bolt holes and voila! it fits!
oh yeah.. also got the FD manifold kinda ported and smoothed out!

All thats left now is to smoothen out the porting (its still a bit rough), and then get some studs and trim the excess metal away so the adaptor plate is closer to the gasket shape and its all good to go!

Heres some pics!

Brody8877

iTrader: (10)

if i can remember correctly teamfc3s shops sell an Adapter for FD UIM to an FC LIM. also S5 LIM is more closely fit than the S4 LIM to the FD UIM.

StarScreaM2k1

yeah... check the price out on that thing.. and i have a s4... also it was HELL of alot cheaper doing it this way, and it was actually fun, but if a headache at times but it was fun to see how to port it (i learned how to port on this.. THANX RPM!)

Brody8877

iTrader: (10)

you have few option. Port matching to fit the FD UIM onto an S4 LIM, Get an adapter for a FD UIM from teamfc3s store or search it, or make your own adapter.

lazy man way is get an adapter!

StarScreaM2k1

well if i am getting an adaptor = lazy man
and i am making it myself = not lazy man
does the lazyness cancel out therefore = man

LOL

Icemark

don't see the point in this mod, well unless you are just a ricer...

So you extend the length of the runners (bad thing- changes throttle response and DEI port timing) and you add a big jog to the runners (distroying intake volocity).

Is there any reason for this???

StarScreaM2k1

Yeah, there is reason to this, actually a few:
1) Cosmetic
2) Bigger Throttlebodies
3) There isnt the 90degree then 180degree turn around that from what i understand isnt as efficient as just a 90degree alone.

Now from what i understand the 'big jog' to decrease intake velocity, i thought basically this is similar to throttlebody spacing which usually increases the velocity or well soemthign to test for. As for throttle response i guess thats something i am just gonna have to test. I havent seen anyone here with concrete proof of this, and if there was (which i dont remember) i clearly wasnt happy with the results. So i might as well try it myself i mean the cost of everything total to this date is around 220 bucks CDN. I dont mind spending some cash on trying to learn something, get some hard fact and maybe even benefitting from it. If it works out and i get some solid proof that this works well excellent, if it doesnt, then i did it in the name of research. NEXT! lol

Cosmo_TT

iTrader: (11)

of all the things people do to their cars and the ricer card is pulled on this
i have wanted an FD or RE mani for awhile they look way better
Ricers are people who do unnessicary mods or ones done in bad taste
now yes taste is an opinion but to me this mod/project is like polishing the stock manifold
some do it cause it looks better than not polished and some like the way the FD mani looks better than the FC i know i do
calling this RICER is like calling everyone who swaps s5 taillights into the s4
its all preference

Wankel7

If you are going to all this work...I would say take the setup to a dyno day... and do a before and after...?

James

Icemark

actually I think people lame enough to switch S5 tail lights onto a S4; ricer too.

The universal term for ricer used on this board is for modifications that are purly for cosmetic purposes and serve no performance increase.

This intake runner mod is strickly that. The increased size of the throttle body will not provide any increase in HP over the stock throttle body.

James you have it right exactly. That should have been done first.

StarScreaM2k1

Agreed its all preference. I dont think its really a ricer mod, i totally agree with ya there Cosmo. I mean if i am trying to make something perform better, and it ends up not working as well as i thought, its now a ricer mod since its purely cosmetic? I guess 99% of the cars out there are all ricer in someway shape or form.

Yeah i did say in my post that there are things i would be testing for, Dyno is the one way and the other is taking it to my university and asking some prof's if they can help me figure it out (usually they are good that way). I mean i am planning on testing the setup, as i have said that in my post. I still have my T2 UIM and i also have the FD UIM, so of course the T2 UIM would be my control and the FD would be the variable. But yes, your idea is something i wanted to do.

So anyone with a front lip, or a paintjob that is nice, changing their lights (front/rear/sidemarkers), having basically anything to make your car unique in looks is basically ricer. By 'The universal term for ricer used on this board is for modifications that are purly for cosmetic purposes and serve no performance increase.' anything and everything that has no performance is a ricer mod. Well then, a aftermarket gauge that doesnt provide me with any performance (its only used to monitor) then infact by this board is a ricer mod. So either the definition is way to vague and almost anything can be included, or it needs to be more specific. Also this really cant be defined as a ricer mod...just yet, by this definition. As like i said before i havent seen any real hard proof, heresay doesnt really provide proof right?

Also, HP isnt the be all and end all. Performance isnt only how much HP you have. Its how fast you can stop, you suspension setup, your throttle response, your tires and how they grip the road (drag tires, wet tires, all season, whatever it maybe), etc. these ALL relate to performance. Maybe i didnt make myself clear in any of my posts, so i'll give it another go: I have not seen ANY proof to say this is detrimental to performance, or even and increase in performance. I _DO_ plan on testing the setup (yes, using the T2 as my control and the FD as a variable and see if there is any increase). Some aspects of testing i do not know how to do, given, but thats something i plan on finding out and proceed in a systematic way that can be tested. Yes i plan on testing T2 one first, i dont see how "that should be done first" really plays a role in your post. I havent done anything that cant be reversed or paused or stopped. Now if theres any proof that you can provide about your statements about not having any increase please enlighten me so i can have a better perception on things.

88t2romad

so uh, i hate to intrude on the whole lame ricer arguement, but when will you have one for sale....s5->fd

StarScreaM2k1

Not sure... i hope soon. I gotta finish mine up and put it on and make sure it works. At that point i may just sell them, or do the testing and then sell it. PM me, and we can keep in contact. Thanx.

Icemark

I would think the dyno sheets from the last person to do this, or his thread on it would have been enough proof.

But feel free, you can castraite your car in the name of looking cool all you want. You have strange ideas on performance already based on your reply

for example:
No, an additional gauge would be a performance mod...just like a lip spoiler would be, or a proper paint job. Now adding a 2nd tach- that would be ricer.

But a racing sticker, magnets on the fuel line, big alum wing, a Tornado intake vane, or the top of a FD manifold would definatly be a ricer mod, as it does nothing to increase performance, and in some cases actually decreases performance.

rarson

A proper paint job a "performance mod?"

Please. Maybe on this board "rice" is defined as anything non-performance, but in reality, it's limited to tastelessness. A performance mod can very well be done in such a horrible fashion as to be considered rice, regardless of whether it does in fact provide a benefit. But hey, closed mindedness is your perogative.

By the way, I'm sure you'll find that in a pressurized system, the slight increase in cross-sectional volume in the intake manifold won't make any difference whatsoever. However, the smaller diameter runners of the FD manifold should increase turbulence and therefore promote better air-fuel mixing, providing for more efficient combustion (okay, so it may not compute into more power, so I guess it's rice, right?)

I'm not trying to pick on you Icemark, because I respect your opinion a lot, as you have established yourself as a very knowledgable individual. However, reading your posts it seems as though you have no actual experience or fundamental understanding of fluid dynamics to back your statements. And I just think your view of rice is a bit ridiculous (no one should be chastised for doing some simple mods to make their car look better when it's done in good taste, ie S5 tail lights).

Oh yeah, and you might want to research the effects of magnetic fields on polar molecules passing through them.

adrock3217

If this is with the stock turbo, I would call it cosmetic. But, as Mazda obviously intended the stock manifold to be used with the stock horsepower/air-flow, anything bigger would warrant the use of an FD/RE manifold. Why else would the FD and Cosmo use these?? Obviously there is some improvement, which warranted Mazda to use this manifold instead of the one coming on the T2.


The T2 manifold was designed around the idea of a topmount. With the topmount gone, it seems wise to utilize the area you now have available to fit in a proper manifold design, IE: No severe bends.

StarScreaM2k1

Where are the Dyno Sheets? I searched for them before and didnt get any. However if you have them saved or something please do post them as i would like to see the results. I havent seen then, so i cannot comment if its enough proof or not..

And my example of a gauge was right by your thinking from what you told me directly about remember 'this board definition'. How does it add performance? how does a proper paintjob add performance? Its ricer by this board because well it doenst help my car go any faster, or stop any better, or add any HP, etc etc. I am jsut using the same pricipals you were. You can say i have strange idea's sure, i dont mind that. Atleast i am thinking out of the box, Felix Wankel did and were here today. I am not saying i am a felix wankel by any way. but atleast i am trying to figure something out, others have too on this exact same thing, but maybe i can provide some proof as well.

Like i said, show me some hard proof and lets talk then, atleast then i can compile some of my own data and atleast compare it to some hard proof and see the results. If they are the same then i know that this just further proves that its not a good mod, and i have been proven wrong and my hypothesis failed, and everyone on the board can now have 2 solid tests that have been compared. If its different then its something that can be investgated more and tested more and maybe even refined and add more performance. Maybe i am just searching wrong, if you can PM me the topics, or post them here. I am not saying i am right or your wrong, i wanna know maybe this is a futile idea maybe its not, but post me the info because i cant find it.

I am more then welcome to be proven wrong, and i will totally accept it, just some hard proof, and if none can be found then i am willing to do some myself. I know fully well that this mod may not get me anything (in terms of performance), however by the same token this mod may get me something as well (in terms of performance).

Yeah i am not using the stock Turbo, i am going hybrid, hoping to push 10-15psi, and also going with a FMIC. So yeah not stock by anymeans. I agree mazda must of have some thinking behind the UIM on FD/Cosmo. But i am hoping it does do something better then just look good. Heres a pic below of the motor as it is right now. Still gotta get a bunch of parts and whatnot in, damn shipping taking soo long!

To go along similar to what Rarson said, from what i understand the Spacer/Adaptor is like a throttlebody spacer piston engines use to promote some increase in performance, now if the same principle can be used on a rotary, i dunno but thats something to test for. Also the FD manifold has smaller primary runners, and larger secondaires, now i was thinking that the smaller primaries should help when not on boost, and the larger secondaries should help on boost. I imagine that i may get some lowend, but limit topend? But all of this is needs to be proven.

Icemark

I am not gonna search, that is something you should have done before hand.

How about this... did you discuss this with your prof??? does he understand anything about flow dynamics?? do you??? Oh hell it doesn't matter. It'll be a expensive learning experience for you both in time and money.

... I guess you and Rarson don't understand that either.

#1 Throttle body spacers do not increase performance on any engine.
#2 Throttle body spacers change the throttle plate position, in some vehicles this leads to changing the torque band. Many people confuse this with increased power, when it simply lowers or raises the torque curve. Lower torque seems like more power to some people because they seldom run a motor up into the upper RPMs where the torque curve falls off. Same torque band, just now now lower or higher up (but not both).
#3 that is why throttle body spacer manufactures can get away with CARB exhemption stickers... because it doesn't change emissions or power.

Doesn't matter what I am telling you. You need to see for yourself. I just hope you don't sucker other board members into this by selling them the thing to them. Then it would be like selling other members Tornados.

And when you are done; be a man, post your results! Then we can have another thread on this. I am done trying to save you and with this thread.