FC safety?
02-03-08, 05:10 PM
#51
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I believe the FC is damn safe compared to the build of cars today. I was in a civic that hit a pole doing 80 ish, the whole damn car folded up, , the driver seat twisted I was in the rear and my foot got pinned by the front seat that pulled out of the floorboard. We couldnt open the doors and we all crawled out thank God, but we were F'd up.
However I spun my fc into a wall doing 70 a few weeks ago, the front his dead on, and the rear hit twice. Both A-pillars were fine and the entire cabin was untouched, just banged my leg on the wheel.
I am a bit weary of s5's though, I got in a low speed (25mph or so) head on crash in my '91 and the seatbelt ripped right out of the a-pillar. I smashed my face into the steering wheel. This may have bene a one time thing because, the belt in my '89 mentioned above worked perfectly at a higher speed.
However I spun my fc into a wall doing 70 a few weeks ago, the front his dead on, and the rear hit twice. Both A-pillars were fine and the entire cabin was untouched, just banged my leg on the wheel.
I am a bit weary of s5's though, I got in a low speed (25mph or so) head on crash in my '91 and the seatbelt ripped right out of the a-pillar. I smashed my face into the steering wheel. This may have bene a one time thing because, the belt in my '89 mentioned above worked perfectly at a higher speed.
02-03-08, 07:55 PM
#53
Nope. Modern ABS braking and Vehicle Stability programs.
For example, say Mrs. Joe Dipshit was on her way to pick up the kids from soccer traveling down the interstate at 70mph. She's sipping her Starbucks and on the phone with her BFF Jill, she's not noticed the cars in front of her have hit their brakes rather hard because someone up ahead had a tire blowout. When she finally snaps back to reality, she slams on her brakes and swerves. The ABS braking stops the wheels locking up, while the stability program keeps her going true without severe under or oversteer side effects.
Assuming ABS, but removing the Stability program, she may not have locked up her brakes...but she would've most likely nicked the car in front of her.
Why are you questioning the word of almighty Toyota? Are you afraid they're wrong? Are you afraid I'm wrong? Or are you just trying to be right...?
Some other manufacturers only claim it reduces accidents by a third, but Toyota says it's up to a half. And in America, I agree.
For example, say Mrs. Joe Dipshit was on her way to pick up the kids from soccer traveling down the interstate at 70mph. She's sipping her Starbucks and on the phone with her BFF Jill, she's not noticed the cars in front of her have hit their brakes rather hard because someone up ahead had a tire blowout. When she finally snaps back to reality, she slams on her brakes and swerves. The ABS braking stops the wheels locking up, while the stability program keeps her going true without severe under or oversteer side effects.
Assuming ABS, but removing the Stability program, she may not have locked up her brakes...but she would've most likely nicked the car in front of her.
Why are you questioning the word of almighty Toyota? Are you afraid they're wrong? Are you afraid I'm wrong? Or are you just trying to be right...?
Some other manufacturers only claim it reduces accidents by a third, but Toyota says it's up to a half. And in America, I agree.
02-03-08, 07:58 PM
#54
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ABS may be a good thing for daily driving in a new BMW but it sucks and doesn't work all that well in any of the 80's era cars I've driven including the Rx7.
I don't know if the Rx7 was ever tested, like this but many of the mid 80's cars with abs would stop longer then there non abs counterparts, and as the parts wear the pump will leak necesitating a 1000 dollar replacment part that may be NLA. As parts wear the abs can also get inconsistent.
as a side note, I saw an article in a motorcycle magazine that stated that mandatory abs on motorcycles could reduce motorcycle accidents by 75% and eliminate 50% of motorcycle accident deaths.
I don't know if the Rx7 was ever tested, like this but many of the mid 80's cars with abs would stop longer then there non abs counterparts, and as the parts wear the pump will leak necesitating a 1000 dollar replacment part that may be NLA. As parts wear the abs can also get inconsistent.
as a side note, I saw an article in a motorcycle magazine that stated that mandatory abs on motorcycles could reduce motorcycle accidents by 75% and eliminate 50% of motorcycle accident deaths.
02-03-08, 08:22 PM
#55
So essentially, you just bashed on ABS and then praised it.
Older generation ABS systems weren't perfect. These things get better designed with age. No one said anything about the FC's ABS system, we've been talking about newer cars.
I've never driven an FC with ABS, but if I ever buy one with the option, I probably wouldn't remove it if it wasn't broken. Same goes for the Airbag. They can sit on standby for AT LEAST 15 years with an almost guaranteed deployment if needed. They go under very very extensive aging processes to ensure this.
This being said, any old car with airbags that I have seen wrecked with enough assumed damage to deem airbags necessary (Knowing nothing about the accident, we're talking wrecking yards and such) were deployed.
Older generation ABS systems weren't perfect. These things get better designed with age. No one said anything about the FC's ABS system, we've been talking about newer cars.
I've never driven an FC with ABS, but if I ever buy one with the option, I probably wouldn't remove it if it wasn't broken. Same goes for the Airbag. They can sit on standby for AT LEAST 15 years with an almost guaranteed deployment if needed. They go under very very extensive aging processes to ensure this.
This being said, any old car with airbags that I have seen wrecked with enough assumed damage to deem airbags necessary (Knowing nothing about the accident, we're talking wrecking yards and such) were deployed.
02-03-08, 08:30 PM
#56
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The title of this thread is FC safety, I'm just applying the discussion to the FC.
I'm not bashing ABS just stating the facts as I see them, fact is ABS on a 20 year old car can get you into slides at the edge of control especially in wet or slippery conditions and stop slower than if the ABS wasn't there, and thats when its working correctly, when its not...
As far as I'm concerned abs in other cars on the road is a good thing, anything that keeps an expedition or 7series BMW from plowing into the rear end of my car when traffic gets thick is a good thing
I didn't say anything about the airbag.
I'm not bashing ABS just stating the facts as I see them, fact is ABS on a 20 year old car can get you into slides at the edge of control especially in wet or slippery conditions and stop slower than if the ABS wasn't there, and thats when its working correctly, when its not...
As far as I'm concerned abs in other cars on the road is a good thing, anything that keeps an expedition or 7series BMW from plowing into the rear end of my car when traffic gets thick is a good thing
I didn't say anything about the airbag.
So essentially, you just bashed on ABS and then praised it.
Older generation ABS systems weren't perfect. These things get better designed with age. No one said anything about the FC's ABS system, we've been talking about newer cars.
I've never driven an FC with ABS, but if I ever buy one with the option, I probably wouldn't remove it if it wasn't broken. Same goes for the Airbag. They can sit on standby for AT LEAST 15 years with an almost guaranteed deployment if needed. They go under very very extensive aging processes to ensure this.
This being said, any old car with airbags that I have seen wrecked with enough assumed damage to deem airbags necessary (Knowing nothing about the accident, we're talking wrecking yards and such) were deployed.
Older generation ABS systems weren't perfect. These things get better designed with age. No one said anything about the FC's ABS system, we've been talking about newer cars.
I've never driven an FC with ABS, but if I ever buy one with the option, I probably wouldn't remove it if it wasn't broken. Same goes for the Airbag. They can sit on standby for AT LEAST 15 years with an almost guaranteed deployment if needed. They go under very very extensive aging processes to ensure this.
This being said, any old car with airbags that I have seen wrecked with enough assumed damage to deem airbags necessary (Knowing nothing about the accident, we're talking wrecking yards and such) were deployed.
02-03-08, 08:42 PM
#57
Ya, I've heard similar things about ABS. Newer and better brands have better ABS.
I dunno where that Toyota 50% reduction in accidents number came from. I mean, stability control reduces accidents by 30% and that's supposed to be super amazing. Maybe 50% less injuries, compared to the old tin cans they used to sell. If you do a bit of forum searching you'll read that the FC chasis is pretty robust too.
As for airbag deployment, failure rate is ridiculously low. When Honda tried to make theirs extra reliable, first they consulted with NASA to get failure down to 1 in 100,000. That meant 1 of Honda's airbags might fail, and that wasn't good enough for them. So they improved it to 1 in 1,000,000. So what's Ford gonna hit? 1 in 1000? Even if true, oh well.
I dunno where that Toyota 50% reduction in accidents number came from. I mean, stability control reduces accidents by 30% and that's supposed to be super amazing. Maybe 50% less injuries, compared to the old tin cans they used to sell. If you do a bit of forum searching you'll read that the FC chasis is pretty robust too.
As for airbag deployment, failure rate is ridiculously low. When Honda tried to make theirs extra reliable, first they consulted with NASA to get failure down to 1 in 100,000. That meant 1 of Honda's airbags might fail, and that wasn't good enough for them. So they improved it to 1 in 1,000,000. So what's Ford gonna hit? 1 in 1000? Even if true, oh well.
02-03-08, 08:56 PM
#58
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ABS and Traction control may have some advantages to those who have a fair amount of driving skill and can utilize/work with the ABS and traction control... But remember, ABS and traction control can't be substituted for bad driving. Read the fine print in some commercials, like BMW for example, recently they were advertising that 9 or 12 of their models had AWD, advanced traction control and other safety stuff. Their fine print stated that those safety devices were not meant to be depended on, as dumbfvcks can still do stupid enough things that wouldn't make them any better drivers whether they had a base Corolla with manual windows or a super-secure BMW with the advanced traction control and AWD.
02-03-08, 09:05 PM
#59
Assuming ABS, but removing the Stability program, she may not have locked up her brakes...but she would've most likely nicked the car in front of her.
Why are you questioning the word of almighty Toyota? Are you afraid they're wrong? Are you afraid I'm wrong? Or are you just trying to be right...?
Why are you questioning the word of almighty Toyota? Are you afraid they're wrong? Are you afraid I'm wrong? Or are you just trying to be right...?
02-04-08, 04:19 AM
#60
i walked away fine gettng Tboned in the driver door, other car which was a medium sized sedan was doing 45~ mph
if they were going much faster im not so sure.... but cars arnt designed to be hit from the side really...
if they were going much faster im not so sure.... but cars arnt designed to be hit from the side really...
Last edited by KompressorLOgic; 02-04-08 at 04:33 AM.
02-04-08, 09:32 AM
#61
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ABS, like "stability control", is merely a bandaid for poor driving skill. This is the reason it has been shown to reduce collisions (I hate to call anything an "accident").
02-04-08, 09:46 AM
#62
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
That given, air bags are useless and will hurt you if you are less than 5'3" and more than 6'2". Air bags are simply not designed to accommodate smaller or bigger people.
And I have not heard of an accident that had airbags and that either the driver or passenger didn't have at least a minor injury just from the airbag (minor to severe burns, broken noses, broken bones in wrists, etc).
New cars go under extremely paranoid testing to ensure that the airbag will not deploy unless it is absolutely necessary! If you're going fast enough for the airbag to deploy, then you're slowing down fast enough to NEED the airbag.
I know all of you have probably watched recent crash test videos. The crash test dummies are sitting a proper distance away from the airbag for their height. And this is what you should practice. You will notice in these videos that the human 'substitutes' begin their rapid deceleration, the airbag deploys and gives them more time to decelerate before possibly hitting something hard. It's violent, it's unpleasant, it may break your nose and burn your hands, but you will be alive. You will not go through the windshield and you will not make a face shaped imprint on your dashboard.
Seat belts are your first line of defense. Airbags are your supplemental restraint. Drive safe, use them both.
I know all of you have probably watched recent crash test videos. The crash test dummies are sitting a proper distance away from the airbag for their height. And this is what you should practice. You will notice in these videos that the human 'substitutes' begin their rapid deceleration, the airbag deploys and gives them more time to decelerate before possibly hitting something hard. It's violent, it's unpleasant, it may break your nose and burn your hands, but you will be alive. You will not go through the windshield and you will not make a face shaped imprint on your dashboard.
Seat belts are your first line of defense. Airbags are your supplemental restraint. Drive safe, use them both.
02-04-08, 11:50 AM
#66
becaue the bumper and some wheel wel **** was hitting the front tire.
I was traveling in a straight line at about 45 and he turned left comming from the opposite direction, I went to threashholf braking for probably about 20 feel and HE layed on the gas while driveing into the side of me, he was only going about 10-20 or so (doing a wide left turn).
And upon impact my throttle went to WOT, yes, it stick open and the tach pegged out. One of my friends showed up and helped me pry the hood open and i disconnected the cruise controll at the scene and drove it off!
That was scary though, it it had been an auto tranny that could have been bad, luckily i had the clutch in.
And yes, the cruise controll was properly functining and mounted before the wreck.
What an *******, that car was soo clean
I was traveling in a straight line at about 45 and he turned left comming from the opposite direction, I went to threashholf braking for probably about 20 feel and HE layed on the gas while driveing into the side of me, he was only going about 10-20 or so (doing a wide left turn).
And upon impact my throttle went to WOT, yes, it stick open and the tach pegged out. One of my friends showed up and helped me pry the hood open and i disconnected the cruise controll at the scene and drove it off!
That was scary though, it it had been an auto tranny that could have been bad, luckily i had the clutch in.
And yes, the cruise controll was properly functining and mounted before the wreck.
What an *******, that car was soo clean
02-04-08, 01:32 PM
#67
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Even then, stability control and ABS can't change physics. (And ABS will ALWAYS stop slower than being right on the threshold). All of the safety features in the world are still no substitute for a good and attentive driver behind the wheel.
Like I said before, its like buying a house because its extra well fireproofed. Sure, you don't plan on burning your house down, but lots of stupid people still manage to, and if leave your gas stove running, it won't matter how fireproof it is because its still going to burn down. Same thing with car accidents, sure you can look like the stay-puft marshmallow man after an accident, but if you get T-boned by a Hummer it won't matter. Driving defensively with a nimble car with good tires is the best safety system out there. That or an Excursion, where you always win those pesky collision problems.
02-04-08, 02:50 PM
#69
However, I believe that failing to train yourself in safe driving techniques is a willful threat to everyone else in harm's way due to your lack of preparation. That is why I honk at anyone who presents an unnecessary hazard.
02-04-08, 04:29 PM
#70
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Sigh, i wish normal daily driver can also heighten their driving skills. No matter how safe one driver is, there's the other 1,000+ drivers out on the street that's u'll encounter. Maybe they should make it mandatory to have 25hr of driving w/ an teacher not parent cuz there are many out there that don't care.
02-04-08, 05:59 PM
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ha, i remember that movie, can't remember what it was, but it had wesley snipes and Stallone in it, and it was in that wierd police cruiser thing.
02-04-08, 06:20 PM
#74
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I had an accident involving airbags and no injury. My arm felt a little stiff afterward but that's it. I was only going about 10mph but still the airbag deployed and the car was considered a total loss because the passenger side airbag shattered the windshield. Stupid cavaliers.