FC Owner's Fued: Could this be too much oil?
You're all asses.
11-08-07, 10:47 PM
#28
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i've always thought that adding premix even with a working omp would help raise compression not foul the plugs. i noticed that my car ran stronger after using premix without a doubt though probably mainly bc my seals were bad.
11-09-07, 08:12 AM
#29
Marvel Mystery oil is snake oil.
I still really have no idea what its intended purpose is - it claims to be so many things - of which many are contradictory - when in reality nothing can prevent wear. Its like an all purpose cleaner that claims to clean windows, toilets and babies all while making your dashboard have a lasting gleam. It simply can't do all that - its bullshit and you're buying into it.
If you want to lube you apex seals - use premix. Its deigned for this exact purpose. However - if your MOP system is still functiong your are gaining absolutely nothing from adding premix to your gas aside from another small purchase you need to make and the strange looks from people at the pumps.
If you want to premix - remove the MOP. Sure, you can do both, but there is no benefit at all. In fact - all the benefits of premixing (the major one being zero carbon build up) are negated because you're still injecting ENGINE OIL into the combustion chamber since the MOP is still there.....and you're still building carbon on the rotor faces as a result.
As far as the revving up before shutdown goes - its function and result is the exact same as a fuel pump switch. You are simply bleeding excess fuel pressure from the system that would normally be stagnant while the car sat and bleed through your leaky injectors. Its a preventative measure that many people don't even need to do since often times flooding is caused by botched starts. ANd even if your scenario is one where you actually have leaky injectors that cause flooding or low compression that causes flooding - either of those methods are only bandaids and do not adress the actual problem with the vehicle.
This whole thread fails miserably.
I still really have no idea what its intended purpose is - it claims to be so many things - of which many are contradictory - when in reality nothing can prevent wear. Its like an all purpose cleaner that claims to clean windows, toilets and babies all while making your dashboard have a lasting gleam. It simply can't do all that - its bullshit and you're buying into it.
If you want to lube you apex seals - use premix. Its deigned for this exact purpose. However - if your MOP system is still functiong your are gaining absolutely nothing from adding premix to your gas aside from another small purchase you need to make and the strange looks from people at the pumps.
If you want to premix - remove the MOP. Sure, you can do both, but there is no benefit at all. In fact - all the benefits of premixing (the major one being zero carbon build up) are negated because you're still injecting ENGINE OIL into the combustion chamber since the MOP is still there.....and you're still building carbon on the rotor faces as a result.
As far as the revving up before shutdown goes - its function and result is the exact same as a fuel pump switch. You are simply bleeding excess fuel pressure from the system that would normally be stagnant while the car sat and bleed through your leaky injectors. Its a preventative measure that many people don't even need to do since often times flooding is caused by botched starts. ANd even if your scenario is one where you actually have leaky injectors that cause flooding or low compression that causes flooding - either of those methods are only bandaids and do not adress the actual problem with the vehicle.
This whole thread fails miserably.
11-09-07, 09:26 AM
#31
Marvel Mystery oil is snake oil.
I still really have no idea what its intended purpose is - it claims to be so many things - of which many are contradictory - when in reality nothing can prevent wear. Its like an all purpose cleaner that claims to clean windows, toilets and babies all while making your dashboard have a lasting gleam. It simply can't do all that - its bullshit and you're buying into it.
If you want to lube you apex seals - use premix. Its deigned for this exact purpose. However - if your MOP system is still functiong your are gaining absolutely nothing from adding premix to your gas aside from another small purchase you need to make and the strange looks from people at the pumps.
If you want to premix - remove the MOP. Sure, you can do both, but there is no benefit at all. In fact - all the benefits of premixing (the major one being zero carbon build up) are negated because you're still injecting ENGINE OIL into the combustion chamber since the MOP is still there.....and you're still building carbon on the rotor faces as a result.
As far as the revving up before shutdown goes - its function and result is the exact same as a fuel pump switch. You are simply bleeding excess fuel pressure from the system that would normally be stagnant while the car sat and bleed through your leaky injectors. Its a preventative measure that many people don't even need to do since often times flooding is caused by botched starts. ANd even if your scenario is one where you actually have leaky injectors that cause flooding or low compression that causes flooding - either of those methods are only bandaids and do not adress the actual problem with the vehicle.
This whole thread fails miserably.
I still really have no idea what its intended purpose is - it claims to be so many things - of which many are contradictory - when in reality nothing can prevent wear. Its like an all purpose cleaner that claims to clean windows, toilets and babies all while making your dashboard have a lasting gleam. It simply can't do all that - its bullshit and you're buying into it.
If you want to lube you apex seals - use premix. Its deigned for this exact purpose. However - if your MOP system is still functiong your are gaining absolutely nothing from adding premix to your gas aside from another small purchase you need to make and the strange looks from people at the pumps.
If you want to premix - remove the MOP. Sure, you can do both, but there is no benefit at all. In fact - all the benefits of premixing (the major one being zero carbon build up) are negated because you're still injecting ENGINE OIL into the combustion chamber since the MOP is still there.....and you're still building carbon on the rotor faces as a result.
As far as the revving up before shutdown goes - its function and result is the exact same as a fuel pump switch. You are simply bleeding excess fuel pressure from the system that would normally be stagnant while the car sat and bleed through your leaky injectors. Its a preventative measure that many people don't even need to do since often times flooding is caused by botched starts. ANd even if your scenario is one where you actually have leaky injectors that cause flooding or low compression that causes flooding - either of those methods are only bandaids and do not adress the actual problem with the vehicle.
This whole thread fails miserably.
11-09-07, 09:53 AM
#32
Engine, Not Motor
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So 'GXLguy', he has the stock OMP hooked up, and he add's about 8 ounces of Marvel Mystery Oil to his tank every time he fills up from empty. 'Streetport-dude' keeps telling me how it's giving 'GXLs' engine too much oil, decreasing 'GXLs' hp and what not.
And I searched a little about this, but I can't find much; 'Streetport-dude' rev's to around 2K then shuts the engine off, because he say's its good. And 'GXLguy' say's it's making it more prone to flooding. Help here too?
The premixing is fully legit. While the S4 Oil Metering Pump is bulletproof in design, the O-rings that keep it all sealed up are plain-jane and fail over time like any other gasket on any other car. It's just how it works. So while the pump may be funcitioning properly, it's leaking a fair bit of oil out all over the motor and ground and not going into your engine.
Premixing is a safety net of sorts against such a condition, as it helps to keep good lubrication up. Also, MMO breaks down carbon and cleans out your fuel system quite well in my personal experience with the stuff.
This is a fuel injected motor. When you prod the throttle, the ECU tells the injectors to spit more fuel into the motor (Air is involved, obviously) to increase power through revolutions per minute. So if you stab the gas, more fuel is injected and the motor begins to rev...but cutting the ignition kills the ECU controlling that fuel and kills the spark that's supposed to be burning that extra fuel.
Ergo, you've just injected a ton of fuel into the motor and then only burned some of it off, but leave an excess because you killed the spark.
Ergo, you've just injected a ton of fuel into the motor and then only burned some of it off, but leave an excess because you killed the spark.
Furthermore, revving before shut down on a low compression motor, I'm still against that because it makes little sense to me. Someone correct me on that if I'm wrong, by all means.
11-09-07, 12:07 PM
#33
MMO is just wax and a few solvents. It's about the worst thing you can premix with besides urine. It's not even an oil.
It helps prevent flooding. The actual technique is to rev to about 2-2.5K, key the car off, then floor the accelerator as the engine spins down. This flushes the engine with air and cleans out excess fuel.
Take an old metering oil pump apart and look at how it's constructed. Regardless of how much those o-rings may leak, they will not starve the injectors of oil.
MMO is "wax mud" (to quote Icemark). Look at the material safety data sheet if you don't believe me.
Ignoring the accelerator pump, the EFI system doesn't dump "extra" fuel into the engine. At 2K with no load, injector times are barely above idle.
You're wrong.
It helps prevent flooding. The actual technique is to rev to about 2-2.5K, key the car off, then floor the accelerator as the engine spins down. This flushes the engine with air and cleans out excess fuel.
Take an old metering oil pump apart and look at how it's constructed. Regardless of how much those o-rings may leak, they will not starve the injectors of oil.
MMO is "wax mud" (to quote Icemark). Look at the material safety data sheet if you don't believe me.
Ignoring the accelerator pump, the EFI system doesn't dump "extra" fuel into the engine. At 2K with no load, injector times are barely above idle.
You're wrong.
That's the way you learn.
MMO is my fuckbuddy though, so shut your filfthy mouth.
11-09-07, 12:54 PM
#35
His motor is pretty much a fresh rebuild. He mentioned no leaky injectors or past flooding issues, and if I sound like a bitch for saying it, his compression sure as hell should be dandy with all the hype he gives the thing...
That being said, his revving is a waste of gas - an unneccessary step.
MMO as premix:
I've done my share of research. Like the Banjo Bolt Modification, it's controversial as ****. Half the party says it's awful, half the party swears by it.
On both issues, I've experienced no ill effects whatsoever.
Since I've been premixing with MMO, it all seems kosher.
Until there is some scientific evidence supporting that it's bad, I've no reason to vouch that it's hurting anything.
I've used MMO as an oil and gas additive in several cars, ranging in variety from a 2005 Honda CR-V, a '95 Acura Integra, an MKII Jetta 1.8, an '02 Silverado, a '93 Escort, a '95 Escort, two '86 RX-7s and a '74 Volkswagen Transporter.
Only good things have happened.
And again, I do know of a few people that stand for MMO and included are people who premix with the stuff.
I respect the opinions of those who know more than I do, but there is a lack of evidentiary support on the matter. Unlike 'streetport guy', who simply thinks he knows absolutely everything and just ignorantly shrugs off those more intelligent than him.
I am unable to find the original thread from about two years ago that changed my mind about the rev shut down. Because I had originally read on Nopistons that it was good when I got my first RX-7 two years ago. Then, when I joined 7club, I had come across a thread that said it was a bad thing on a stock car with the stock fuel injection computer, because it 'loads up' the motor and then killing the spark and leaving excess gas lying around.
To complete my post...
The only way to learn is to listen to those more intelligent than yourself and then cross-reference that information with more facts and opinions.
I'm man enough to admit when I'm wrong.
11-09-07, 01:08 PM
#36
Engine, Not Motor
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Putting a little wax, acitone and benzene into the tank isn't generally going to cause a major issue since those are already components of gasoline. But I'd be very interested in hearing perfect and undeniable scientific proof that MMO specifically caused those "good things" to happen.
11-09-07, 06:29 PM
#38
Putting a little wax, acitone and benzene into the tank isn't generally going to cause a major issue since those are already components of gasoline. But I'd be very interested in hearing perfect and undeniable scientific proof that MMO specifically caused those "good things" to happen.
11-09-07, 06:31 PM
#39
Putting a little wax, acitone and benzene into the tank isn't generally going to cause a major issue since those are already components of gasoline. But I'd be very interested in hearing perfect and undeniable scientific proof that MMO specifically caused those "good things" to happen.
No one said that there was 'undeniable scientific proof'. However, the alleged effects of the MMO only happened after I started to use it.
I actually stated in a previous post that until there is no 'undeniable scientific proof' that the stuff is either good or bad, I see no reason to stop using it, as my experience with the stuff is great.
Now, moderator or not, Aaron, you're pushing your limit.
11-09-07, 06:48 PM
#41
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Replace the OMP lines and injectors (if they are bad), rebuild the omp and check it with the FSM to make sure it works.
After that......
FORGET ABOUT PREMIXING!!!!!
Way to hyped up, if you feel you want to get 2 stroke on your hands every fill up, go ahead but don't ever think you are actually doing any good by premixing while you have a good OMP system.
Don't come back to me saying "what if your OMP system is not working" cause im just going to say what I said in my first sentence. The OMP system lubricates the seals directly, premixing is not as effective. You best bet would be to convert the OMP to inject 2 stroke. Other than that, considering rotaries last 150K-200K+ miles with the stock OMP system, there is no need to be paranoid.
If you have leaky injectors, reving it and shutting it off will NOT do anything since the injectors will still leak into the chamber anyways after its shut off.
After that......
FORGET ABOUT PREMIXING!!!!!
Way to hyped up, if you feel you want to get 2 stroke on your hands every fill up, go ahead but don't ever think you are actually doing any good by premixing while you have a good OMP system.
Don't come back to me saying "what if your OMP system is not working" cause im just going to say what I said in my first sentence. The OMP system lubricates the seals directly, premixing is not as effective. You best bet would be to convert the OMP to inject 2 stroke. Other than that, considering rotaries last 150K-200K+ miles with the stock OMP system, there is no need to be paranoid.
If you have leaky injectors, reving it and shutting it off will NOT do anything since the injectors will still leak into the chamber anyways after its shut off.
11-09-07, 06:48 PM
#42
less valvetrain noise that's like saying vagisil helped your bad breath.
Get the injectors cleaned, fix your OMP (if you're really concerned you'll test it first), change your plugs/O2 sensor as recommended, make sure your auxilary ports open and that you're not leaking anything instead of adding things that won't fix your problem. You're applying a new bandaid to keep the dam from bursting but you haven't even checked it''s integrity.
You can argue till you're blue in the face but additives will never replace GOOD maintenance. If you maintain your car then it will not need additives to get you better MPG, less "valvetrain" noise, and any other "benefits" it might say you'll get.
Now please excuse me, I'm going to go to Kragen's to get the NOS additive for my car and then to the liquor store to get the NOS drink for me.
that's like saying vagisil helped your bad breath.Get the injectors cleaned, fix your OMP (if you're really concerned you'll test it first), change your plugs/O2 sensor as recommended, make sure your auxilary ports open and that you're not leaking anything instead of adding things that won't fix your problem. You're applying a new bandaid to keep the dam from bursting but you haven't even checked it''s integrity.
You can argue till you're blue in the face but additives will never replace GOOD maintenance. If you maintain your car then it will not need additives to get you better MPG, less "valvetrain" noise
, and any other "benefits" it might say you'll get.Now please excuse me, I'm going to go to Kragen's to get the NOS additive for my car and then to the liquor store to get the NOS drink for me.
11-09-07, 06:54 PM
#43
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Now, moderator or not, Aaron, you're pushing your limit.
killed some valvetrain noise
You can argue till you're blue in the face but additives will never replace GOOD maintenance. If you maintain your car then it will not need additives to get you better MPG, less "valvetrain" noise , and any other "benefits" it might say you'll get.
11-10-07, 11:01 AM
#44
Engine, Not Motor
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Though dumping some acetone into you tank has shown to increase mileage, so I suspect that's where you are seeing the increase. The same effect would be created by just straight acetone, and probably cheaper then MMO.
Based on the components of MMO, I would suspect that lifter noise was quieted due to the wax content. Of course, at the same time it is also starving those components for lubrication. It could also be that the lifter noise did not signal a problem and nothing was "cured".
I actually stated in a previous post that until there is no 'undeniable scientific proof' that the stuff is either good or bad, I see no reason to stop using it, as my experience with the stuff is great.
http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/legal/index.html
I cannot find MMO on the FTC site, but I am thinking that's because they don't actually make any extraordinary claims for their product.
It's not my place to tell you what not to use in your car. If you want to keep using MMO, be my guest. I just want others to see the other side of the story. There are billions of vehicles out there running fine due to the magic of regular maintenance and not the benefit of magical additives. And of course, if the additives were go good then they would already be included in the fuel/oil.
Now, moderator or not, Aaron, you're pushing your limit.
02-10-08, 09:52 PM
#47
i drove my 2nd rx-7 a turbo II around for 2 weeks! on one rotor
that bitch only flooded out on me the first time(that i didn't kill on engine decel)
and the last time, at which i just pushed the car the 2 feet i needed to move it under the hoist
.
02-11-08, 12:19 PM
#48
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Wiki Acetone, or better Gas Mileage.
Investigate adding Acetone - goto http://www.lubedev.com/articles/tips.htm
I've been using Acetone ('04 Rx-8) for almost a year no problem - unless you mind improved performance on lower octane!
Investigate adding Acetone - goto http://www.lubedev.com/articles/tips.htm
I've been using Acetone ('04 Rx-8) for almost a year no problem - unless you mind improved performance on lower octane!
02-11-08, 01:19 PM
#50
My engine used to flood like crazy on my first car. Leave it sitting for mor than 20 minutes after shut down, and id have to do the extensive deflooding procedure.
Started revving to 3k and then turning off the key when getting out of the car, hardly ever flooded when i did that.
So there you go, a real world test.
Edit: DAMN this is an old thread, i already posted this once here.
Started revving to 3k and then turning off the key when getting out of the car, hardly ever flooded when i did that.
So there you go, a real world test.
Edit: DAMN this is an old thread, i already posted this once here.