F*ing SH*T ---urgent---- MOP/OMP Pics !!! BAD!
04-05-02, 04:00 PM
#26
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Originally posted by HAILERS
Just a little note here about the oil injectors and the black spider the vac lines from the top of the injectors go to. The vacuum is not from the intake manifold. Its from the injectors themseles.
The rotors are sucking air thru the black spider FROM the throttle body. In other words the flow of air is FROM the throttle body TO the oil injector and into the combustion chamber or rotor housing. Pure trivia. Don't ask me why, please. My head hurts everytime Irv explains it to me.humor
Just a little note here about the oil injectors and the black spider the vac lines from the top of the injectors go to. The vacuum is not from the intake manifold. Its from the injectors themseles.
The rotors are sucking air thru the black spider FROM the throttle body. In other words the flow of air is FROM the throttle body TO the oil injector and into the combustion chamber or rotor housing. Pure trivia. Don't ask me why, please. My head hurts everytime Irv explains it to me.humor
But WHY did they make it this way?
04-05-02, 04:24 PM
#28
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HA! I see the old thread I linked to is back up.
After about 2 hours NOW, the lines are all full of oil and look good
.
Whatever's happening, must take at least 12hrs.
After about 2 hours NOW, the lines are all full of oil and look good
. Whatever's happening, must take at least 12hrs.
04-05-02, 04:50 PM
#29
Lava Surfer
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hmm...maybe this is a problem like it is with piston engines too. if oil gets there but isnt there right at the beginning then dont rev the engine or anything right after startup. its bad for a piston engine to rev right after startup because its not lubricated and warmed up yet, maybe this is a similarity with the rotary?
does this sound logical or am i being an idiot again?
does this sound logical or am i being an idiot again?
04-05-02, 09:33 PM
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Ok, after examining the oil diagram in the Haynes/FSM at 400% zoom, the order of the lines as seen from my pics go (from LEFT TO RIGHT):
Front rotor, IM
Rear rotor, IM
Rear rotor, Housing
Front rotor, Housing
So, the "air line" goes to the front rotor intake manifold. The middle 2 should be the biggest concern since they goto the rear rotor.
Front rotor, IM
Rear rotor, IM
Rear rotor, Housing
Front rotor, Housing
So, the "air line" goes to the front rotor intake manifold. The middle 2 should be the biggest concern since they goto the rear rotor.
04-06-02, 01:10 AM
#36
Rotary Freak
Okay, My post was understood "partially"....
Ok ok ok....
I posted the thread in question because the air in the lines is a sign of imminent oil injector failure.
NOT OMP failure.
The two are seperate problems, and have nothing to do with each other.
By injector failure, i mean , that if you inspect the injector closelyin your hand, you will see that you can blow in it in one direction, and also draw air in the other.
This is improper operation for an oil injector.
They should allow air to pass only ONE way in the vaccum line attached to it (when you blow)...
If you have air in the line after only a few hours of sitting, then you probably have an injector whose vavle is open both ways.
>>>If you have air in a line while the engine is running, the OMP is bad.<<<
The OIL travelling to the injector, however, is a different part of the injector.
A closed system between the OMP and the injector.
The air will normally go away once the car is started, but it'll naturally take a few minutes longer to clear the air, pressurize and start to spray oil, than the ones that hold oil in their lines.
(always black)
I replaced all my oil injectors with new ones.
The oil lines were solid black for 24+ hours after that.
Only now, after I leave the car for long periods sitting, will there be air in the lines.
This is normal, it cant hold suction on that oil forever.
The main thing is to make sure that the injectors vaccum line only allows air to pass 1 way when you blow on the vaccum nipple on the back of the injector.
If you can draw air backwards, then its not injecting as much oil as it was designed to into that part of the rotor housing.
This is due to the pressures of vaccum and compression on that chamber that it is firing into, and it will force air into the vaccum spider where it should not be.
This sets up an imbalance in the vaccum system.
Witch, as we know, a unstable manufold vaccum causes stumbling and poor idle.
I will post a method to test the impact your leaking injectors has on vaccum one day soon when I find a single point of connection for that part of the spider.
If you were to block off this section of the spider for a moment, (which would block off the pulsation damper and oil injector vaccum system), you should see that it idles just a hair more smoothly with well sealed injectors.
I posted the thread in question because the air in the lines is a sign of imminent oil injector failure.
NOT OMP failure.
The two are seperate problems, and have nothing to do with each other.
By injector failure, i mean , that if you inspect the injector closelyin your hand, you will see that you can blow in it in one direction, and also draw air in the other.
This is improper operation for an oil injector.
They should allow air to pass only ONE way in the vaccum line attached to it (when you blow)...
If you have air in the line after only a few hours of sitting, then you probably have an injector whose vavle is open both ways.
>>>If you have air in a line while the engine is running, the OMP is bad.<<<
The OIL travelling to the injector, however, is a different part of the injector.
A closed system between the OMP and the injector.
The air will normally go away once the car is started, but it'll naturally take a few minutes longer to clear the air, pressurize and start to spray oil, than the ones that hold oil in their lines.
(always black)
I replaced all my oil injectors with new ones.
The oil lines were solid black for 24+ hours after that.
Only now, after I leave the car for long periods sitting, will there be air in the lines.
This is normal, it cant hold suction on that oil forever.
The main thing is to make sure that the injectors vaccum line only allows air to pass 1 way when you blow on the vaccum nipple on the back of the injector.
If you can draw air backwards, then its not injecting as much oil as it was designed to into that part of the rotor housing.
This is due to the pressures of vaccum and compression on that chamber that it is firing into, and it will force air into the vaccum spider where it should not be.
This sets up an imbalance in the vaccum system.
Witch, as we know, a unstable manufold vaccum causes stumbling and poor idle.
I will post a method to test the impact your leaking injectors has on vaccum one day soon when I find a single point of connection for that part of the spider.
If you were to block off this section of the spider for a moment, (which would block off the pulsation damper and oil injector vaccum system), you should see that it idles just a hair more smoothly with well sealed injectors.
04-06-02, 08:44 AM
#38
HAILERS
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More trivia....if you ever take a dremel motor to one and take it apart, you'll find that really sturdy check valve right there in the top of it. Its made out of flimsy rubber and is like a poppet. It has a thin stalk that plugs the air nipple if there is pressure on the engine side. One that fails will really gulp oil on you. Just carry a extra couple of quarts on a road trip.
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