hvaltierra

iTrader: (2)

i have a noise i cant figure out. i t happens at wot and when the boost gauge is pegged to the top not sure how much boost im making. its a 89 tII with a mind train exhaust and a generic cone filter everything else is stock. just like i described above. the best way i can describe it is if you flick one of the front fenders on an fc with your finger thats what it sounds like but its inside the exhaust. like a metalic ping. anyone got an idea

SpeedOfLife

iTrader: (16)

Install a boost gauge to see how high the pressure is actually getting. Pinging, I've read, is often associated with detonation of which rotaries tolerate very little (DETONATION = BAD). Since you have aftermarket exhaust you're likely pushing higher than stock boost, and there's a point where the ECU, if it sees too high of pressure, will cut fuel which is dangerous to the motor under boost.

What other modifications do you have? You should probably look into getting a boost controller, possibly a fuel cut defender, and if you get/have an aftermarket ECU maybe larger secondary injectors if you intend to keep running 10+psi

10yearrx7

iTrader: (2)

It's detonation....we had it right after installing a full turbo back exhaust. you have probably already damaged an apex seal....get a fuel cut defender and a boost controller.

Bamato

iTrader: (6)

I'd recommend an Rtek 1.7 chip, 750 secondaries, boost gauge, and wideband.

RotaryRocket88

iTrader: (7)

Pinging = detonation.

Besides what's already been said, pick up an FD fuel pump if yours is still stock. The TII pump's flow drops off sharply once your increase fuel pressure at all (1:1 ratio with boost increases). You also won't get an FPR overrun like you will with a walbro or other high flow pump.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

or hit me up when the motor starts shaking violently, i'll tell you how to fix it!

slapping parts onto a turbo engine without any foresight= bad idea...

TrboSpdAnt

iTrader: (5)

Hm... .Where is your boost gauge vac'ed to? Is it on the TB, the UIM or the compressor, directly? Are you running any kind of boost control, other than the Fuel-cut in the ECU?

If 'no' on the latter, GET ONE!

I'd have to say to go with an RTek or something similar. Bigger injectors and some tuning will help combat your possibility of detonation (well... Any ADDITIONAL detonation) and help your engine to not hork up an apex seal. With the proper amount of tuning, you'll see what the ACTUAL potential of your engine is.

You have an AFR gauge? That'd be kind of worth investing in, as well. You can get that before going with any tuning (only since it's a TON cheaper than the RTek and will give you a nice idea of how bad the situation is).

As far as the FCD is concerned, that won't help you. The FCD is designed to combat the ECU from cutting fuel from your rear rotor when getting into excessive boost. Installing one does two different things: Enables more boost to be shoved into the engine, and prevents the boost-cut from coming in, since you'll have the fuel to support it.

If you're already getting into the sharky waters of detonation, an FCD won't help you, since you're already boosting to the point of cutting out (and detonating) there-in making trouble at a LITTLE boost. Adding that will let in BIGGER boost and larger problems.

"Warning: Turbo Rotary, Watch for flying Apex seals!"

@Karack: I've seen quite a few engines doing that, odd, almost, 'unbalanced,' wobble. Known cause?

HoustonMS3

"As far as the FCD is concerned, that won't help you" this is absolutely incorrect, right?

Wait, without the FCD he will boost cut and loose fuel therefore go lean resulting in almost 100% chance of detonation regardless of any fuel upgrades.

FCD solution and boost gauge would be my priority number one.

"TON cheaper than the RTek" Rtek 1.5 is like $100 and removes fuel cut, cold warm up high idle, kicks in secondaries faster, and some other things I'm forgetting. Im all for an AFR wideband kit, but you can't buy one that's not a piece of **** for $100.

RotaryRocket88

iTrader: (7)

^ Fuel cut at 8.6 psi is MUCH better than allowing a stock fueled engine to boost creep to 10+ psi. When fuel cut happens, injector duty cycle goes to 0 on the rear rotor. No fuel at all will be injected, which means no combustion and no chance of detonation.

Add an FCD to an otherwise stock engine, and now you'll be able to boost creep to dangerous pressure levels, which will absolutely lead to detonation.

SpeedOfLife

iTrader: (16)

That's assuming that every last drop of fuel from the last cycle goes into the chambers, but what about the secondary injectors that are so far up the intake path?

In any case OP, you clearly don't want this behavior from your car and must take measures to stop it.

hvaltierra

iTrader: (2)

thanks for the advise guys. looks like im going to get the fuel pump first. my plan was to get the fuel pump injectors bnr stage 2 and an rtek with tax money but i just bought some new bfg's kdw and had to spend another 1k on my bike to get it running before april. oh and a fcd to go with the pump for now. oh ya this is how you know you need tires

RotaryRocket88

iTrader: (7)

If you're having fuel pooling issues from poor atomization I could see the possibility, but a clean set of injectors with diffusers should not lead to that. With the amount of air being drawn in by the high vacuum, I don't think injector position makes that big of a difference. A TB mounted injector sure, but not something inches from the ports.

Look at it this way. Fuel is cut to one or both rotors on deceleration (depending on throttle position). Is the engine going to detonate if you load it up, then let off abruptly? A lot of factory turbo cars use fuel cut to prevent overboost. I think the fear of engine damage mostly comes from how harsh it can feel.

TrboSpdAnt

iTrader: (5)

Thanks for the more in-depth explaination, RR88.

I actually took my Knight Sports FCD off of my Project car, for the same reason(s).

I'd rather hit the safety gate LOWER in the gauge, rather than later, given the amount of boost that can potentially detonate my engine is greatly reduced - versus leaving things to chance at 10+ #.

Since the RTek upgrades for 1.5 and 1.7 run from $120 to just over $150 (NTM with or without MOP installation), That COULD be a good option, minus that there're already issues and adding any ability to lift a safety feature that's built into the OEM ECU is a possibility for disaster.

Best option is to compression check the engine, ASAFP, hope that you're reading about 90 on all faces (since there's no telling the milage/ abuse on the engine, ATM, and go from there.

If two of your faces are reading lower than the rest, you're guaranteed to have apex seal issues. If you don't, sacrifice a small virgin goat to the rotary gods, in thanks, and go after the RTek, a boost-gauge and perhaps a good boost controller...

THEN invest in good injectors, etc. (Walbro 255 and some decent injectors)

hvaltierra

iTrader: (2)

well heres a back ground on the car. its a stock ported 13b 3rd gen seals and springs. it has about 30k roughly on the rebuild compression on the front rotors read at 103.7 and the rear was 104.1. i have the read outs from motec which was done on 7/23/2010. previous owner works for motec. i have every recept he spent money on down to the nitrile gloves he bought from napa. the wiring is redone and simplified. the injectors were cleaned4/30/2003 so i know i have a good starting point to build on. come to think of it i think i started having this problem after i put the cone filter on. i think im going to put the stock air box back on with a k&n drop in filter in it and see what happenes

TrboSpdAnt

iTrader: (5)

Hm... So it's POSSIBLE it's not as bad as thought. I mean, yeah, you should be concerned, but not like the engine has a kaBILLION miles on it, and/ or it's internals are all OEM.

When were the seals done? I mean in reference to the current mileage?

Compression numbers: Uhm... Aren't you missing some numbers? I guess some people read the highest point in the compression, but I've always done it as 3 numbers (you know? 3 faces?). Reading '103.7' and '104.1' just looks really odd to me. Did the readout give a series of 6 numbers - 3 front faces and 3 rear? Not saying that you're wrong or the numbers aren't right, I've just always ended up with 6 numbers when I've comp'd my engines, so that's why I ask.

If you're concerned it's a seal, compression check that puppy and you'll know, sure as snail poop.

hvaltierra

iTrader: (2)

ok i ordered my fuel pump 255. can the stock fpr handle it or would i need a replacement

KompressorLOgic

iTrader: (6)

why dont you port your waste gate to stop the boost creep also?

TrboSpdAnt

iTrader: (5)

I've heard mixed reviews about the OEM FPR, relating to greatly increased FP levels; HP levels varying.

If it's too much of a stretch, upgrading to a better FPR is always a good idea, but you shouldn't have to if your injectors are up to the task.

I'm making mid-level power (comparable to OEM, since I'm not running any active aftermarket tuning or boost), and have the OEM 550 injectors, fed by a 255.

Now if you're talking about making much more than stock power, then sure, upgrade your fuel system and get it over with.

All you ever really have to look at are the principles: Air, Fuel Spark (assuming compression is around present). Increasing all three in proportion will always equal better; to a point, that is. Tuning is the end-result of all good builds, regardless of the power-plant.

I like the fact that you're trying to be thorough, though. I mean, you could just Betty Crocker (whip up) some ****, in a weekend and get it over with, but, just like making pastries, you gotta take yer time...

You're building your baby, right? How long's it take for a kid to be born? 9mos? Yeah. Building a baby takes time...

Try to rush it and you end up with defects.

I'm about to start another build on an S6 R1 and while it COULD be a quick endeavor, the likelihood is that it'll take a couple of weeks, on the short side.

Porting the WG will help, some, but if there's an AFR issue, that won't help so much. It WILL help combat boost-creep and the turbo to spool a little quicker, but the AFRs are the biggest problem.