Ethanol
05-01-06, 06:25 PM
#53
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Originally Posted by J-Rat
First, ethanol was going to drive up the price of bacon
i think thats the funniest thing i've ever readon this forum!
i seriously laughed out loud for like 3 mins
05-01-06, 06:58 PM
#54
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alright, this is straight out of the manual for my 86 gxl na:
"Gasohol, a mixture of gasoline and ehtanol (also known as grain alcohol), and gasoline or gasohol containing methanol (also known as wood alcohol) are being marketed in various places in the country along with or instead of leaded or unleaded gasoline. You are requested not to use gasohol containing more than 10% ethanol, or any gasoline or gasohol containing methanol as the fuel for your Mazda, because the use of such fuel may cause problems in driveability and damage the fuel system. Discontinue using gasohol when driveability problems occur, even if the gasohol contains less than 10% ethanol."
"Gasohol, a mixture of gasoline and ehtanol (also known as grain alcohol), and gasoline or gasohol containing methanol (also known as wood alcohol) are being marketed in various places in the country along with or instead of leaded or unleaded gasoline. You are requested not to use gasohol containing more than 10% ethanol, or any gasoline or gasohol containing methanol as the fuel for your Mazda, because the use of such fuel may cause problems in driveability and damage the fuel system. Discontinue using gasohol when driveability problems occur, even if the gasohol contains less than 10% ethanol."
05-01-06, 07:21 PM
#55
Originally Posted by Fitness Stain
i think thats the funniest thing i've ever readon this forum!
i seriously laughed out loud for like 3 mins
i seriously laughed out loud for like 3 mins
Thats HAILERS' theory. He is under the impression the widespread use of Ethanol will drive up the price of his morning bacon.
05-01-06, 07:49 PM
#56
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Originally Posted by HAILERS
I guareenteeeeee you will not be going as far down the road on a full tank of this ten percent mix as you would on DINO fuel.
Looked at pork prices lately? Dan alky members. Go to The One Step Plan and get off it. Either that or Alcoholics Aynonomus (serious misspell).
Looked at pork prices lately? Dan alky members. Go to The One Step Plan and get off it. Either that or Alcoholics Aynonomus (serious misspell).
As far as I can tell, all Wisconsin gas stations use E10, something Michigan does not yet require. My trip to college, goes from Wisconsin into Michigan, it is 221 miles to the gas station I fill up at. On E10, at an average speed of 63 mph it takes (from my 12 trips up to my school) an average of 9.87 gallons (22.38 mpg) to bring my tank back to completely full, mind you this trip is more of an uphill battle, where I don't always shift into 4th up these steeper hills. My trip home, after I top it off at the station, again (I hate running out, too many bad experiences, call me **** retentive), 221 miles again, same average speeds, a bit more downhill, sometimes taken a bit quicker (but it averages out...), 9.84 gallons (again, this is 12 times averaged), this is an average 22.46 mpg.
Let's see, 22.46-22.38 gives us a difference of *drum roll please* 0.08 miles per gallon. You heard me correctly "zero point zero eight miles per gallon".
So take your theory and rework it a tad, huh?
Last edited by JSmith0101; 05-01-06 at 07:53 PM.
05-01-06, 08:15 PM
#57
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Take a look and see what BRAZIL had to do during a drought. Drought, as in da sugar cane crop didn't come in that year.
Ya'll just are not understanding supply and demand. Example: 10 million Illegal Aliens, mostly Mexican barge into the country. What effect does that have on labor costs? It keeps labor costs down. Actually to the real value in my opinion, but don't tell a AFL/CIO man that. They don't/won't understand. It's the same with corn being used for fuel. The pigs won't get their fair share and the cost of pork will go waaaaay up. Poor piggy.
And don't discount what I said about some bleeding heart complaining about the poor starving Sudanese vs you driving your alky hog RX-7. Poor Sudanese children. Rib cages showing and all.
And about gas mph. Remember, the idea of JRAT and his ALKY GANG is to fuel cars with much more than 10%. They want the E85. Remember what YOUR gov't study said about the 2006 Impala. The milage loss is NOT insignificant. Costs more, goes not as far. What a deal.
Ya'll just are not understanding supply and demand. Example: 10 million Illegal Aliens, mostly Mexican barge into the country. What effect does that have on labor costs? It keeps labor costs down. Actually to the real value in my opinion, but don't tell a AFL/CIO man that. They don't/won't understand. It's the same with corn being used for fuel. The pigs won't get their fair share and the cost of pork will go waaaaay up. Poor piggy.
And don't discount what I said about some bleeding heart complaining about the poor starving Sudanese vs you driving your alky hog RX-7. Poor Sudanese children. Rib cages showing and all.
And about gas mph. Remember, the idea of JRAT and his ALKY GANG is to fuel cars with much more than 10%. They want the E85. Remember what YOUR gov't study said about the 2006 Impala. The milage loss is NOT insignificant. Costs more, goes not as far. What a deal.
05-01-06, 08:20 PM
#58
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Originally Posted by HAILERS
And about gas mph. Remember, the idea of JRAT and his ALKY GANG is to fuel cars with much more than 10%. They want the E85. Remember what YOUR gov't study said about the 2006 Impala. The milage loss is NOT insignificant. Costs more, goes not as far. What a deal.
Suddenly you get a rather solid conclusion that E10 is approximately 0.08% less effiecient and you spout off about E85? You were talking about 10% ethanol, E10, not E85. You have no response because it is so insignificant a fart could change it.
05-01-06, 08:26 PM
#59
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Originally Posted by wotnartd
Suddenly you get a rather solid conclusion that E10 is approximately 0.08% less effiecient and you spout off about E85? You were talking about 10% ethanol, E10, not E85. You have no response because it is so insignificant a fart could change it.
See this for your Hydrogen future: http://www.ballard.com/be_informed/f...chnology_works
Invest in BALLARD.
05-01-06, 08:36 PM
#60
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Originally Posted by HAILERS
Because the GOAL IS E85. They're not content with E10. That is NOT JRAT'S goal. And as you can see, it's no bargain.
See this for your Hydrogen future: http://www.ballard.com/be_informed/f...chnology_works
Invest in BALLARD.
See this for your Hydrogen future: http://www.ballard.com/be_informed/f...chnology_works
Invest in BALLARD.
05-01-06, 08:48 PM
#61
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its true, the more ethanol you run, the less miles per gallon BUT... ethanol is so much cheaper than gas that it doesnt matter (btw, pure ethanol cars get about 2/3s as many miles per gallon)
however, in the manual it says that ethanol only damages the fuel system, if the rubber seals were removed from the fuel system (and replaced with something else) and the ECU recalibrated, wouldnt rx7s be able to run ethanol?
however, in the manual it says that ethanol only damages the fuel system, if the rubber seals were removed from the fuel system (and replaced with something else) and the ECU recalibrated, wouldnt rx7s be able to run ethanol?
05-01-06, 10:05 PM
#62
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actually, those of you not used to running E10 will run into some problems. It may free up some gunk from your gas tank and impede flow though fuel filters. Might want to change your filters if your area now mandates a 10% blend.
Also, how will the use of ethanol make meat prices go up?? They (the government) pay farmers around here to not plant crops in some cases. They are too efficient at growing soybeans and corn..... that is probably just the case in IL/midwest though.
Internal combustion is inherently inefficient and wasteful, no matter what fuel.
Also, how will the use of ethanol make meat prices go up?? They (the government) pay farmers around here to not plant crops in some cases. They are too efficient at growing soybeans and corn..... that is probably just the case in IL/midwest though.
Internal combustion is inherently inefficient and wasteful, no matter what fuel.
Last edited by BigMike85; 05-01-06 at 10:09 PM.
05-02-06, 12:23 AM
#63
Originally Posted by HAILERS
Because the GOAL IS E85. They're not content with E10. That is NOT JRAT'S goal. And as you can see, it's no bargain.
Okay, hold on..
My goal is to wean the United States of the Oil Producers (OPEC)'s titty. The only SHORT TERM solution to even REDUCING our demand for oil, aside from blowing up all the unnecessary SUV's and Hummers that are trundling around, is to utilize Ethanol and Biodiesel. Dare I even bring up biodiesel? Or will this cause you to rhapsodize about how the price of FRENCH FRIES is going to skyrocket?!?
I dont think that Ethanol is the answer to our prayers, but it is a stop gap measure to reducing foreign oil dependency (not to mention it reduces emissions, and increases octane, but never mind that). Once Hydrogen will come into its own, THEN I will be happy to get on board, but that hasnt happened yet.
Call us the Alchy Gang if you like, but someone has to start the transition to another renewable resource besides what we already have.
Join us! Burn corn for USA!
05-02-06, 07:22 AM
#64
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Originally Posted by BigMike85
Internal combustion is inherently inefficient and wasteful, no matter what fuel.
05-02-06, 10:37 AM
#67
Opinions are like........
Laughing at the debate
The rotary engine is sooooo efficient and clean. You might just want to add rotary powered vehicles to that list that needs blowing up. It a hyprocrisy here sometimes.
E10 isn't here to wean anyone on anything. Its not even a stop gap measure. The whole point was to improve exhaust emissions. MTBE helped but polluted our wells. It'll take a decade before we find all the true 'cons' of that 'green' fuel.
Crops grow with fertilizer and pesticides. Hippie crowd is so narrow minded.
What would I rather have in my drinking water? MTBE or fertilizer/pesticides!
At this rate, We'll all take the water blend(nitrates/DDT/MTBE/whatever....) since the lobbyists are doing nothing but playing 'chemistry kit' with my enviroment!
You want to wean this country off of foreign oil. QUIT DRIVING or just kill yourself! Driving only accounts for less then half of the foreign oil you waste.
E10 isn't here to wean anyone on anything. Its not even a stop gap measure. The whole point was to improve exhaust emissions. MTBE helped but polluted our wells. It'll take a decade before we find all the true 'cons' of that 'green' fuel.
Crops grow with fertilizer and pesticides. Hippie crowd is so narrow minded.
What would I rather have in my drinking water? MTBE or fertilizer/pesticides!
At this rate, We'll all take the water blend(nitrates/DDT/MTBE/whatever....) since the lobbyists are doing nothing but playing 'chemistry kit' with my enviroment!
You want to wean this country off of foreign oil. QUIT DRIVING or just kill yourself! Driving only accounts for less then half of the foreign oil you waste.
05-02-06, 01:55 PM
#68
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There's a guy near me and I guess he makes 10,000 gallons of ethanol a day!!! It's only from 30% of the corn he has for his feed mill, and whatever corn byproducts are left over he turns back into filler for feed. If he wanted this to truly be effiecient, he would use methane from his cows to create energy, to power his ethanol plant, several farms around here do that, so he wouldn't be the first.
05-02-06, 02:47 PM
#69
Originally Posted by deadRX7Conv
The rotary engine is sooooo efficient and clean. You might just want to add rotary powered vehicles to that list that needs blowing up. It a hyprocrisy here sometimes.
WASHINGTON - March 17 - The nation could avoid 1.2 million tons of smog-forming pollution every year if we ended the current pollution loophole for SUVs and other light trucks, according to "Big Cars, Dirty Air," a report released today by U.S. PIRG. Currently, light trucks, such as SUVs, minivans, and pickup trucks, are allowed to emit up to three times as much nitrogen oxide as passenger cars. This year, the EPA is expected to propose new rules for automobile air pollution that could require automakers to make SUVs and other light trucks as clean as passenger cars.
Some more info for ya:
Sport utility vehicles (SUVs), minivans, and other light trucks now constitute half the new passenger vehicles purchased each year. Yet they inflict far greater damage to our environment than cars: 47 percent more smog-forming pollution and 43 percent more global-warming gases. Automakers have taken advantage of a loophole in federal air-quality and fuel-economy requirements that was originally created because of the heavier demands on light trucks. The loopholes for SUVs and minivans has caused:
1.8 million additional tons per year of smog-forming pollutants
237 million additional tons per year of global-warming pollution
18.4 billion additional gallons per year of gasoline use.
1.8 million additional tons per year of smog-forming pollutants
237 million additional tons per year of global-warming pollution
18.4 billion additional gallons per year of gasoline use.
E10 isn't here to wean anyone on anything. Its not even a stop gap measure. The whole point was to improve exhaust emissions.
Proposals to use alcohol as a fuel are generally directed to its use in transportation, chiefly as a total or partial replacement for gasoline in cars and other road vehicles. However, other less conventional approaches have been advanced, such as the use of alcohol in fuel cells, either directly or as a feedstock for hydrogen production.
Here is what MTBE and ETHANOL really do... (also shoots your emissions theory out of the water)
Ethanol in a blend with gasoline replaces tetra ethyl lead, benzene and MTBE, all of which are additives intended to raise octane levels. Ethanol, with an octane rating of 110, far surpasses regular gasoline and precludes the need for additives. However, ethanol can increase the vapor pressure of gasoline causing increased gasoline evaporative emissions.
Hippie crowd is so narrow minded.
You want to wean this country off of foreign oil. QUIT DRIVING or just kill yourself! Driving only accounts for less then half of the foreign oil you waste.
05-02-06, 03:02 PM
#70
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Originally Posted by J-Rat
Interesting...
Oh really? It is? Lets see...
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel
Here is what MTBE and ETHANOL really do... (also shoots your emissions theory out of the water)
Interesting information indeed!
Oh really? It is? Lets see...
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel
Here is what MTBE and ETHANOL really do... (also shoots your emissions theory out of the water)
Interesting information indeed!
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05-02-06, 03:11 PM
#71
Okay:
Source: http://www.ethanolrfa.org/resource/facts/energy/
Source: http://www.iowacorn.org/ethanol/ethanol_3a.html
The United States is increasingly dependent on imported energy to meet our personal, transportation, and industrial needs. Ongoing violence in the Middle East, disruption of oil production in the Gulf of Mexico due to an active hurricane season, and the growing demand for oil from developing nations such as China and India contributed to oil prices exceeding $60 a barrel in 2005. As a domestic, renewable source of energy, ethanol can reduce our dependence on foreign oil and increase the United States' ability to control its own security and economic future by increasing the availability of domestic fuel supplies.
FACT: The U.S. imports 65% its petroleum needs today.
By 2025, the Energy Information Administration (EIA) projects the U.S. will import 71% of its petroleum. And oil prices are not expected to ease soon. EIA estimates oil prices will hover near or above $50/barrel through 2030.
FACT: The U.S. imports 65% its petroleum needs today.
By 2025, the Energy Information Administration (EIA) projects the U.S. will import 71% of its petroleum. And oil prices are not expected to ease soon. EIA estimates oil prices will hover near or above $50/barrel through 2030.
Ethanol reduces the consumer cost of gasoline by extending supplies, providing an alternative to costly imported oil and leverage for independent gasoline marketers to compete against the larger, more powerful integrated oil companies.
Consumers could save approximately $7.8 billion between 2002 and 2016 in the form of reduced government farm payments by expanding their purchases of renewable fuels.
Ethanol production provides close to 200,000 U.S. jobs, spurring growth in many rural areas.
Increased production and use of renewable fuels would create an additional $71 billion in household income over the next 15 years.
Over the next 15 years, 300,000 new jobs could be created through expanded production and use of renewable ethanol blends.
In 2004, the ethanol industry supported the creation of more than 1476 jobs in all sectors of the US economy. Boosting US household income by $4.5 billion.
Ethanol production is the third-largest use of U.S. corn, using 1.3 billion bushels or nearly 13% of grain in 2003.
Consumers could save approximately $7.8 billion between 2002 and 2016 in the form of reduced government farm payments by expanding their purchases of renewable fuels.
Ethanol production provides close to 200,000 U.S. jobs, spurring growth in many rural areas.
Increased production and use of renewable fuels would create an additional $71 billion in household income over the next 15 years.
Over the next 15 years, 300,000 new jobs could be created through expanded production and use of renewable ethanol blends.
In 2004, the ethanol industry supported the creation of more than 1476 jobs in all sectors of the US economy. Boosting US household income by $4.5 billion.
Ethanol production is the third-largest use of U.S. corn, using 1.3 billion bushels or nearly 13% of grain in 2003.
05-02-06, 03:18 PM
#73
lol!
Yeah, and find an anti Ethanol site that isnt biased either.. At least I am citing some sources and bringing numbers to the table, and not spouting some anti hippie rhetoric. Playing the devils advocate must be of some interest to you, but I would appreciate if you come in on whatever side you believe in, instead of shouting from the sidelines..
Here is an interesting site that extolls the viability of MTBE:
Here is the copyright info from the OTHER site I posted:
© 2005 Renewable Fuels Association. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy
One Massachusetts Avenue, NW - Suite 820 - Washington, DC 20001 - (202) 289-3835
On another note, I have to concede that in addition to lowering our demand for foreign oil, Ethanol is also used as an oxygenate to reduce emissions. I retract my statements saying that it was not used for this purpose.
Yeah, and find an anti Ethanol site that isnt biased either.. At least I am citing some sources and bringing numbers to the table, and not spouting some anti hippie rhetoric. Playing the devils advocate must be of some interest to you, but I would appreciate if you come in on whatever side you believe in, instead of shouting from the sidelines..
Here is an interesting site that extolls the viability of MTBE:
Here is the copyright info from the OTHER site I posted:
© 2005 Renewable Fuels Association. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy
One Massachusetts Avenue, NW - Suite 820 - Washington, DC 20001 - (202) 289-3835
On another note, I have to concede that in addition to lowering our demand for foreign oil, Ethanol is also used as an oxygenate to reduce emissions. I retract my statements saying that it was not used for this purpose.
Last edited by J-Rat; 05-02-06 at 03:22 PM.
05-02-06, 03:25 PM
#74
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Originally Posted by J-Rat
lol!
Yeah, and find an anti Ethanol site that isnt biased either.. At least I am citing some sources and bringing numbers to the table, and not spouting some anti hippie rhetoric. Playing the devils advocate must be of some interest to you, but I would appreciate if you come in on whatever side you believe in, instead of shouting from the sidelines..
Here is an interesting site that extolls the viability of MTBE:
Here is the copyright info from the OTHER site I posted:
© 2005 Renewable Fuels Association. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy
One Massachusetts Avenue, NW - Suite 820 - Washington, DC 20001 - (202) 289-3835
On another note, I have to concede that in addition to lowering our demand for foreign oil, Ethanol is also used as an oxygenate to reduce emissions. I retract my statements saying that it was not used for this purpose.
Yeah, and find an anti Ethanol site that isnt biased either.. At least I am citing some sources and bringing numbers to the table, and not spouting some anti hippie rhetoric. Playing the devils advocate must be of some interest to you, but I would appreciate if you come in on whatever side you believe in, instead of shouting from the sidelines..
Here is an interesting site that extolls the viability of MTBE:
Here is the copyright info from the OTHER site I posted:
© 2005 Renewable Fuels Association. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy
One Massachusetts Avenue, NW - Suite 820 - Washington, DC 20001 - (202) 289-3835
On another note, I have to concede that in addition to lowering our demand for foreign oil, Ethanol is also used as an oxygenate to reduce emissions. I retract my statements saying that it was not used for this purpose.
My only argument right now is that we need to find alternative fuels... What they should be, I don't know. I'm simply enjoying pointing out where people have flaws in their arguments. You're welcome
