Engine won't start
04-09-12, 02:46 AM
#1
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Engine won't start
Hi there,
In january i started to rework my chassis (coilovers, stainless steel brake lines, stiffer diff and suspension bushings, brake rebuild, etc...)
Yesterday the car was ready to be back on the roads but we couldn't start it.
First, i've had issue with the battery. To bring the car where we fix it, i had to use battery cable with one of my friend's car. So i have a new battery in the car.
So far :
- The fuel pump works
- the coil and the spark plugs work
- the engine spin (but it might spin slowly than before, i'm not 100% sure)
- fuel reach the engine as it smells fuel in the exhaust
- i thought the engine has too much fuel (is "drawn" the word in english ?) so we removed the spark plug, cut the ignition and unplug the fuel pump, had the engine rev until no smoke came out, still the engine won't stop.
- When the key is in, there is something ticking under the intercooler. When moving the throttle, the noise disappear. So i suppose it's coming from the TPS but i don't remember if it was doing the sound before and if it could block the engine to start.
- also i have a cobra 7925 alarm. I suppose messing with the battery could have **** it up. But i don't know how it's supposed to block the engine to start (i supposed it should block the fuel to come to the engine, but it's not the case)
- Timing could be off ? no idea how to check this
So that would sum up all i can tell for the car i think.
Do you have any idea or advice to save me ?
In january i started to rework my chassis (coilovers, stainless steel brake lines, stiffer diff and suspension bushings, brake rebuild, etc...)
Yesterday the car was ready to be back on the roads but we couldn't start it.
First, i've had issue with the battery. To bring the car where we fix it, i had to use battery cable with one of my friend's car. So i have a new battery in the car.
So far :
- The fuel pump works
- the coil and the spark plugs work
- the engine spin (but it might spin slowly than before, i'm not 100% sure)
- fuel reach the engine as it smells fuel in the exhaust
- i thought the engine has too much fuel (is "drawn" the word in english ?) so we removed the spark plug, cut the ignition and unplug the fuel pump, had the engine rev until no smoke came out, still the engine won't stop.
- When the key is in, there is something ticking under the intercooler. When moving the throttle, the noise disappear. So i suppose it's coming from the TPS but i don't remember if it was doing the sound before and if it could block the engine to start.
- also i have a cobra 7925 alarm. I suppose messing with the battery could have **** it up. But i don't know how it's supposed to block the engine to start (i supposed it should block the fuel to come to the engine, but it's not the case)
- Timing could be off ? no idea how to check this
So that would sum up all i can tell for the car i think.
Do you have any idea or advice to save me ?
04-09-12, 03:56 AM
#2
Senior Member
So you putted it away working and now it isn't working. See that your battery is fully charged and put some jump starting cables over it.
FC's rely flood fast, if possible start them with ignition on but no fuel, the switch on the fuel and see if it starts.
FC's rely flood fast, if possible start them with ignition on but no fuel, the switch on the fuel and see if it starts.
04-09-12, 04:10 AM
#3
The ticking sound is probably the BAC.
When my engine was acting similar and wouldn't start, i also did the procedure you explain and it would not start, but it started after i sprayed the plugs with brake cleaner and lit them on fire.
Also you should mount a switch to the fuel pump, so you can turn it on and off from the drivers seat, makes things alot easyer.
When my engine was acting similar and wouldn't start, i also did the procedure you explain and it would not start, but it started after i sprayed the plugs with brake cleaner and lit them on fire.
Also you should mount a switch to the fuel pump, so you can turn it on and off from the drivers seat, makes things alot easyer.
04-09-12, 04:20 AM
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I'm also thinking Thérèse is something wrong with thé spark plugs. The car had already been fluides once and i havent changed them. More over i believe those are "cold" plugs. In addition, the wires are too old i think (140 000 km).
The battery is brand new.
Good idea to add à fuel pump switch. But by cranking the engine with the throttle pedal full on, isn't it supposed to cut thé fuel alimentation on S5 rx7 ?
The battery is brand new.
Good idea to add à fuel pump switch. But by cranking the engine with the throttle pedal full on, isn't it supposed to cut thé fuel alimentation on S5 rx7 ?
04-09-12, 06:57 AM
#5
You can pull the last 2 fuses in the box in the engine. (The 2 closest to the center of the engine bay, ones a 30 and the other a 40.) Then hop in the car with your foot to the floor and crank the engine for a good 10-15 seconds or so. This should clear out any flooding if it has occurred. Plug back in the fuses and then retry starting it.
Pulling the fuses will cut the fuel off allowing the spark to burn what has already flooded the engine.
Pulling the fuses will cut the fuel off allowing the spark to burn what has already flooded the engine.
04-09-12, 07:03 AM
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Yes that's what i did (except i removed only the egi fuse, i don't havé thé second one you said, what is it supposed to be ?). This afternoon i'll try to better clean the plugs...
04-09-12, 07:30 AM
#7
Complex Unflooding Procedure(86-91)
Note: This procedure is only to be done by persons with adequate tools and experience. Also, it is intended to be done after attempts to unflood with the Easy 3-step Method have failed.
TOOLS
Standard 13/16 spark plug socket and ratchet
One quart automatic transmission fluid(ATF)-any type
Oil squirter, fluid bulb(like a baster), or funnel with hose
NGK spark plug set(if needed)
PREPARATION
Battery needs to still have a reasonable charge. If engine is cranking slowly, please charge battery first or connect jumper cables.
STEP ONE
Locate main fuse box next to battery under the hood.
Pull innermost fuse from fuse box and leave out. Lid will have fuse labeled as "EGI Comp" for 1986-88 models and just "EGI" for 89-91 models. Note: some models have empty spaces for options on vehicle. There will be no fuses in these spots.
STEP TWO
Engine has (4)spark plugs arranged in a square pattern on the drivers side of engine. Please label each plug wire and remove all four plugs. Note: It is absolutely imperative that the wires be able to go back onto the correct spark plug hole when the procedure is completed. Also, make sure plug wires are out of the way of the accessory belts to avoid tangling when engine cranked in step three.
STEP THREE
Make sure all spark plugs are out of engine, EGI fuse pulled, and plug wires out of way of accessories and belts. Get back in vehicle, hold accelerator on floor and crank for 15~20 seconds. It is very important that the accelerator be held to floor during this process. Note: You will see lots of gasoline vapor misting in engine compartment. This is normal and will diminish during cranking process. Engine obviously will not start at this time.
STEP FOUR
Place approximately one ounce of automatic transmission fluid(ATF) into each of the bottom two spark plug holes. This will be difficult, but ABSOLUTELY necessary. The fluid will relubricate the chambers of the engine and allow it to build compression. Use any type ATF and any reasonable means to get fluid into engine.
Examine original spark plugs. Clean and dry carefully, if still in acceptable condition. Use a brand new set of NGK plugs, if necessary.
Install plugs and reattach spark plug wires. Note: As mentioned before, it is absolutely imperative that the right wire go to the right hole. Wires can be traced one-by-one from their coil connection. Each coil connection has labeled L1, L2, T1 or T2. Remember T stands for top, L for lower, 1 for front and 2 for rear. Also remember, there are different plugs for the top and bottom plugs. The ones with the blue banding at the insulator tip are the top two.
STEP FIVE
Place innermost fuse back in place at the main fuse box. Get back in vehicle and try to start vehicle like normal WITHOUT touching the accelerator at all. Engine should start almost immediately. On rare occasions, this procedure has to be repeated.
Note: Vehicle will smoke EXTREMELY heavily for awhile after startup. The more flooded the engine, the longer it will smoke.
Once engine has warmed up completely and battery has had some time to charge, turn engine off and restart. Engine should start normally. It is highly recommended to change the oil as soon as possible. Oil becomes heavily gasoline contaminated from the flooding.
Note: This procedure is only to be done by persons with adequate tools and experience. Also, it is intended to be done after attempts to unflood with the Easy 3-step Method have failed.
TOOLS
Standard 13/16 spark plug socket and ratchet
One quart automatic transmission fluid(ATF)-any type
Oil squirter, fluid bulb(like a baster), or funnel with hose
NGK spark plug set(if needed)
PREPARATION
Battery needs to still have a reasonable charge. If engine is cranking slowly, please charge battery first or connect jumper cables.
STEP ONE
Locate main fuse box next to battery under the hood.
Pull innermost fuse from fuse box and leave out. Lid will have fuse labeled as "EGI Comp" for 1986-88 models and just "EGI" for 89-91 models. Note: some models have empty spaces for options on vehicle. There will be no fuses in these spots.
STEP TWO
Engine has (4)spark plugs arranged in a square pattern on the drivers side of engine. Please label each plug wire and remove all four plugs. Note: It is absolutely imperative that the wires be able to go back onto the correct spark plug hole when the procedure is completed. Also, make sure plug wires are out of the way of the accessory belts to avoid tangling when engine cranked in step three.
STEP THREE
Make sure all spark plugs are out of engine, EGI fuse pulled, and plug wires out of way of accessories and belts. Get back in vehicle, hold accelerator on floor and crank for 15~20 seconds. It is very important that the accelerator be held to floor during this process. Note: You will see lots of gasoline vapor misting in engine compartment. This is normal and will diminish during cranking process. Engine obviously will not start at this time.
STEP FOUR
Place approximately one ounce of automatic transmission fluid(ATF) into each of the bottom two spark plug holes. This will be difficult, but ABSOLUTELY necessary. The fluid will relubricate the chambers of the engine and allow it to build compression. Use any type ATF and any reasonable means to get fluid into engine.
Examine original spark plugs. Clean and dry carefully, if still in acceptable condition. Use a brand new set of NGK plugs, if necessary.
Install plugs and reattach spark plug wires. Note: As mentioned before, it is absolutely imperative that the right wire go to the right hole. Wires can be traced one-by-one from their coil connection. Each coil connection has labeled L1, L2, T1 or T2. Remember T stands for top, L for lower, 1 for front and 2 for rear. Also remember, there are different plugs for the top and bottom plugs. The ones with the blue banding at the insulator tip are the top two.
STEP FIVE
Place innermost fuse back in place at the main fuse box. Get back in vehicle and try to start vehicle like normal WITHOUT touching the accelerator at all. Engine should start almost immediately. On rare occasions, this procedure has to be repeated.
Note: Vehicle will smoke EXTREMELY heavily for awhile after startup. The more flooded the engine, the longer it will smoke.
Once engine has warmed up completely and battery has had some time to charge, turn engine off and restart. Engine should start normally. It is highly recommended to change the oil as soon as possible. Oil becomes heavily gasoline contaminated from the flooding.
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04-09-12, 09:42 AM
#8
Place approximately one ounce of automatic transmission fluid(ATF) into each of the bottom two spark plug holes. This will be difficult, but ABSOLUTELY necessary. The fluid will relubricate the chambers of the engine and allow it to build compression. Use any type ATF and any reasonable means to get fluid into engine.
It's a pretty good run down of how to de-flood, but i personally only pull the bottom two plugs and after putting ATF fluid in, i reinstall the plugs and turn the motor over by hand 6-9 crank revolutions BACKWARDS.
This will cause the fluid to be spread across the chambers and by going backwards you aren't' just pushing all the aft back out the exhaust ports. i made this change of procedure after failing to start an auto about 4 times. doing this finally worked.
IF this is a 5 Speed, save your self the hassle and just get someone to pull you down the road and let the clutch out in 2nd or 3rd.
04-09-12, 01:37 PM
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so, at the end of the day, the car is still blocked...
i haven't yet tried to reverse spin the engine to lubricate the chambers. I've ordered a set of hot spark plugs (bur6eq and bur8eq). Once i receive did, i will redo the process with the reverse spin... when you say "one ounce", how much does it represent ? (i'm not really good with imperial units).
i can't really try to pull the car... the place where it's parked is up a hill, so if the car doesn't start and is blocked down the hill... no idea how to bring it back to the parking :/
i haven't yet tried to reverse spin the engine to lubricate the chambers. I've ordered a set of hot spark plugs (bur6eq and bur8eq). Once i receive did, i will redo the process with the reverse spin... when you say "one ounce", how much does it represent ? (i'm not really good with imperial units).
i can't really try to pull the car... the place where it's parked is up a hill, so if the car doesn't start and is blocked down the hill... no idea how to bring it back to the parking :/
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