Engine blew, need some advice. Pro's only.
07-14-06, 03:49 PM
#51
Full Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ogden, UT
Posts: 206
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Different strokes for different folks. I think I would rather go with a proven system more commonly used. At least I know what I'm getting. I don't know though. I need some more input on the mega squirt.
07-14-06, 04:56 PM
#53
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
Originally Posted by blackfcTII
Hmmm, maybe I need to read on but according to what I am reading there may be issues with the S5 with the ZEMS
And just for those who are questioning, I am playing around with a Zeal MS on my Turbo vert. There are some minor changes I am adding (like Barametric correction and NO2 setup), but with any luck I should have some short term feedback in the next month or so.
I need to spend some dyno time for real tuning, and a bunch of reading until I understand everything on it, but then all aftermarket ECUs will be in that ballpark.
Unfortantly spending time at the dyno is not real high priority on my list of to-do things right now
and as far as the Zeal MS itself, It looks internally constructed actually better than many of the low volumn aftermarket electronics I have seen.
Last edited by Icemark; 07-14-06 at 05:08 PM.
07-14-06, 05:19 PM
#54
Full Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ogden, UT
Posts: 206
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[QUOTE=Icemark]Not a whole lot of testing and maps yet for the S5 vehicles (although with a S5 Turbo- it should use a simular map to the S4 turbo).
What about the oil metering pumps, S4 mechanical, S5 electrical. That was one of the problems I was talking about unless you use premix but what if you wanted to keep it.
Let me know how it goes with your vert. Is you r vert a S5 or S4.
What about the oil metering pumps, S4 mechanical, S5 electrical. That was one of the problems I was talking about unless you use premix but what if you wanted to keep it.
Let me know how it goes with your vert. Is you r vert a S5 or S4.
07-14-06, 05:24 PM
#55
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
[QUOTE=blackfcTII]
I would think you would either run a S4 front cover and MOP or use pre-mix. As I recall (and I could be wrong- I am very new to the aftermarket ECU thing), but again as I recall, I don't think any of the aftermarket ECU's are set up for running the electric MOP.
My vert is using a S4 Turbo motor, being an 88 vert. I am also looking to passing CA emissions (at least the sniffer-I know it won't pass the visual), so I am also adding a driver circuit and the software to run the ACV.
Originally Posted by Icemark
Not a whole lot of testing and maps yet for the S5 vehicles (although with a S5 Turbo- it should use a simular map to the S4 turbo).
What about the oil metering pumps, S4 mechanical, S5 electrical. That was one of the problems I was talking about unless you use premix but what if you wanted to keep it.
Let me know how it goes with your vert. Is you r vert a S5 or S4.
What about the oil metering pumps, S4 mechanical, S5 electrical. That was one of the problems I was talking about unless you use premix but what if you wanted to keep it.
Let me know how it goes with your vert. Is you r vert a S5 or S4.
My vert is using a S4 Turbo motor, being an 88 vert. I am also looking to passing CA emissions (at least the sniffer-I know it won't pass the visual), so I am also adding a driver circuit and the software to run the ACV.
07-14-06, 05:28 PM
#56
Full Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ogden, UT
Posts: 206
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well that sucks. Premix I've heard can be a pain in the *** (oh well) and I have also heard that MOMP are less reliable then the EOMP. Could be wrong I guess.
07-14-06, 11:36 PM
#59
mechanical is easy to find, electrical in good condition is not since they do fail and are less abundant.
yes the megasquirt is cheap, i called it that because it is the cheapest EMS on the market. i also called it unproven because it is unproven(in my view anyways). what is so hard to understand about those 2 things and that i didn't feel like doing my own testing of the system with my overly busy schedule? i only stated the obvious but was the one who got jumped on.
i have done more than my fair share of experimenting with things to work with the seven in the past, just because i didn't promote this one thing does not mean i do not think it will work well it just doesn't have my approval yet... sheesh. who the hell cares what i think around here anyways??
yes the megasquirt is cheap, i called it that because it is the cheapest EMS on the market. i also called it unproven because it is unproven(in my view anyways). what is so hard to understand about those 2 things and that i didn't feel like doing my own testing of the system with my overly busy schedule? i only stated the obvious but was the one who got jumped on.
i have done more than my fair share of experimenting with things to work with the seven in the past, just because i didn't promote this one thing does not mean i do not think it will work well it just doesn't have my approval yet... sheesh. who the hell cares what i think around here anyways??
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 07-14-06 at 11:38 PM.
07-14-06, 11:40 PM
#60
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
Originally Posted by Karack
mechanical is easy to find, electrical in good condition is not since they do fail and are less abundant.
yes the megasquirt is cheap, i called it that because it is the cheapest EMS on the market. i also called it unproven because it is unproven(in my view anyways). what is so hard to understand about those 2 things and that i didn't feel like doing my own testing of the system with my overly busy schedule? i only stated the obvious but was the one who got jumped on.
i have done more than my fair share of experimenting with things to work with the seven in the past, just because i didn't promote this one thing does not mean i do not think it will work well it just doesn't have my approval yet... sheesh. who the hell cares what i think around here anyways??
yes the megasquirt is cheap, i called it that because it is the cheapest EMS on the market. i also called it unproven because it is unproven(in my view anyways). what is so hard to understand about those 2 things and that i didn't feel like doing my own testing of the system with my overly busy schedule? i only stated the obvious but was the one who got jumped on.
i have done more than my fair share of experimenting with things to work with the seven in the past, just because i didn't promote this one thing does not mean i do not think it will work well it just doesn't have my approval yet... sheesh. who the hell cares what i think around here anyways??
07-15-06, 12:19 PM
#62
Originally Posted by NZConvertible
While the advantages of a standalone are beyond debate, the myths and BS that get posted about FCD's is truly amazing. The MAP sensor does not control fuelling. The AFM is the main load sensor and is by far the most important sensor related to fuelling. This point gets repeated on a regular basis but it still doesn't seem to sink in. The ECU may think it's running less boost than it really is but it's still measuring airflow and calculating fuelling from that. Ignition timing is another matter, but it's still just a matter of making sure you have enough fuel and low enough intake temps to suppress detonation with the boost you're running.
07-16-06, 10:11 AM
#63
Jesus is the Messiah
Originally Posted by Karack
i'd like to believe they are capeable but i don't feel like tossing $500 at a standalone and hope it works as well as it's claimed, i'm sure it is capeable but is it worth spending an extra full weeks worth of time spending dialing things in? maybe from a tinkerer self tuners point of view, sure it may be fun tinkering with things but from a shop tuners point of view a full week of dicking with a car = $thousands of customer dollars which won't materialize because they went with the cheapest 'standalone' out there.
like i said, it probably is capable but back to my point there still hasn't been even a single person to hit even 300RWHP on it.... maybe i'm sounding dumb, maybe my number is high, maybe i put too much stock into people understanding how to tune, i dunno but i would have hoped maybe 1 or 2 people out there would have tried it and had good results but still people are weary of using a cheap standalone, had i known about them before i bought my microtech i probably would have used it but to tell the truth i doubt it is very easy to manage which is part of the reason it is unproven.
like i said, it probably is capable but back to my point there still hasn't been even a single person to hit even 300RWHP on it.... maybe i'm sounding dumb, maybe my number is high, maybe i put too much stock into people understanding how to tune, i dunno but i would have hoped maybe 1 or 2 people out there would have tried it and had good results but still people are weary of using a cheap standalone, had i known about them before i bought my microtech i probably would have used it but to tell the truth i doubt it is very easy to manage which is part of the reason it is unproven.
Stop being like that :P
ECU has nothing to do with peak output. It's all about tuning at that point. (Well, after about 800 HP you can start having to tune within a fraction of a degree of timing to get a bit more power . .. ) Even an SDS ECU will usually get the same peak output :P
It's the between points (among other things) that decide an ECU.
. . . . oh yeh, and people are running MS on their 1000HP+ cars. Supposed I sholda mentioned that :P
Originally Posted by blackfcTII
Hmmm, maybe I need to read on but according to what I am reading there may be issues with the S5 with the ZEMS
I've been running my S5 daily driver 'vert on it for YEARS.
We didnt even release the S5 ZEMS to the public yet!
Originally Posted by Karack
megasquirt is still unproven in my view, same with the Rtek 2.0, there have been no big number cars on either of those systems to date.. at least Rtek is new to the game but megasquirt has been out for a while now but i still haven't seen anyone hit over 300 to the wheels on a megasquirt but i have seen plenty do it with piggybacks. maybe people are taking it slow with tuning on them but a year is pushing it.
What do you mean "Unproven"?
How many cars must it run on to be proven?
Here in MD, just in my circle of friends, we've got quite a few FDs and FCs, and even a Vanagon and a Supra running on them
Last edited by Tofuball; 07-16-06 at 10:15 AM.
07-16-06, 10:26 AM
#64
Engine, Not Motor
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: London, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 29,789
Likes: 0
Received 110 Likes
on
93 Posts
My opinion:
Microtech: My ECU of choice. Uses stock sensors, quick to hook up, almost guaranteed for fire first try, never had or heard of triggering problems, runs stock FC ignition. Software isn't the the greatest. Less resolution the the others.
Haltech: Also a great ECU. More wiring, but also more options, can be configured to run anything, more resolution then Microtech, runs stock FC ignition, awesome software, triggering problems are common, likely to fire up first try due to millions of base maps out there. Loads of support.
Wolf: Not an option. Horrid software. Won't run stock FC ignition. Expensive. Much grief with triggering problems. Has a nice hand controller though, but not better then Microtech's.
Megasquirt: Cool for those who like to DIY. Requires modification to run the rotary (2.2 needs more mods then 3.0). Can be very cheap if cost is a concern, customizable if you have the skill. Plug and Play kits could be cool (I have no experience with them). I'm luke warm about the 'Squirt regarding reliability since there is little protection in the circuit from bad inputs, and initial installation can be a pain due to software changes, additional circuits, changes to the MS circuit for Mazda sensors, etc. Great software, very easy to tune.
Microtech: My ECU of choice. Uses stock sensors, quick to hook up, almost guaranteed for fire first try, never had or heard of triggering problems, runs stock FC ignition. Software isn't the the greatest. Less resolution the the others.
Haltech: Also a great ECU. More wiring, but also more options, can be configured to run anything, more resolution then Microtech, runs stock FC ignition, awesome software, triggering problems are common, likely to fire up first try due to millions of base maps out there. Loads of support.
Wolf: Not an option. Horrid software. Won't run stock FC ignition. Expensive. Much grief with triggering problems. Has a nice hand controller though, but not better then Microtech's.
Megasquirt: Cool for those who like to DIY. Requires modification to run the rotary (2.2 needs more mods then 3.0). Can be very cheap if cost is a concern, customizable if you have the skill. Plug and Play kits could be cool (I have no experience with them). I'm luke warm about the 'Squirt regarding reliability since there is little protection in the circuit from bad inputs, and initial installation can be a pain due to software changes, additional circuits, changes to the MS circuit for Mazda sensors, etc. Great software, very easy to tune.
07-16-06, 10:29 AM
#65
Jesus is the Messiah
Originally Posted by Aaron Cake
Megasquirt: Cool for those who like to DIY. Requires modification to run the rotary (2.2 needs more mods then 3.0). Can be very cheap if cost is a concern, customizable if you have the skill. Plug and Play kits could be cool (I have no experience with them). I'm luke warm about the 'Squirt regarding reliability since there is little protection in the circuit from bad inputs, and initial installation can be a pain due to software changes, additional circuits, changes to the MS circuit for Mazda sensors, etc. Great software, very easy to tune.
The ZEMS uses the v3 board, and that has PLENTY of protection from bad inputs.
07-16-06, 10:38 AM
#66
Engine, Not Motor
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: London, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 29,789
Likes: 0
Received 110 Likes
on
93 Posts
Good point...I just have 2 dead 2.2s sitting on the bench right now... One with fried injector driver (should be an easy fix if the board isn't too badly burned), and another that resets as soon as you try and program it (no idea on that one...).
One with fried injector driver (should be an easy fix if the board isn't too badly burned), and another that resets as soon as you try and program it (no idea on that one...).
07-16-06, 11:59 AM
#67
Senior Member
Originally Posted by Aaron Cake
Good point...I just have 2 dead 2.2s sitting on the bench right now... One with fried injector driver (should be an easy fix if the board isn't too badly burned), and another that resets as soon as you try and program it (no idea on that one...).
One with fried injector driver (should be an easy fix if the board isn't too badly burned), and another that resets as soon as you try and program it (no idea on that one...).
07-16-06, 05:58 PM
#68
Full Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ogden, UT
Posts: 206
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What in the world are you talking about?
I've been running my S5 daily driver 'vert on it for YEARS.
We didnt even release the S5 ZEMS to the public yet!
I was reading the page on it and there were people talking about a problem they might have with the S5
I've been running my S5 daily driver 'vert on it for YEARS.
We didnt even release the S5 ZEMS to the public yet!
I was reading the page on it and there were people talking about a problem they might have with the S5
07-16-06, 09:20 PM
#73
Full Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ogden, UT
Posts: 206
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So I'm thinkin......rebiuld, streetport, haltech stand alone, stage 3 upgrade turbo, FMIC. Sound good right, should upgrade injectors and fuel pump while I'm at it right. All this = 300+ HP. How long do you think the engine will last with just a regular oem rebiuld?
07-17-06, 04:58 AM
#74
Jesus is the Messiah
Originally Posted by blackfcTII
I was reading the page on it and there were people talking about a problem they might have with the S5
07-17-06, 08:59 AM
#75
Engine, Not Motor
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: London, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 29,789
Likes: 0
Received 110 Likes
on
93 Posts
Originally Posted by Nosferatu
Both of those 2.2 problems point "most likely" to user and build issues.The V2.2 has a known weak injector flyback circuit, if you are using low imped. injectors you should be running them through resistors.