Black13B

iTrader: (1)

FD alt bolts right up. The FD Alt I'm talking about is an S6. I'm not too familiar with FDs, so I'm not sure if the FD has 2 versions (S6 and S7).

Anyways, S6 bolts right up.

If you have an S5 car, the harness plug also is plug and play. If you have an S4, you have to change the plug. No biggie.

FD alternators are run via a serp. belt system, and FCs are all 'v'-belt. You need to swap the pulley onto the alternator. When I purchased mine from silverrotor he included a dual 'v'-belt pulley upon request so that I may run dual belts should I choose to remove the air pump. However if you purchase from a dealer, I'm not sure if they include the stock serp. belt pulley, if any pulley at all. In that case you would have to swap over the pulley. Not a big deal.

kuhlrx7

wow talk about opion and info with blinders on. fact the alt has the same drag on the engine that it already has being there in the first place. less drain on the engine is gotten from removal of the fan and fan clutch or any other item that uses a belt and hp to drive it. and there are electric fans that out perform the stock set up and some that dont. compare the cf rating to the rating of the stock fan so you know. electric or stock they both only last so long. fact the stock fan is not perfect. I like the electric fan set up with the dual fans. for those that say the stock fan is better you need to better explane with facts. do you know what the stock fan cf rating is? fact there is 1-5 hp gain from switching to an electric fan it has been proven many times on the dyno by many companys and people that have made the switch. 1-5 hp my not be able to be felt by the butt, but it is real. and IMHO it looks good.

Black13B

iTrader: (1)

Glad to hear you say it.

JerryLH3

iTrader: (11)

Maybe it's been proved by companies that are trying to sell electric fans, but there has been no dyno charts posted on this forum showing any real gains.

It's a matter of personal preference. If you want an e-fan, go for it, but don't expect any big gains and make sure you install it properly, otherwise you're just causing more problems.

Black13B

iTrader: (1)

This is the 'Cliffs Notes' for all the e-fan threads out there.

West TX RX-7

Besides working very well and letting your engine spin up faster it makes the engine bay look so much cleaner.

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

Put it like this...

YOU try to cool a TII in Arizona....

Jarrett

NZConvertible

I assume that's aimed partly at me. Truth is I've had both types of fans and I've made a point of finding out how both work, plus the proper way to convert to an electric fan. I've never said "don't ever convert to an electric fan", and I do know how well they can work. No blinders here, I'm just trying to kill all the electric fan myths and make sure the conversion is done the right way.
Not quite correct. If you place extra load on the alternator then the alternator places load on the engine. Turn you headlights on and the revs drop. A thermoclutch fan fan draws very little engine power until it's required, so removing it only fress up hp at times when the fan is required. Obviously an electric fan also only draws engine power when it's required.
Another myth. The stock fan works perfectly, so how can an electric fan work better? I've asked this before, but nobody answered...
No fan is, but what about the stock fan don't you like specifically? Like I said, it does the job it was designed for perfectly.
I hope you don't use then on an FC. You should always aim to cover as much of the radiator's surface with the fan. The shape of the FC's radiator (almost square) means one big fan will cover more area than two small ones, and also move more air.
Do you? Fact is, if the thermoclutch works properly, you won't have fan-related cooling problems with the stock fan. The actual cfm rating is irrelevant. It pulls enough air to do the job. But for every person with a successful e-fan conversion, there's one suffering cooling problems because of poor fan selection, poor installation, or both. There're a few cooked engines too...
As mentioned, show an improvement on an FC and people here will listen, otherwise there are too many variables. Besides, 1-5 peak hp gain is nothing. In the mid-range where you spend the most time it's even less.
Some might say if you can't notice the power gain, it is not worth the money.

My posts on this and other e-fan threads have probably branded me an e-fan hater, but that's complete crap. I do like electric fans, and if and when my thermoclutch dies I will fit one because it'll be cheaper and I'll make sure it works just as well as stock. But I see no good reason to change any earlier.

NZConvertible

Point taken.

Black13B

iTrader: (1)

Rock on, man.

I'll remember that for the next 20,000 e-fan threads that constantly come up.

I had you pegged as a "hater"..

kuhlrx7

yeah NZConvertible you do come across a efan hater in your post and that was aimed at all agenst the e-fan switch. because you said your are not I searched your post in previous threads regarding efans. for the most part in you do come across that way. but there are places through out most of them that you almost sound like you are realy going to do the switch to the efan some day. so it realy seams you are open for dialog on this. IMO the stock fan is not perfect. how have you arived at the opion it is? in fact you say it is and you say it is not. I agree there have been many problems with people installing a cheep e-fan or one of the wrong design, or even size coupled with a hack job install. no question there. the question rises when you are including a corect e-fan install that will keep your engine at a more stable constant temp/run for less amount of time per the same duration of drive time(less drain there)ie:quicker on off time, more air flow,more room in the engine bay for heat disapation. that is anser your question how a electric fan can work better. may be in NZ the stock fan pulls anuff air to perform acceptable, but on this board there are people from all over the world(some that live in warmer conditions) that have heat issues with the stock fan. a lot of people do say that 1-5 hp at peak is not useable an I hapen to agree with that, but still it is real and can be tested. there are a lot of ways fan performance can be judged cfm is on way. useing that alone will not get you to the best fan for your car. agreed? it would be better if you used a good e-fan set up to compare to the stock set up. if you did you may not come across like you are a hater of e-fans. the poll has a lot more people for the e-fan than agenst it. are looks the only reason? and no I am not useing the dual fan on a fc. I am using it on a t2 powered / wired SA. but dual verse single is another disscussion. the drag on the engine from the alt is still less than the stock fan. prove me wrong. please, if so I will admit it. like you I just want the opion/myths removed from the issue that are incorect. there have been many threads on this filled with myths and that is why this comes up over and over. do you know what the stock fan is cfm rated ? it been posted before a couple of times and differantly. either way there are e-fans that flow more and some that flow less.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

I can't believce it's happening again....

Anyway, I have actually written two web pages: The Myth Of The Electrica Fan and How To Properly Install An Electric Fan that summerize all this up nicely. Unfortunately, they will not be online for a month or two...

bliffle

Seems to me that the advantage of an electric fan is that it can draw stored energy from the battery while accelerating, thus reducing fan load when one needs engine power. The battery is later refreshed during cruising.

That's the theory, anyhow.

F

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

You don't need the fan when you are accellerating. The fan is only needed at idle or when the car is "creeping".

kuhlrx7

yeah aaron after reading through many, many previous threads on this I can not either. it is also amazing to hear how many people think that the stock fan is not only good but great (better than any electric fan). and how verbal they can be about it. It is too bad you can't get those wright ups up earlier because as many times as this has came up per year. of corse it would also be nice if your post stayed the same after you hit reply and it posted. ( words missing from sentances letters in words missing or complete sentances missing.) I am going to stick to short replys for a while till this gets fixed. its much harder to come across differant then.

5 point whoa

I'd say go with the efans, there not that expensive, and they could help out some if done right

PureSephiroth

I say, people's opinions don't matter because after reading this same thread a thousand times, no side has convinced the other of anything. Do what you will but don't kill an RX-7 while you do it. Whether it be with the stock fan or an E-fan. Both seem to have their advantages don't they. It always, with any modification, or any choice in automobiles for that matter, depends on what you intend to do with the car.

RoninAutoBoX

I like my E-Fan because it goves me a lot more room to work with my engine, inspect it, and it is a good visual plus as well. The way I see it is, why have a a fan and shroud unit the size of the friggin engine itself when you can have something only 3 3/4" thick? Why take up all of that damn space for such a simple task? It's no wonder it works perfectly. A fan taking up that much space had better. Having that giant shroud in place makes even the simplest tasks more difficult that imaginable. Things that used to take forever and weird contortions of hand and tool now only take a minute.

I'll tell you one thing, my engine may not have gotten any cooler by the E-Fan, but my AC is a lot colder now (gauge verified) as it my oil temps (also gauge verified, thank you).

Thanks to removing the incredible hulk, I was also able to locate and repair an oil leak that had been troubling me for weeks now.

And before anyody accuses me of being a hardcore E-Fan lover, let me just tell you that I still keep the stock fan and shroud, just in case.

I use a perma Cool 2950 cfm fan on the back of the radiator, in 18 inches diameter (fits the whole radiator perfectly) and a 1650 cfm AC fan that is more cooling than the engine will ever require, which is exactly what I need. Florida will take any cooling system to its limits, especially since AC is practically mandatory.

Black13B

iTrader: (1)

I don't think it's really about "sides" (anymore).

It's really a matter of stressing the point that if you choose to do it, do it right.

RoninAutoBoX

Oh yeah, and as far as that wholeelectrical load argument goes, please, don't blame an aged system on problems maintaining electrical components. If your engine is affected at all by you turning your headlights on, your car needs some serious help. After replacing my BAC valve, I can turn on all of my lights, (headlights, tailights with my foot on the brake, hatch area light, doors open with all interior lights, foglights) turn on my AC, with the AC fan, turn on my e-fan, and yank the steering back and forth (power steering) and it has almost no effect at idle at all. I am still at 14.2 volts (multimeter verified) and going strong.

NZConvertible

A lot of those posts were about the correct way to install electric fans, including my own wiring diagram. If I really hated them, I wouldn't bother doing that. Like I said, I was just trying to correct all the BS.
Because for me, and most other people, (deep calming breath...) it does work perfectly. Sure the thermoclutch will eventually fail, but so will most things on the car (including electric fans).
Electric fans are either on or off. The coolant temp has to rise a certain amount before the fan is triggered, and then drop a bit before the fan is switched off. So the temp cycles up and down, which is not ideal. A thermoclutch engages gradually as required, spinning the fan faster as heat off the radiator increases. This actually keeps the temps more stable, and is one of the reasons why most manufactrers still use thermoclutch fans on longitudinal engines.
Personally I don't believe this is due to an inherant fault or undersizing of the fan. It's much more likely that components (not necessarily the fan) have worn out due to the age of the car. Did FC's have problems keeping cool at low speed in hot climates when new? Not that I know of.
I wish I could, but I can't. I've always worked on the assumption that they're similar (i.e. no gain from switching), but when you think about it there's no inefficient energy conversions taking place with a mechanical fan. To drive an electric fan, you convert mechanical energy into elctrical energy (alternator) and then back to mechanical energy (fan motor), so there's two energy losses right there. Fan efficiencies (mechanical work converted to airflow) are a lot more complicated though, so it depends greatly on the fans in question.
I've never seen any figures on the stock fan posted here, but I doubt that any that are would be accurate. Mazda's design archives would be about the only place that would have that info. Fan testing is not a simple process (many, many variables) and I doubt anyone would have gone to the effort to test it properly. I also wouldn't trust most aftermarket fan data as far as I could throw it...
Let's be clear here. The fan is in fact slightly smaller than most electric fans people fit. It's the shroud that takes up the room, and that shroud does a much better job than most of the e-fans out there (except yours). It allowed Mazda to use a slanted radiator so it could be bigger than an upright one and still fit under the low nose profile. It also means the thermoclutch reacts to the heat rejected by the coolant and oil and A/C, something an electric fan cannot do unless you want to install three temp switches. So there are perfectly logical engineering reasons for it.

Damn, that was only meant to be a short post...

JunpoweR

iTrader: (1)

E fan dosent Cause any more drag than does the stock fan.. ok were talking about mechanical drag vs. electrical drag..

mabey you wont see HP diffrence but it will put less drag on the motor.. also if you do remove the fan GREAT!!
do it!!

ADD A ELECTRIC FAN!! lol

also electric fans are not put into cars because of packaging\engine bay issues..honestly i believe it is done by engineers at the factory..if the fan clutch was more efficient then they wouldnt have put a electric fan on the fd..common upgrading your alternator isnt hard!!!
i think my alt is a 80amp..and most electric fans only draw about 10-16 amps..just get the better amp alt
(alt = alteranator)
i say get a 110-130 amp alt then your all good..anyways i am gonna run a underdrive pulley on my ALT and i seen it on other cars with the stock ALT and never seen a charging problem..hey buddy!! they dont stay on all day!!!..get a thermostat!!..and that probably wont be on while youre driving over 25 mph..anyways i say it will make a improvement in cooling anyways and dont we all wanna cool our RX7's=).and also if the engine is better cooled it will run better and make more hp!! so if the removal of the mechinical drag dosent seem like a worthwhile improvement, to you people, then think of the improvement you will se in cooling that does result in more power..
thank you and, "Your only a NOOB if you feel like one!!"
lolz

JunpoweR

iTrader: (1)

oh i looked under my gtus today and saw there is a blocking plate behind the oil cooler so the heat dosent hit the a\c condenser and the radiator.it get directed back under the car..i am removing my a\c condensor and the pump hoses and everything..expect to loose about 15-25 pounds.. so all i have will be a oil cooler and a radiator right behind it!!.3 tem sensors?!!! you out of your mind haha..well i think just having a oil cooler temp sensor will be good..but since its in front of the radiator the extra heat just makes the radiator get excess heat from the oil cooler..but the water tempature in the radiator effects when the thermostat turns the electric fan on and if you have a adjustable thermostat you can set it to cool just like a stock fan..
when it turns on and when it turns off can be adjusted!!
so why couldnt you put a electric fan into the car..??
i say DO IT!!

NZConvertible

It's these kind of uneducated statements that keeps these threads ticking along...

Most cars that use electric fans as the main cooling fan have transverse engines. That's a fairly significant packaging issue. Have you ever seen the radiator on an FD? It's layed forward ~60deg, so making a fan shroud to go between the radiator and an engine-driven fan would be difficult and impractical. Electric fans were chosen because they were easier to efficiently package. Look under the bonnet of any full-size car with a longitudinally mounted engine (Merc, BMW, Lexus, etc) and you'll most probably see an engine-driven thermoclutch fan, with a supplementary electric pusher fan for the A/C, just like the FC.
Why underdrive an upgraded alternator? It'll produce less current and put you right back where you started!
I'll ask this again. If your thermoclutch fan maintains normal temps (i.e. where they're supposed to be) no matter how slow you drive or how long you idle, how is an electric fan going to perform better? It might cool just as well, but it can't cool better.
If your engine is running too hot, reducing temps to normal will improve performance. If it's running where it should be, running cooler could reduce performance. Engines are designed to run at temps that maximise thermal efficiency.

kuhlrx7

here if florida as well as many of the warmer states like TX and AR many fc's new had heat issues. and the fan clutch was commonly a replacment in most of those cases. have you ever tested your thermal clutch? the ones I have do not work as gradual as your discription. although in theory they are soppost to. so what was your vote? for or agenst?