antnicuk

I currently use the stock viscous fan and cowling and i am very happy with the water temps but i am looking for more power and want to use an electric one, in the past i have not been happy with them. What fans are you using and how do you mount them?


Can i put a pusher on the outside and a sucker on the inside?

YaNi

iTrader: (2)

Pick up a Taurus fan and shroud. They fit well and the fan is very powerful.

RotaMan99

Please research first. There is a lot to learn about switching to an electric fan

Installing an e-fan is not an upgrade. Its more of a sideways step. There are both pro and cons about both.

A MUST read is here
http://howto.globalvicinity.com/gv_w...=149&co=1&vi=1

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

The 91-96 escort fan works well and can cool most street applications making several times the hp of a rotary. It's the same fan used on the mid 90s taurus and other models, with slightly different shrouding. Some are 2 speed if the car had a/c, some of the models were single speed. I find that efans on series 4 cars are a downgrade because the charging system is barely adequate in stock form before trying to tax it even more, while s5 cars have no issue at all with e-fans. You'll notice a nice improvement in low end and midrange torque without the stock clutch fan sapping all the power out, but your charging system should be in shape before doing the mod.

It also makes things look a bit nicer and easier to work on. And it keeps the fan from making your sportscar sound like a dumptruck or bus when it accelerates.

socalrotor

iTrader: (1)

I prefer new fans myself. Summit racing has a 16 inch fan that pulls 2000 CFM. It is by far the cheapest NEW fan I have found( around 70 bucks shipped). I made a custom shroud for my KOYO Rad, BUT it will mount and fit into a stock showd and work very well too. Comes with tons of mounting hardware too depending on how you want to use it.

RotaMan99

This can easily be true on some vehicals. Some may have no issue at all. This is why you want to look for a fan that moves the most CFM but with the least amount of current draw.

The clutch fan does not take up as much power as some may think. There has only been an estimation so far but it is real close to actual numbers. The clutch fan has more potential of taking up more hp. Also move more air then any electric fan could during high rpms.

The electric fan is excellent at low rpms and low speeds since this is where the clutch fan is less effective.

All of this info and more you will find at the link I provided.

Most CFM ratings for e-fans are at Zero Static pressure. Meaning while the fan is not pulling or pushing air through a heat exchanger or another obstical. So that 2000 CFM fan could actually be around 1500 cfm when placed on the radiator and will also pull more current.

Like I said. There is A LOT of info that needs to be read about the electric fan vs clutch fan and there pros and cons.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

I have never seen a standard aftermarket e-fan that performed up to my expectations, mostly because the blades are so small and they are not shrouded. Fans with larger blades tend to move a shitload more air, and are a little quieter in doing it, rather than sounding like a dremel tool just started up inside your engine bay.

The escort fan mentioned above fits the FC radiator perfectly. I am in the process of getting another for my current FC.

SpooledupRacing

I have a 8amp 3600cfm 16" electric fan.. I bought ift off ebay for 45.00 to the door...

I will be installing that this week most likley

Dave

87 t-66

iTrader: (133)

taurus/escort fan ftw. it fits perfectly

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

It won't work too well with no alternator, nor will the engine stay very cool with no waterpump belt. :P

87 t-66

iTrader: (133)

yeah i need to finish wiring it too that pic is kinda old. i have a different intake now and the motor is all put together. all the belts are on too. i just got my haltech back from Australia. hopefully she starts in the next week or two.

NZConvertible

You don't need to upgrade the fan when power increases. The fan's only used at low speed and when stopped, and in those conditions a 500hp motor chucks out the same amount of heat as a stock one.

Now you're spreading this myth too? You don't get any worthwhile performance improvement from an e-fan over the stock clutch fan, and I've yet to see anyone prove otherwise. Simple before-and-after acceleration tests would quickly show up a "nice improvement in midrange torque" but has anyone ever bothered to do this and prove it?

LovMyRx7

iTrader: (7)

What radiator are you running? Im in S4 N/A, so i would like to get the same your running so it will fit "perfect" like yours. Getting mine for free

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

I dont plan to waste any dyno time if that is what you are talking about, as I never dyno my cars anyway. If I had a gtech pro or other reliable means of taking measurements then I would do so. In the meantime, a "butt dyno" will have to suffice.

I can say that I recently did e-fans on my truck and wow, did it make a difference. IN the sub-3000rpm range it must have freed up 15hp, all bullshit aside. It certainly made more of a difference than cutting the converters out of the exhaust.

E-fans have been proven to free up horsepower, however slight, as well as make the engine bay easier to work in, better looking, keep the car quieter when accelerating (no one likes to drive a dump truck) and they can even contribute to better economy/mpg (not likely in a rotary).

Bottom line, clutch fans and cheap and work well, but they are old technology. Notice the FD and RX-8 using e-fans?

NZConvertible

Who said anything about a dyno? That would be the worst place to compare fans.

See, this is what people just don't seem to get. You're chucking basic laws of thermodynamics out the window with these crazy claims. To free up 15hp, the stock fan must've been using 15hp to drive it. That's a ludicrous amount of power for a relatively small fan. I've seen fans with 15hp motors and they're taller than my car! I select fans and design fan systems as part of my job so I have a reasonable idea of how much power it takes to move a certain amount of air. In fact it's not hard to calculate with enough data. A ball-park figure to move 2000cfm would be around 1-2hp. If you had a large inefficient fan (and the FC doesn't), you might need 5hp.

Notice the shape of their noses and the space in their engine bays. Notice how their radiators are a slanted forward at a large angle? Can you imagine trying to duct a mechanical fan into them? E-fans are awesome for solving packaging challenges. Look under the hood of a lot of modern sedans with longitudinal engines and you'll still see thermoclutch fans.

antnicuk

Thanks for all the info guys,

To clear a few things up:
I have a series 5 so hopefull charging wont be an issue, also my battery is huge.

I'm not particularly looking for more power, my current set up has 460 flwhp so i'm not fussed about another 5 or 10.

One issue is tidyness of the engine bay

Another is belt slip. I have a twin pulley and i still cant stop the belts slipping, at least that what i think it is, the lights on the dash panel in the centre of the car glow as i accelerate quickly in low gears. Some have said this is the load of the fan causing it.

I also dont know how long the viscous fan will last, its 17 years old and i mainly use the car for track days so it spends its life at flat out rpms.

I have been really happy for over 2 years with how the car has been performing water temp wise, its so steady all the time, basically it sits at 86 degrees all the time, under normal driving or sitting in traffic, round the track it goes up to about 90 but soon cools back down to 86 as soon as i come off. (i have an apexi commander and ecu so its a fairly level playing field to take the water temps from.

When i first built the car i put a kenlow 16 inch fan strapped straight to the rad, the temps would go up and down under normal driving and took ages to come down, the fan would have been on most of the time. I know they work a lot better with a shroud.

Thats when i put the stock one back and its been great.

Has anyone fitted a fan from a lincoln mark 8? its 18.5 inches and supposed to flow 4300 cfm?

NZConvertible

Sounds like a bad alternator. If the belts were slipping when accelerating hard from low speed you'd hear them squealing.

RotaMan99

I would test the fan's running current when you get it. I don't think it will be 8amps if its off ebay. I bought one that said it was 7 amps. It happend to be 14. Although it may have been 7amp at zero static pressure, I never tested it off the rad.

I have . Atleast to my expectations. I don't build performance engines though.

There are mainly 2 type of bladed fans. S-blade and Straight blade. S blade is much quieter but it looks as though they move a lot more air then straight blade fans. In their specs I also notice they take up almost twice as much current to do so.

I have also read that on specific trucks, the clutch fan takes up that much. On our cars though. it takes less then 2hp. Usually around 1 or less.

I don't know what type of truck he has but the clutch may not disengauge as much as ours. Plus the fan may be bigger with more or less blades at less or more of an angle to them. Reving the fan up to 3000+ on his truck may have taken up a fair more then what you would see on our engines. Not saying it was 15hp though.

They are technology that works extremley well. You can even buy differernt blades and clutches these days to improve how they work. Wether you want less slip or more.

RotaMan99

Probubly pulls nearly 28amps to move that much air. Have a FD alt?

My5ABaby

iTrader: (7)

When, exactly, does the stock fan come on? From what I understand it comes on if you're traveling under ~30mph and/or engine temps are high enough.

Tell me about it. My damn stock fan sounds like a Cessna taking off or something.

NZConvertible

The thermoclutch responds to the temperature of the air coming off the radiator. It starts to engage when that air is ~70degC/160degF and is fully engaged when it's ~85degC/185degF (that's not actual engine temp though, as the coolant in the radiator will always be hotter than the air coming off it). So the fan speed responds proportionally and gradually to coolant temp. As road speed increases the off-radiator air temp will drop and the clutch disengages. Also the clutch starts to slip once the engine reaches ~3000rpm so the fan doesn't spin any faster.

RotaMan99

The clutch fan is never off. Its always on just at a varied percentage of engine rpm. Wether its 80% (maximum engaugment) or 25% (minimum engagement). At lower rpms, near idle, the clutch fan is only moving around 500+ CFM.

Here is a little info from the link I provided... engagment at 80%

The fan's RPM is 25% of the engine's RPM below 62C, 80% of the engine's RPM above 85C, and otherwise somewhere in between

Engine Idling at 800rpm, fan at 600rpm
Zero static pressure:
CFM: 673
HP: 0.01
inH20: 0

Peak Pressure Efficiency:
CFM: 500
HP: 0.01
inH20: 0.02

Engine Cruising at 2,000rpm, fan at 1,600rpm
Zero Static Pressure:
CFM: 1,791
HP: 0.21
inH20: 0

Peak Pressure Efficiency:
CFM: 1,324
HP: 0.26
inH20: 0.17

NZConvertible

Assuming you estimated these numbers from the graph in the training manual, as temp increases it actually starts to engage at ~70degC, not 62. Follow the arrows.

RotaMan99

I just copied and pasted the info from the GV site, after looking at the arrows yes you are right as long as the clutch is disengaged. If the clutch is disengaging, it won't be at 25% at 70*C. It will be below that, near 62*C.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

Do you really think that the only benefit to small displacement longitudinally mounted drivetrains is the packaging benefit?

Here is the rub. NZ. When you are designing fans and calculating HP, I bet you are typically working with single speed fan, hp and CFM. IE, this 24" fan uses 1.5 hp to move 3500 CFM@0.2" Static Pressure.

There is a big difference when you are talking about a dynamic system in the automotive world.

In a car, including in our rotaries, the engine driven fan and clutch and pulley all contribute to rotating mass. The pulley ration reduces it to +/- 2/3 of the crankshaft speed. The visco-clutch allows the fan to adjust to requirements, yada yada etc...

The increase in response that Kevin is noticing is not just the difference (if any) between the HP required to run the fan and the HP required to generate the electricity to run the E-fan. The increased response when going e-fan is that the engine no longer has to accelerate the fan, the clutch, the pulley, the belt.

Think along the lines of the light-weight flywheel. You can't calculate any net HP gain, nor can you measure any HP difference on a dyno, but you can sure as hell tell that the response and torque available is very, very real. We pay easily $300-$400 to cut weight of the flywheel. How much removal does the visco-clutch fan system reduce the effective rotating mass?

Throw in the reality that when the e-fan happens to not be running you get the reduction in rotation mass as well as no increase in the alternator load. How 'bout for the average daily driven RX7adding a WOT switch that will interrupt the e-fan?

Anyone who believes in the e-fan improvement is a 'myth' hasn't thought things through from every side of the system.