E fan
01-10-11, 09:24 AM
#26
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yea the only prob i have with fd alt is the pulley is for serpetine and i ahve v belts........... and beside more engine room is there a benefit to efan, i no it reduces engine pull so it increases hp a little but is it worth it on a na engine? i main reason for wanting to do this is that i have only 2 belts on my water pump and i can turn my waterpump by hand with the engine off and i wanted to take out the clutch fan so it wasnt useing the water pump pulley to run the fan maybe to stop slippage(not that im slipping but if i tighten the belts it starts squealing like crazy)
Last edited by canonize-ryda; 01-10-11 at 09:41 AM.
01-10-11, 10:56 AM
#29
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Realistically, as per it's design of being a clutch-style fan, the stock fan doesn't pull enough power from the car to make a difference. Basically it engages or disengages the fan-clutch via a thermo-sensor. Too hot and the little locker engages; not hot enough and it goes into free-spin.
Aaron's got a really good write-up about it, as well. Go to his site and, "Extra! Extra! read all about it!"
I was under the same impression, some time ago, but after I did mine, it ran the same.. Purely a placebo effect.
I think he's referring to boring out the INSIDE of the FD alt pulley to fit the FC Alt. Of course, my suggestion would be to just swap to the FD alternator, altogether, there-by eliminating the need to swap pulleys, at all.
The BEST option would be to get the FD alt and then the double-pulley for it.
Take a couple of mins and try to track down the GB that was up for custom Billet FD doubles. You can get them (if I recall, correctly) in Black, raw, blue and 'HKS Purple' finishes. I think he's got a few alts, as well.
That option would probably be the most streamlined of any, Your not only upgrading to the FD alt, but also getting the double-pulley (in pimpin' purple) to combat the infamous belt-slippage commonly occurring in air-pump elimination.
Aaron's got a really good write-up about it, as well. Go to his site and, "Extra! Extra! read all about it!"
I was under the same impression, some time ago, but after I did mine, it ran the same.. Purely a placebo effect.
I think he's referring to boring out the INSIDE of the FD alt pulley to fit the FC Alt. Of course, my suggestion would be to just swap to the FD alternator, altogether, there-by eliminating the need to swap pulleys, at all.
The BEST option would be to get the FD alt and then the double-pulley for it.
Take a couple of mins and try to track down the GB that was up for custom Billet FD doubles. You can get them (if I recall, correctly) in Black, raw, blue and 'HKS Purple' finishes. I think he's got a few alts, as well.
That option would probably be the most streamlined of any, Your not only upgrading to the FD alt, but also getting the double-pulley (in pimpin' purple) to combat the infamous belt-slippage commonly occurring in air-pump elimination.
Last edited by TrboSpdAnt; 01-10-11 at 10:59 AM. Reason: *facepalm*
01-10-11, 11:17 AM
#30
one issue I think we should touch on- if the car is retaining AC then any ole junk yard fan may not be sufficient
also- when I checked a few years ago my local auto parts stores claimed rebuilt FD alternators with core only, The stores that would sell me a alternator without core wanted some really crazy core charge
so I ended buying a new one from a auto parts website like car stuff .com, came with a lifetime warranty and a test sheet that said it had put out closer to 120-130 amps
also- when I checked a few years ago my local auto parts stores claimed rebuilt FD alternators with core only, The stores that would sell me a alternator without core wanted some really crazy core charge
so I ended buying a new one from a auto parts website like car stuff .com, came with a lifetime warranty and a test sheet that said it had put out closer to 120-130 amps
01-10-11, 01:52 PM
#31
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yea i ahve a double pulley on my car as it in, upgraded from a single 86 alt to the 88 alt, the only reason i ask about it(im almost ditching the efan idea since i run 2 L7 kickers at 1200 watts rms witha dual mono 1200 jbl amp) so i have mega drain, maybe this is way ive gone threw 2 batterys in five years...
01-10-11, 02:10 PM
#32
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Realistically, as per it's design of being a clutch-style fan, the stock fan doesn't pull enough power from the car to make a difference. Basically it engages or disengages the fan-clutch via a thermo-sensor. Too hot and the little locker engages; not hot enough and it goes into free-spin.
Aaron's got a really good write-up about it, as well. Go to his site and, "Extra! Extra! read all about it!"
I was under the same impression, some time ago, but after I did mine, it ran the same.. Purely a placebo effect.
I think he's referring to boring out the INSIDE of the FD alt pulley to fit the FC Alt. Of course, my suggestion would be to just swap to the FD alternator, altogether, there-by eliminating the need to swap pulleys, at all.
The BEST option would be to get the FD alt and then the double-pulley for it.
Take a couple of mins and try to track down the GB that was up for custom Billet FD doubles. You can get them (if I recall, correctly) in Black, raw, blue and 'HKS Purple' finishes. I think he's got a few alts, as well.
That option would probably be the most streamlined of any, Your not only upgrading to the FD alt, but also getting the double-pulley (in pimpin' purple) to combat the infamous belt-slippage commonly occurring in air-pump elimination.
Aaron's got a really good write-up about it, as well. Go to his site and, "Extra! Extra! read all about it!"
I was under the same impression, some time ago, but after I did mine, it ran the same.. Purely a placebo effect.
I think he's referring to boring out the INSIDE of the FD alt pulley to fit the FC Alt. Of course, my suggestion would be to just swap to the FD alternator, altogether, there-by eliminating the need to swap pulleys, at all.
The BEST option would be to get the FD alt and then the double-pulley for it.
Take a couple of mins and try to track down the GB that was up for custom Billet FD doubles. You can get them (if I recall, correctly) in Black, raw, blue and 'HKS Purple' finishes. I think he's got a few alts, as well.
That option would probably be the most streamlined of any, Your not only upgrading to the FD alt, but also getting the double-pulley (in pimpin' purple) to combat the infamous belt-slippage commonly occurring in air-pump elimination.
01-10-11, 06:41 PM
#33
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I didn't have nay issue as far as the pinning of the clip... Simple clip and splice is sufficient.
The wheel-swap has to do with a couple of things. One is the diameter (compare an S4 or 5 pulley to the FD's and you'll see what I mean over- vs under-drive) and the other has to do with running the double-pulley (if you've omitted the air-pump.) As far as FITMENT issues go, it's not an issue of the ALT not fitting (let's not forget where the mounting points are!), and i CERTAINLY isn't going to prevent you from closing the hood. Look at how long the stock FC belt is vs the FD.
Like Rob said, the AC *IS* a big modifier as far as the efficiency of the fan. ATM I don't have PS or AC, and my efan pulls about 12deg off the thermo at idle, without a thought (starting point).
The wheel-swap has to do with a couple of things. One is the diameter (compare an S4 or 5 pulley to the FD's and you'll see what I mean over- vs under-drive) and the other has to do with running the double-pulley (if you've omitted the air-pump.) As far as FITMENT issues go, it's not an issue of the ALT not fitting (let's not forget where the mounting points are!), and i CERTAINLY isn't going to prevent you from closing the hood. Look at how long the stock FC belt is vs the FD.
Like Rob said, the AC *IS* a big modifier as far as the efficiency of the fan. ATM I don't have PS or AC, and my efan pulls about 12deg off the thermo at idle, without a thought (starting point).
01-10-11, 07:56 PM
#35
i run a nissan quest fan, wired up with a thermoswitch and relay thats in a write-up somewhere around here it works great, and i only run it on low speed here in tx and my temps are just fine... I run a fd alternator with a gilmer drive setup so no slipping for me either!
01-11-11, 09:04 AM
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u would have to switch pullies im sure since the fd has serpetine pulley.... and what did u pay for the gilmer drive set, ive been looking at one and wanna see if it worth it, and what did u have to do to change them out...
01-11-11, 12:15 PM
#38
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There're a few places to get Gilmer pullies.
X-Treme Rotories has 'em from $90 per to 450 for the set. If you've got the funds this is the BEST setup to run; like RX7Boy06 said - No slippage!
As far as changing the FD pulley out due to serpentine- vs. V-Belt setups, that only is concerned by way of the pulley's placement. Slipping is the main concern, so getting a good double is the more important clause, in that paragraph. If I pulled alternators off of a dozen cars, could you tell me which ones had V-belts or snakey ones? Nope. All the pullies, FTMP, look the same.
Just outta curiosity: Why would you WANT to run an underdrive pulley? You do realize that that will put the output of the alternator outside of the scope of it's normal output, possibly damaging both itself and the rest of your electrical system, right?
Think about what an underdrive does: You're taking a static input, say 100rpms (this umber is PURELY for argument's sake; not to be used as an actual reading) and you use a pulley that's, say (hell, I dunno), something dumb, like 6% overdrive....
If the alternator is A) already stressed to put out what it SHOULD, and B) puts out 15.7vac, already, underdriving it will force it to put out that 65 more, all the time (16.642vac)! Now... Usings, say an FD 120 alternator, vs. the FC 100 will give you benefits, as soon as it's wired in; no need to push the envelope and try for more.
That is inside of the range to start damaging things (voltage regulator, for one, since it's designed to disallow output charge greater than 15.7vac.
There are quite a few threads about people having voltage regulation problems due to the unstable nature of the RX7 alternator. It's pretty well documented. It's got some issues.
Same mentality when U/Ding a S/C. Varying the pulley diameter will = greater boost numbers. Example: My old 03 Cobra had a 6# pulley on it.... Smaller pulley = 12#... Since the rotating assembly is spinning FASTER (or, in this case, TWICE as fast) it produced more output; same logic as the alt pulley.
Not like you're going to be using an underdrive pulley set, then dropping the tach on your engine.... That's the most common usage on domestics, due to the same issues.
X-Treme Rotories has 'em from $90 per to 450 for the set. If you've got the funds this is the BEST setup to run; like RX7Boy06 said - No slippage!
As far as changing the FD pulley out due to serpentine- vs. V-Belt setups, that only is concerned by way of the pulley's placement. Slipping is the main concern, so getting a good double is the more important clause, in that paragraph. If I pulled alternators off of a dozen cars, could you tell me which ones had V-belts or snakey ones? Nope. All the pullies, FTMP, look the same.
Just outta curiosity: Why would you WANT to run an underdrive pulley? You do realize that that will put the output of the alternator outside of the scope of it's normal output, possibly damaging both itself and the rest of your electrical system, right?
Think about what an underdrive does: You're taking a static input, say 100rpms (this umber is PURELY for argument's sake; not to be used as an actual reading) and you use a pulley that's, say (hell, I dunno), something dumb, like 6% overdrive....
If the alternator is A) already stressed to put out what it SHOULD, and B) puts out 15.7vac, already, underdriving it will force it to put out that 65 more, all the time (16.642vac)! Now... Usings, say an FD 120 alternator, vs. the FC 100 will give you benefits, as soon as it's wired in; no need to push the envelope and try for more.
That is inside of the range to start damaging things (voltage regulator, for one, since it's designed to disallow output charge greater than 15.7vac.
There are quite a few threads about people having voltage regulation problems due to the unstable nature of the RX7 alternator. It's pretty well documented. It's got some issues.
Same mentality when U/Ding a S/C. Varying the pulley diameter will = greater boost numbers. Example: My old 03 Cobra had a 6# pulley on it.... Smaller pulley = 12#... Since the rotating assembly is spinning FASTER (or, in this case, TWICE as fast) it produced more output; same logic as the alt pulley.
Not like you're going to be using an underdrive pulley set, then dropping the tach on your engine.... That's the most common usage on domestics, due to the same issues.
Last edited by TrboSpdAnt; 01-11-11 at 12:29 PM. Reason: Pics!
01-11-11, 03:11 PM
#39
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Well this is what the company I was thinking about getting them from says.
This pulley kit replaces the alternator, the water pump pulley and the main pulley. They free up horsepower (With our SR Underdrive Dual Drive Belt Power Pulleys our Project RX-7 gained 10 horsepower.) due to being 45% lighter than stock and by underdriving the crank shaft pulley, alternator and the water pump to keep down the chance of cavatation.Our SR pulleys are also larger than the competition's pulleys so the fan belts have a larger surface contact area ( so our pulleys _won't slip_ on the fan belt causing your rotary engine to overheat which is very common) Available in black, blue, red and clear anodized hardcoated lightweight and strong 6061-T6 billet aluminum for years of trouble free use. Complete kit with everything needed. A very easy horsepower increase and nice looking addition to your Mazda RX-7. Simple to install with hand tools.
Idk.
This pulley kit replaces the alternator, the water pump pulley and the main pulley. They free up horsepower (With our SR Underdrive Dual Drive Belt Power Pulleys our Project RX-7 gained 10 horsepower.) due to being 45% lighter than stock and by underdriving the crank shaft pulley, alternator and the water pump to keep down the chance of cavatation.Our SR pulleys are also larger than the competition's pulleys so the fan belts have a larger surface contact area ( so our pulleys _won't slip_ on the fan belt causing your rotary engine to overheat which is very common) Available in black, blue, red and clear anodized hardcoated lightweight and strong 6061-T6 billet aluminum for years of trouble free use. Complete kit with everything needed. A very easy horsepower increase and nice looking addition to your Mazda RX-7. Simple to install with hand tools.
Idk.
01-11-11, 04:03 PM
#40
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'Underdriven' has a couple of different meanings. Theirs translates to, 'lower mass, thus less effort to move,' instead of ROTATIONAL under-driving, which has to do with the diameter (as in gearing ratios).
Of course, if the object to get moved is lighter, less work is required to get it moving (think taking a 1000hp engine out of something BEHEMOTH, like a '67 GTX (Big, steel, Plymouth) and dropping it into something like an FC...
Same pouer from the engine, but since the FC weighs a good 3or 4 THOUSAND pounds less than the GTX, it's be much, MUCH faster.
Any way that you can gain (read: recover) power is a plus.
Just remember: You gotta pay to play.
Of course, if the object to get moved is lighter, less work is required to get it moving (think taking a 1000hp engine out of something BEHEMOTH, like a '67 GTX (Big, steel, Plymouth) and dropping it into something like an FC...
Same pouer from the engine, but since the FC weighs a good 3or 4 THOUSAND pounds less than the GTX, it's be much, MUCH faster.
Any way that you can gain (read: recover) power is a plus.
Just remember: You gotta pay to play.
01-11-11, 11:59 PM
#41
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Oh ya. Its way less work for a powerful engine to pull something smaller than it was designed for. Im pinching penies as much as i can. Im still not clearon the fd alt part though. Is it a derect swap or does it require some sort of modification?
01-12-11, 06:07 AM
#42
A FD alternator will bolt right on to either a S4 or S5.
If you have a S5, the wiring is a direct swap/plugs right in, if you're S4, slight mods are required.
The pulley must be swapped in both cases- the FD does not use a v-belt- and because the FD shaft is slightly larger diameter, the FC pulley (which is actually two pieces and a spacer) must be bored out to fit.
If you have a S5, the wiring is a direct swap/plugs right in, if you're S4, slight mods are required.
The pulley must be swapped in both cases- the FD does not use a v-belt- and because the FD shaft is slightly larger diameter, the FC pulley (which is actually two pieces and a spacer) must be bored out to fit.
01-12-11, 09:29 AM
#44
I wish I could save myself.
It's worth noting that there are several alternatives to the FD alternator that are just as easy to install. Many other Mazda models use the same case/frame as the FC/FD, most are rated the same or higher than the 80A FC alt.
Some time spent on the NAPA website will show what to look for.
It's worth noting that there are several alternatives to the FD alternator that are just as easy to install. Many other Mazda models use the same case/frame as the FC/FD, most are rated the same or higher than the 80A FC alt.
Some time spent on the NAPA website will show what to look for.
01-12-11, 03:22 PM
#45
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Hmm. Thanks clocker. I was unaware of the other alt that could be a possibility. So is it safe to do the alt swap without having all the extra load on the electrical system? Or should I wait till I have all the other stuff I said I wanted to put in first?
01-12-11, 03:57 PM
#50