Drift FC.... NA??
06-13-02, 07:07 PM
#26
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Holy **** man you guys have dragged me into this......agian.
first off this.
What wierd insurance tax laws are you talking about??????. I don't know of any wierd laws that would force you to trash your car!!! I have been living in Japan since 1994 and have never experienced this .
If you go to a junker and find a FC that if perfectly good PLEASE tell me about it. People scoop them up fast. Most people who decide to get rid of their FC can sell it that day without having to take it to the junker.
Second lets talk about NA's and drifting.
NA rotarys are abundant in Japan, They were however never a production engine in the FC. They were produce in the SA22C however There are many tuners and private individuals who make NA rotarys 13B included. My Boss at the car shop I work at made a 13B NA and put it in a Honda........this was way before anyone gave a **** about hondas....... the ****** is so fast because the body don't wiegh much at all. I think people who build fast cars would not want to put a NA into a FC because the FC is a brick. They are out there though We also happen to have a tube frame Race Car (RJ) that has a NA 12A in it.
Now onto drifting.
First let me say that Bald tires in the back will not do Jack **** for you! The key to DRIFT is power at the right time and the proper line. This is so with any racing. Bald or low traction tires......better known as UNKO or **** tires will allow the tires to SPIN much easier but will yield you slower speed and makes it easier for you to spin out. Choose a tire that is appropriate for your skill level and power level. The most important thing is a DIFF. then you can have more freedom over what tires you use. Camber in the front is generally a good thing but each driver has thier own preference, the same in the back. The FC is hard to adjust rear camber on even installing the adjustable bar will only yield small amount of adjustment. if you have a good abmont of power (turbo II) then you will want some camber in the back as this will let you have higher speed and keep you from spinning. Toe......Toe in and toe out is something that each driver messes with to see what he likes. To out in the rear will make it somewhat easier to sustain an long drift. Toe in will make it esier to kick the *** end out but requiers a little more to hold it. Toe out in the front will let your wheels turn out a little more making it somewhat harder to spin but harder to control the rest of the time. Toe in makes your car drive straight but don't turn as far as Toe out.
All of these same things apply to all kinds of racing not just drift. There is no magic to drift or some part of setting that makes it happen you have to set the car up to perform the way you like it.
Nobody drifts a NA FC3S in Japan, not that it can't be done but if I was gonna drift a NA car I would get AE86. Then I might put a NA rotary in that body..........hehehehe haul *** and slide sideways......yeah i like that.
first off this.
Don't forget to mention that people who still own an FC must be super enthusiasts because of the weird insurance tax laws. Everyone there buys a new car every 3 or so years because of the weird laws and when you go to the junker you see perfectly good cars sitting around. =(
Um yes i'm japanese and have lived there for periods of time.
Um yes i'm japanese and have lived there for periods of time.
If you go to a junker and find a FC that if perfectly good PLEASE tell me about it. People scoop them up fast. Most people who decide to get rid of their FC can sell it that day without having to take it to the junker.
Second lets talk about NA's and drifting.
NA rotarys are abundant in Japan, They were however never a production engine in the FC. They were produce in the SA22C however There are many tuners and private individuals who make NA rotarys 13B included. My Boss at the car shop I work at made a 13B NA and put it in a Honda........this was way before anyone gave a **** about hondas....... the ****** is so fast because the body don't wiegh much at all. I think people who build fast cars would not want to put a NA into a FC because the FC is a brick. They are out there though We also happen to have a tube frame Race Car (RJ) that has a NA 12A in it.
Now onto drifting.
First let me say that Bald tires in the back will not do Jack **** for you! The key to DRIFT is power at the right time and the proper line. This is so with any racing. Bald or low traction tires......better known as UNKO or **** tires will allow the tires to SPIN much easier but will yield you slower speed and makes it easier for you to spin out. Choose a tire that is appropriate for your skill level and power level. The most important thing is a DIFF. then you can have more freedom over what tires you use. Camber in the front is generally a good thing but each driver has thier own preference, the same in the back. The FC is hard to adjust rear camber on even installing the adjustable bar will only yield small amount of adjustment. if you have a good abmont of power (turbo II) then you will want some camber in the back as this will let you have higher speed and keep you from spinning. Toe......Toe in and toe out is something that each driver messes with to see what he likes. To out in the rear will make it somewhat easier to sustain an long drift. Toe in will make it esier to kick the *** end out but requiers a little more to hold it. Toe out in the front will let your wheels turn out a little more making it somewhat harder to spin but harder to control the rest of the time. Toe in makes your car drive straight but don't turn as far as Toe out.
All of these same things apply to all kinds of racing not just drift. There is no magic to drift or some part of setting that makes it happen you have to set the car up to perform the way you like it.
Nobody drifts a NA FC3S in Japan, not that it can't be done but if I was gonna drift a NA car I would get AE86. Then I might put a NA rotary in that body..........hehehehe haul *** and slide sideways......yeah i like that.
06-13-02, 09:08 PM
#28
Now with more 1st Gen!
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Ranzo: wooohooo... thanks man! 
I have a turbo swap in my future, but until then, I want to start learning how to drift... thanks for the info, bud.
I have a turbo swap in my future, but until then, I want to start learning how to drift... thanks for the info, bud.
06-13-02, 09:13 PM
#29
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Originally posted by Maeda
Don't forget to mention that people who still own an FC must be super enthusiasts because of the weird insurance tax laws. Everyone there buys a new car every 3 or so years because of the weird laws and when you go to the junker you see perfectly good cars sitting around. =(
Um yes i'm japanese and have lived there for periods of time.
Don't forget to mention that people who still own an FC must be super enthusiasts because of the weird insurance tax laws. Everyone there buys a new car every 3 or so years because of the weird laws and when you go to the junker you see perfectly good cars sitting around. =(
Um yes i'm japanese and have lived there for periods of time.
that I've ever heard.
06-13-02, 09:20 PM
#30
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Originally posted by Ranzo
First let me say that Bald tires in the back will not do Jack **** for you! The key to DRIFT is power at the right time and the proper line. This is so with any racing. Bald or low traction tires......better known as UNKO or **** tires will allow the tires to SPIN much easier but will yield you slower speed and makes it easier for you to spin out. Choose a tire that is appropriate for your skill level and power level.
First let me say that Bald tires in the back will not do Jack **** for you! The key to DRIFT is power at the right time and the proper line. This is so with any racing. Bald or low traction tires......better known as UNKO or **** tires will allow the tires to SPIN much easier but will yield you slower speed and makes it easier for you to spin out. Choose a tire that is appropriate for your skill level and power level.
I use bald tires to drift. This is MY recommendation, and in no way the "special" key to drifting. It DOES help if the car that is drifted does not have a lot of power. If you do drift a high HP car(FD comes to mind), get good tires! Learn how to apply the gas/e-brake to get around turns...this is how I drift.
If you DO drift with bald tires, do not high speed drift i.e. more than 70 km/h. I normally only slow drift, which to me seems less strenuous on the car, and only really kills your tires/clutch.
06-14-02, 12:25 AM
#32
Senior Member
I use bald tires to drift. This is MY recommendation, and in no way the "special" key to drifting. It DOES help if the car that is drifted does not have a lot of power. If you do drift a high HP car(FD comes to mind), get good tires! Learn how to apply the gas/e-brake to get around turns...this is how I drift.
If you DO drift with bald tires, do not high speed drift i.e. more than 70 km/h. I normally only slow drift, which to me seems less strenuous on the car, and only really kills your tires/clutch.
My car has 350hp well 308 at the wheels right now. that is high power I think. Any turbo FC will eat up a set of bald tires. Why is it that you only do "slow drift"? The higher your speed the more points you will get in competion. If proper acceleration(not excessive) is applied your tires will last most of the day, normally I get 2-3 circuit runs out of a set of new tires plus 2-3 gymkhana runs. The fronts I always Always buy new as understeer is a killer and they last most of the year.
I in the past used cheap tires, used ones , ones I found in the dumpster at the garage or hobby shop wherever. 17" tires are expensive and using used tires I went through 2 sets of rear tires at every circuit. After learning a lot I found that new tires work better and in the long run cost roughly the same as buying 4-5 sets of used ones and I don't have to spend so much time on the tire machine. Don't get me wrong I do use old tires when I find them just as backups and **** but for serious adventures I use good tires.
06-14-02, 03:16 AM
#33
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rico05: Don't despair. Your car has plenty of potential. Nothing that seat time can't fix. There is no singular car or combination of parts that make a car "right" for drifting. People place too much emphasis on the car and the parts on it. Why? Because that's easier to change than being more skilled behind the wheel. Sure, there is stuff to buy that can make a car handle better or this and that. But without a driver, all the car does is sit there and look pretty. Your N/A should be OK. Run with what you brung and all that. With a good LSD, some decent shock/spings, and those rear steer eliminator bushings and you should be in business. Just get out there and practice. Then you'll see what flies and doesn't. Just don't waste your time trying to reinvent the wheel. All the techniques are tried and true. A powerful car and all the expensive goodies are cool, but not needed. Seat time is.
06-14-02, 03:38 AM
#34
rico05,
i drive a 91 NA and i use it to drift at drift events in cali. it is an EXTREAMLY good car to learn drift! mainly because of the near perfect weight distribution. at first i was having a hard time getting the rear to come out but after lots of practice i can get it out whenever i want and hold it for as long as i like. the NA might be slower than the T2, but the throttle response is much better which is important during drifts. using the accelerator to control how much the car rotates. when u begine to drift, use some cheap al season tires in the rear, but ALWAYS good tires in the front. this will help you get more comfortable in going sideways. then when ur ready to speed up, go with better tires. i made a mistake of putting on good tires to learn, therefor it was a pain to drift.
try not to use the e brake or clutch to induce drift. try heal-toe and weight transfer. it will take lots of stress off ur drive train.
lastly, i have a LSD in my car made by mazdaspeed. when it was first installed, i noticed the car had much more grip and could take corners at much higher speeds, but no drift! later i found out that that is what an LSD does. when i eventually got the tail out, it was much easier to control than b4, mainly because of the rear wheels spinning at near same speed. the car becomes very predictable.
try to practice on the track or in some open parking lot. and remember GOOD FRONT TIRES! my 91 is in heaven now because of cheap tires in the front =.( good luck with drifting and have fun!
i drive a 91 NA and i use it to drift at drift events in cali. it is an EXTREAMLY good car to learn drift! mainly because of the near perfect weight distribution. at first i was having a hard time getting the rear to come out but after lots of practice i can get it out whenever i want and hold it for as long as i like. the NA might be slower than the T2, but the throttle response is much better which is important during drifts. using the accelerator to control how much the car rotates. when u begine to drift, use some cheap al season tires in the rear, but ALWAYS good tires in the front. this will help you get more comfortable in going sideways. then when ur ready to speed up, go with better tires. i made a mistake of putting on good tires to learn, therefor it was a pain to drift.
try not to use the e brake or clutch to induce drift. try heal-toe and weight transfer. it will take lots of stress off ur drive train.
lastly, i have a LSD in my car made by mazdaspeed. when it was first installed, i noticed the car had much more grip and could take corners at much higher speeds, but no drift! later i found out that that is what an LSD does. when i eventually got the tail out, it was much easier to control than b4, mainly because of the rear wheels spinning at near same speed. the car becomes very predictable.
try to practice on the track or in some open parking lot. and remember GOOD FRONT TIRES! my 91 is in heaven now because of cheap tires in the front =.( good luck with drifting and have fun!
06-14-02, 07:16 AM
#35
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Originally posted by Ranzo
First Bald tires are dangerous and some circuits will not let you on with them. Especially at our Gymkhana. Low traction tires will help when you are beginning but you will soon learn that good tires give you better control in any situation hence my recommendation. If bald tires work for you then thats Great! But as you mentioned if you do use them it will slow you down because you cant do high speed drift, exactly what I said.
My car has 350hp well 308 at the wheels right now. that is high power I think. Any turbo FC will eat up a set of bald tires. Why is it that you only do "slow drift"? The higher your speed the more points you will get in competion. If proper acceleration(not excessive) is applied your tires will last most of the day, normally I get 2-3 circuit runs out of a set of new tires plus 2-3 gymkhana runs. The fronts I always Always buy new as understeer is a killer and they last most of the year.
I in the past used cheap tires, used ones , ones I found in the dumpster at the garage or hobby shop wherever. 17" tires are expensive and using used tires I went through 2 sets of rear tires at every circuit. After learning a lot I found that new tires work better and in the long run cost roughly the same as buying 4-5 sets of used ones and I don't have to spend so much time on the tire machine. Don't get me wrong I do use old tires when I find them just as backups and **** but for serious adventures I use good tires.
First Bald tires are dangerous and some circuits will not let you on with them. Especially at our Gymkhana. Low traction tires will help when you are beginning but you will soon learn that good tires give you better control in any situation hence my recommendation. If bald tires work for you then thats Great! But as you mentioned if you do use them it will slow you down because you cant do high speed drift, exactly what I said.
My car has 350hp well 308 at the wheels right now. that is high power I think. Any turbo FC will eat up a set of bald tires. Why is it that you only do "slow drift"? The higher your speed the more points you will get in competion. If proper acceleration(not excessive) is applied your tires will last most of the day, normally I get 2-3 circuit runs out of a set of new tires plus 2-3 gymkhana runs. The fronts I always Always buy new as understeer is a killer and they last most of the year.
I in the past used cheap tires, used ones , ones I found in the dumpster at the garage or hobby shop wherever. 17" tires are expensive and using used tires I went through 2 sets of rear tires at every circuit. After learning a lot I found that new tires work better and in the long run cost roughly the same as buying 4-5 sets of used ones and I don't have to spend so much time on the tire machine. Don't get me wrong I do use old tires when I find them just as backups and **** but for serious adventures I use good tires.
To be honest, I only slow drift because I'm "scared"! Even I'm still learning to control the fast drifting, and sometimes....well, I've learned to change out tension rods in silvia's VERY quickly(since I've broken about a dozen of these.) I use used tires or bald tires because I've got a set of my drift rims(I'd hate to **** up my OZ racings). I don't drift anymore(the FD's too expensive to fix if I break
) I used to drift my N/A FC in the states, and then my TII FC here in Okinawa. With all the Power that sucker had...it was EASY to drift
06-14-02, 08:11 AM
#36
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Ok, so good shocks, good springs, toe eliminator bushings, and an LSD is a good place to start? Then comes tires, camber plates, and sway bars. Finish it up with bushings, all the time learning how to drive better. I need to get the body damage fixed first, but in the mean time, I can sure stand for some more wheel time. I have only attempted drift once, and ended up in a drainage ditch having done a 180!!!!
06-16-02, 07:10 PM
#37
Senior Member
Coolness, I think you have grasped what we are all saying even through the clutter.
Seat time is the best thing you can get and best of all its relatively cheap. Have fun and know your limits.
Seat time is the best thing you can get and best of all its relatively cheap.
Have fun and know your limits.
06-17-02, 11:28 PM
#39
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Is eliminating the rear-steer a must? I understand that predictability is key but with practice I would imagine one would learn where to expect the rear toe transition and could possibly use it to their advantage. Timed properly, would it be possible for the quicker turn-in to be used to "flick" the back end out and then the transition would decrease the amount of opposite lock required to keep the car in line?
I'm just learning about drifting so I could be utterly confused. I just think the passive rear-steer system is a pretty slick idea and it must have been developed for a reason.
I'm just learning about drifting so I could be utterly confused. I just think the passive rear-steer system is a pretty slick idea and it must have been developed for a reason.
06-18-02, 07:34 PM
#40
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It was developed for a purpose, but that was with the average Joe Schmuckatelli in mind. Not pushing it beyond those limits. I still have mine in (I have the parts but am too lazy ) unfortunately. I have a good feel for them, but don't like it all the same. Sloppy feeling. At autoX I can get the back to power oversteer/snap oversteer over and over through a slalom without loosing it. Basically fishtailing repeatedly without spinning out. I had a buddy in my car when I did this (Rotortuner on this forum) at a practice event and for the life of him he didn't know how I didn't take out any cones doing this. Everytime he thought is was going to go too wide. That's just how these bushing make the car feel. Bear in mind these bushings do not work like they did when they were new. This is another good reason to replace them. Old rubber bushings are useless for the most part. Poly are cheap to buy, but a lot of work to put in. DIY folks.
) unfortunately. I have a good feel for them, but don't like it all the same. Sloppy feeling. At autoX I can get the back to power oversteer/snap oversteer over and over through a slalom without loosing it. Basically fishtailing repeatedly without spinning out. I had a buddy in my car when I did this (Rotortuner on this forum) at a practice event and for the life of him he didn't know how I didn't take out any cones doing this. Everytime he thought is was going to go too wide. That's just how these bushing make the car feel. Bear in mind these bushings do not work like they did when they were new. This is another good reason to replace them. Old rubber bushings are useless for the most part. Poly are cheap to buy, but a lot of work to put in. DIY folks.
09-13-02, 12:09 PM
#41
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well i dont have a rotary as such buy my gemini sporting a turbo on the stock 1.6l will chomp a set of rears in 10 laps
mainly casue of my diff setup (locked tighter than a nunnery)
mainly casue of my diff setup (locked tighter than a nunnery)
09-13-02, 12:33 PM
#42
Another little bit of info regarding suspension is that Tein makes a drift specific full coilover set. Its called the HE's. Look into that if your gonna go all out or ive heard pretty good things about Jic Magic but I dont know if they have a specific drift coilover setup.
09-13-02, 12:47 PM
#43
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if its as all possible remove rear steering because as some of u might know nissans silvias have hicas 4 wheels steer which all jap drifters unplug becasue uit maked the car un stable mid drift
so if u get tid of it itll be a bonus
so if u get tid of it itll be a bonus
09-14-02, 11:41 AM
#44
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Me at Summit Point back in July. Totally stock. 18 or so psi rear tires. 50+psi front. ***** to the walls into turn 4, deep turn, jsut when the car beings to understeer, nail the brakes AND the gas. The stopping of the front of the car combined with the rear ends desire to walk around when you nail the brakes in a turn combined with the nailing the gas creates a nice drift....here I was late into transition and the car was jsut starting to come around.
Drifiting rules....jsut keep it safe.
Drifiting rules....jsut keep it safe.
09-14-02, 01:36 PM
#48
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Read the original post. Totally stock. On this weekend, I did drop the mufflers for a lil weight savings and flow. But thats it. Drifiting is all about vehicle control and understanding basic physics (specifically momentum and inertia).