personally true dual pipes would be the best way for an n/a at least. turbo is a whole nother story you want the shortest largest pipe on the turbo. and remember the more pipe you have on your car the more weight

 

by way of mufflers i think the flowmasters sound the best above 4k but below that they sound like absolute crap up top there one of the most amazing screams an engine makes, and try and stay away from mufflers where the material probably doesnt have the greatest flame or heat resistance cause the egt out of a rotary can get hot espically when your shooting flames all the time

 

Absolutely right, my bad! That was just a typo, I wrote that very late at night.

 

It doesn't matter what car you're talking about, you're still wrong. If the pipes are correctly sized (i.e. big enough), a dual system can outflow a single because the restriction through two large pipes is so much less than a single flowing the same volume. The benefit of two pipes more than outweighs the negative effect on the Y. It's not rocket science.

BTW, do you calculate the flows and pressure drops through pipe and duct systems for a living?

 

Man you are dense!

My point is 2 equal pipes that are the same size and same bends, the 2 muffler system with a Y will flow less.

I am begining to think you just heard from someone else that a dual isn't bad, but you really don't know what you are talking about. because you are arguing over details and even though you know what i mean.


-Zach

 

I use a duct-u-lator or crane tech paper 401

 

zyounker - I don't think you realize what NZConvertible does for a living. I suggest you look at his profile under the occupation line. You'll soon realize you are having a debate with a professional that deals with stuff that flows on a daily basis. He knows what he is talking about.

 

Well, he may know what he is talking about, but i do too..

I am not arguing with that he is saying, but i am arguing that a single of the same spec on a turbo car will flow more.


I want that simple sentece to be acknowledged so that people know. I see way to many people saying half truths here..


A duel muffler can be made to make as good of power if designed correctly, but a single of the same spec will make more power and will flow better on a turbo car. and the cork sport single is supose to make more power then the RB one.


-Zach

 

just because my profile says geek (or root now) doesn't mean i don't know what i am talking about.


-Zach

 

Ive heard em both and the RB full exhaust is very streetable but the corksport is VERY LOUD.

 

WHEW, I HAVE READ ENOUGH OF THIS! MANUFACTURERS USE FAKE DUALS TO SELL CARS. PERIOD. THE FEWER THE BENDS, TURNS, AND SPLITS THE HIGHER THE FLOW. PERIOD. ON TOP OF FLOW BENEFITS THE SINGLE UNITS ARE SIGNIFICANTLY LIGHTER THAN DUALS. IF THE OUTLET IS ON THE PASSENGER SIDE THAN IT HELPS CREATE A MORE EVEN WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION TOO. I DON'T CARE IF A RICE BOY HAS A SYSTEM THAT LOOKS LIKE MINE IF MINE WORKS WELL. AESTHETICALLY SPEAKING WHAT IS FAST IS RACY AND WHAT IS RACY USUALLY LOOKS COOL. THOSE ARE THE GUIDLINES I GO BY WHEN CONSIDERING WHETHER A CAR OR AN PART OF A CAR LOOKS GOOD.
AND BY THE WAY, I THINK TWO BIG SHINY MUFFLERS IS AS RICY AS ANYTHING ELSE RICY. IT JUST SAYS OOOOOOHHH LOOK AT ME. HOWEVER ALL OF THE RB DUAL SYSTEMS LOOK PRETTY SWEET. ONE THING BAD ABOUT THE SINGLE UNIT IS THAT THEY ARE LOUD AS CRAP AND I THINK THAT IS THE ONLY REASON MAZDA GAVE THE SECOND GEN DUAL EXHAUST. IF THE THIRD GEN WAS LOUD AS CRAP IT WOULD HAVE DUAL TOO BUT IT IS TURBOCHARGED AND TURBOCHARGED CARS ARE ALREADY BAFFLED B/C OF THE TURBO AND HENCE QUIETER. N/A ROTARIES ARE LOUD AS CRAP THOUGH. SO THAT'S THE WAY I UNDERSTAND IT.
THESE ARE JUST MY THOUGHTS.
JEREMY

 

Really? Damn, I'd better go tell my boss all the work I've been doing must be wrong because some kid on the forum told me I was dense... This statement proves you don't actually know anything about gas flows in pipe systems, so I don't see any point in continuing to argue with you. If you can't accept the advice and info of others, why're you even here? No, I worked this out for myself. You've the one who thinks a Y in the pipe causes a massive restriction, and two large pipes won't flow as well as one. You're wrong on both counts, and won't believe anyone trying to correct you.


jeremy1, dude DONT YELL!

 

even if the exhausts are the same Diameter the single will flow more exhaust for one reason.. heat retention. warmer the temp faster the moving molecules.

so 3" single with a 3" through muffler will out flow a 3" dual to 3" muffler because the gases have less surface area to heat and causing the molecules to flow faster through the single pipe.

I'm not saying that a dual is restrictive but a single should flow more.

 

Don't confuse velocity with mass flow. The velocity drops as temp drops because the the gases occupy less volume. That doesn't necessarily mean the mass flow drops also. Maybe it does, doubt it'll be a small amount. No way. The temp may make a small difference, but you've just halved the restriction in that part of the system by going to two equal sized pipes!

 

*stands corrected and see's points to both*

I'm no physic major. nor am I chemist.

just thought i'ld put a $0.02 about gas temps to mix it up hehe

 

Well, you obviously have problems NZ.. I don't disagree that a dual can be made to flow as well, but any type of restriction (a Y pipe) is still a restriction. If you disagree with that, then maybe you should tell your boss to re-check all of your work..

The difference between these two systems is probably very small, BUT the Cork Sports exhaust is suppose to make better power. (in the upper RPM range) because i hope we can agree that restriction, is not always a bad thing. because the RB one probably has a better torque curve..



-Zach

 

Fart Can?

Fast Neon is an oxymoron, no wait a neon is a boxy moron, oh forget it simpsons did it.
Brrrrrrmpftbrrrrrrrrrrrrscreeee(sound is made through a megaphone emitted from under the hood electronically)

Your blow off valve shouldn't be on a tape!

 

Has any one with true duals, without a balance tube noticed a loss in mid range torque? I had a prob with my TransAM, it needed a balance tube. No more TA no more prob

 

Yes, you will lose torque with a true dual, because it flows so much more and there is less back pressure.


But it can also be caused by having your duals the wrong length..


-Zach

 

Right, right That was definetly the prob on the TA. The RX-7 with a header would only be different by what 4 inches? I still think a balance tube would be safe if not just to releive strain on the eccentric shaft. I'm Mr. Worring guy.
Plus you can't float a valve in a rotary.

 

First I'm dense, now I have problems? You're taking this all very personally... You did before... I never said it wasn't a restriction. But restrictions in pipe systems are cumalative (that means they all add together), so you have to look at the whole system, not just the Y you're obsessing about. Two 2.5" pipes have considerably less restriction that a single 3" flowing the same volume (about one third less in fact), and even though some of that advantage is lost in the Y, the nett result is a system with less restriction. This is not a difficult concept to grasp y'know.

 

ok, you run your "dual" mufflers.. it is your choice.. we are getting no where here because you are just being dificult.

So i am done with it. I think most people that read this will realize what you are doing and that the CP single will outflow the RB dual.. and that goes for most systems available.. the single will flow more..


-Zach

 

zyounker - Take for instance I had two CP single exhaust, one for the left side and one for the right side. We cut the mounting flange off the front of both exhaust and fabricate a Y-pipe of the same ID as the CP exhaust. Take that exhaust which is now a dual muffler catback system and bolt it up the whatever you have hanging under your car be it a Racing Beat header or just a replacement down pipe on a TII. Are you telling me that the dual muffler system we just made is going to flow less than the single system?

Some reason I just don't see it happening. Depending on the starting pipe size we could even put 1/2" smaller pipe from the Y-pipe to the muffler and it will still out flow the single. Not that anyone cares but I'm with NZ on this one. Not only from an engineering point of view but a common sense view point, the dual is capable of more, all things alike(and some things un-alike).

 

See that is what you don't get. on a turbo car the less restriction the better.. You already have a restriction (the turbo) so the straightest largest diamiter pipe without restriction will be best. Adding a Y pipe to a turbo car IS a restriction (although not a whole lot)

So if both systems are 3 inches all the way back, and one splits into 2 mufflers. The one without the split will flow better, because it has less restriction. This is assuming the mufflers are the same too.


-Zach

 

if you build 2 systems from scratch. And build them both for the best power (Tune them both for the best they can do). The single will outflow the dual muffler on a turbo car.

Come on people this isn't hard.. And NZ and i do not actually disagree.. You can make a very good dual, that will flow very well. And most people would be happy with it.. most of it is just the preference of look... BUT someone looking for every bit of power, should probably go with a single.


-Zach